Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#402
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
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#402
Nat2019 said:
Hi there, I have read alot of your comments over the internet about people who dont believe in once saved always saved. You think they are false prophets, people who believe they "earn" there salvation by good works. Have you done enough study on the theology of Jacobus Arminius? No where has anyone stated they are saved by "good" works alone? So why do you continue to make accusations about peoples beliefs when you clearly dont have a clue about what they truly believe, because you only want to view everything from your own point of view. We believe we are saved by a COMPLETE FAITH, Just like Abraham, not the faith of demons- faith alone. The issue isnt "WORKS". Its your view of FAITH. You only think believing in a God will saved you and believing in his sacrifice will save you- You know the Jews and devil also believed Jesus died on the cross? Does they mean they were automatically saved because they believe or saw Jesus crificified?. God only chose you and a number of people as the "elect" for no apparent reason? Seems to me like you are similar to Jehovah witnesses with 144 000. You and your calvinist brothers and sisters are Gods chosen people. If he sacrifice was only for you, why did he bother dying?

So I will tell you now he died for the "Whole world" and also loved the "Whole World".

You judge people who dont follow once saved- always saved calling them false prophets yet you get your beliefs from a man called JOHN CALVIN, a so called Christian who thought he was on the road to heaven, while torturing an innocent person with different religious beliefs (burning them on green wood, so they had excruciating pain and slow death). Yes of Course no works needed for you or John Calvin. No Good works for John Calvin because God never see his evil behavior, because he had the imputed righteousness of God, he was a chosen "EVIL PERSON" By the God you follow. Poor Michael Servitus cruelly burnt alive by a wicked man who was apparently saved in your eyes because he is Gods chosen son, like you. So before you pass judgment look into your own belief system. If you agree with once saved always saved you agree with John Calvin's theology/doctrine.
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You can read all you want and it will not change the following factual truths and or biblical conclusions...

a. One either believes in a 100% Christ/faith based eternal salvation

or

b. By default they believe in a faith PLUS false gospel that does not save.

There is but one CORRECT MESSAGE of salvation, not two, three or fifty...any "salvation" that must be maintained, topped off, can be lost, can be forfeit is false and Paul was clear.....they peddle a gospel of a DIFFERENT KIND, IT HAS NO POWER TO SAVE, ALL THAT BELIEVE IT ARE BEWITCHED and FOOLISH.....and by deductive truth...ALL that peddle said false gospels are deceivers, false, not being led of God, contrary to the truth and leading people to the pit!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#403
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
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#403
Chester said:
Well, no one trusting in their own works and maintaining their own salvation is going to make it to heaven, so by what you say above I guess you think I will be spending eternity in hell fire . . .

I do not agree theologically with those who believe in OSAS, but I am not going to say that all of them will be in hell fire.
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Like I said....if you do not believe in eternal security you believe it can be lost and if you believe it can be lost you believe you must do something to maintain it.....a works based false gospel....

How is it you cannot grasp this truth?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#404
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
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#404
Chester said:
And it is neither "faith alone" nor is it "faith and works"

Salvation is as Paul says "by grace through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God"
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This reeks of confusion and error!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#405
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
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#405
Nat2019 said:
Yes we are secure in Christ but only if we remain with him to the very end- Those who ENDURE TO THE END SHALL BE SAVED. Hebrews 5:9 Eternal Salvation is for those who OBEY. So we must resist sin to the point of death to receive the crown of life.
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False......and you are using the exact verbiage of a previously banned member that was banned twice.....
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#406
#406
Chester said:
So we agree on most everything . . . :)

You are worried about me because I might quit having faith in Jesus and thus might "lose" my salvation! You think I should believe in OSAS so that I have assurance of salvation, and rest, and peace in Jesus!

But I have no worry about that: my faith is secure: I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day!

I am worried about you because if your security is in OSAS, then you cannot have assurance of salvation. If you should start sinning too much, and your works do not match up to your faith, then OSAS people will tell you that were never born again. So if you believe in OSAS you must maintain good works in order to have assurance of salvation.

Now if your belief is focused on Jesus Christ and his death and resurrection, then your faith is secure! (No matter whether you believe in OSAS or whether you do not believe in OSAS).

But from what I perceive I think your faith is in Jesus Christ, not in OSAS - so I think we both have eternal life! :) (y)
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I think you have misunderstood what I have written, no one receives assurance from the doctrine of OSAS, the assurance of salvation, apart from works, is from Jesus and what he accomplished on our behalf.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#407
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
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#407
Chester said:
And it is neither "faith alone" nor is it "faith and works"

Salvation is as Paul says "by grace through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God"
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Grace is from God while Faith is from us.

