Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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What’s wrong with this sentence besides everything?
Rom 5:6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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What about the scripture saith not the Greek says? In order to be justified, you have to believe in Jesus.

Romans 3:24-26 says:

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Your statement is right backwards; In order to believe in Jesus, you first have to be justified and that was accomplished by Jesus on the cross. Your scripture references support the fact that a person is justified (made innocent) before he believes. It does not say "justified if they will believe, but justifier of those who are believers."
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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Please do NOT put words in my mouth. I did not say Christ died for only believers.

It's as if Christ paid for EVERY room in a massive Ritz Carlton Hotel. It's paid for. Done deal. IT IS FINISHED!
And everyone is invited to come and live in that awesome Hotel. But only SOME accept and receive His offer. It DOESN'T mean that He didn't pay for those other rooms that were available to those who didn't come.

THIS parable explains It:

The Parable of the Great Supper
15 Now when one of those who sat at the table with Him heard these things, he said to Him, “Blessed is he who shall eat [e]bread in the kingdom of God!”

16 Then He said to him, “A certain man gave a great supper and invited many, 17 and sent his servant at supper time to say to those who were invited, ‘Come, for all things are now ready.’ 18 But they all with one accord began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a piece of ground, and I must go and see it. I ask you to have me excused.’ 19 And another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to test them. I ask you to have me excused.’ 20 Still another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’ 21 So that servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house, being angry, said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in here the poor and the [f]maimed and the lame and the blind.’ 22 And the servant said, ‘Master, it is done as you commanded, and still there is room.’ 23 Then the master said to the servant, ‘Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. 24 For I say to you that none of those men who were invited shall taste my supper.’ ”
Bad example of Christ's death on the cross with the hotel story. Jesus said he would not lose any that he died for. Your scripture reference is talking about being fed in the church, which is called "the Kingdom of God". It is not talking about eternal heaven.
 

MendedSoul

Well-known member
Sep 10, 2019
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"If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us" 2 Timothy 2:12 KJV

What part of this Verse do you not understand? I myself am 100 %ly sure that salvation loss is possible.[/QUOTE]

That is saying if you deny what Christ has done for you pertinent to His death, burial, and resurrection for your the sake of your salvation, then He will deny you before the Father. It doesn't have anything to do with losing your salvation brother.
 

TooFastTurtle

Active member
Apr 10, 2019
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Jesus did receive him with open arms, but Peter also repented. Jesus and Paul told us "let no man deceive you". I am sorry, but if there was no possibility of apostasy, which did they bother warning us?
Amen.

If there is no chance of apostasy, all the warnings about departing from the faith, departing from the living God and falling away are meaningless. Warnings against deception are pointless, WHO CARES if you are deceived in the OSAS scheme of things? You are still saved.

Consider this as well: In order to DEPART from the living God, don't you first need to be there? In order to depart from the faith don't you need to be in it first?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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"If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us" 2 Timothy 2:12 KJV

What part of this Verse do you not understand? I myself am 100 %ly sure that salvation loss is possible.
That is saying if you deny what Christ has done for you pertinent to His death, burial, and resurrection for your the sake of your salvation, then He will deny you before the Father. It doesn't have anything to do with losing your