If you prefer, I can put

grace thru faith alone or
grace thru faith and works. 🤗
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#408
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#408
Guojing said:
Grace is from God while Faith is from us.

If you prefer, I can put

grace thru faith alone or
grace thru faith and works. 🤗
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False again Gongshow.....faith is from God and dealt in measure to men....you seem to miss the mark on everything!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#410
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#410
Chester said:
I prefer what Paul said in Eph. 2:8: "by grace through faith"
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Yep....and that NOT OF YOURSELVES is directed at the faith that saves.....literally IN THE GRACE YOU ARE having been saved OUT OF FAITH and that NOT OF YOURSELVES, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD, and not of works lest any man should boast....

It is all Jesus or it is fraudulent....
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#411
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#411
Chester said:
I prefer what Paul said in Eph. 2:8: "by grace through faith"
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So the rest of my Jews in the Passover night example illustrate how, depending on which salvation doctrine you have, in the end, both first born are still saved.

But one family enjoyed the night, the other didn't.
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#412
May 23, 2016
4,275
1,410
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#412
dcontroversal said:
Yep....and that NOT OF YOURSELVES is directed at the faith that saves.....literally IN THE GRACE YOU ARE having been saved OUT OF FAITH and that NOT OF YOURSELVES, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD, and not of works lest any man should boast....

It is all Jesus or it is fraudulent....
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Amen! I agree with you on that! Praise the Lord!
 
N

Nat2019

Active member
#413
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
#413
dcontroversal said:
False......and you are using the exact verbiage of a previously banned member that was banned twice.....
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Hi there why should a person be banned for talking about the bible?. Isnt this a forum where we discuss the bible. You need to realise they're are people with different beliefs than you, who read the bible and you need to expect that other peoples views may not be like yours. I know your probably not open to others sharing their own view of the bible. It seems like the only view that matters is yours:(
 
N

Nat2019

Active member
#414
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
#414
dcontroversal said:
You can read all you want and it will not change the following factual truths and or biblical conclusions...

a. One either believes in a 100% Christ/faith based eternal salvation

or

b. By default they believe in a faith PLUS false gospel that does not save.

There is but one CORRECT MESSAGE of salvation, not two, three or fifty...any "salvation" that must be maintained, topped off, can be lost, can be forfeit is false and Paul was clear.....they peddle a gospel of a DIFFERENT KIND, IT HAS NO POWER TO SAVE, ALL THAT BELIEVE IT ARE BEWITCHED and FOOLISH.....and by deductive truth...ALL that peddle said false gospels are deceivers, false, not being led of God, contrary to the truth and leading people to the pit!
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Your entitled to your own opinion:). But it's your own personal opinion. But I will let you have one:)
 
N

Nat2019

Active member
#415
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
#415
Nat2019 said:
Your entitled to your own opinion:). But it's your own personal opinion. But I will let you have one:)
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Dont worry I won't BAN you for having your own opinion:). Because I will show you respect as a human being:)
 
N

Nat2019

Active member
#417
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
#417
dcontroversal said:
False again Gongshow.....faith is from God and dealt in measure to men....you seem to miss the mark on everything!
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No where in the bible does it say you are saved by the term "Faith alone". It says Abraham was justified by a "COMPLETE" faith meaning Faith that produces good works.
 
N

Nat2019

Active member
#418
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
#418
Nat2019 said:
Hi there why should a person be banned for talking about the bible?. Isnt this a forum where we discuss the bible. You need to realise they're are people with different beliefs than you, who read the bible and you need to expect that other peoples views may not be like yours. I know your probably not open to others sharing their own view of the bible. It seems like the only view that matters is yours:(
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Like if you believe everyone should have "freedom" of speech about there religious beliefs without getting banned by this man:). All people deserve the right to have their own beliefs without being bullied:(. Let's have a discussion and respect each others beliefs:)
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#419
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#419
Nat2019 said:
Hi there why should a person be banned for talking about the bible?. Isnt this a forum where we discuss the bible. You need to realise they're are people with different beliefs than you, who read the bible and you need to expect that other peoples views may not be like yours. I know your probably not open to others sharing their own view of the bible. It seems like the only view that matters is yours:(
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Maybe you cannot understand English....Quote me saying someone should be banned please!
 
N

Nat2019

Active member
#420
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
#420
dcontroversal said:
This reeks of confusion and error!
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1 Timothy 4:1, NIV: "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."
 
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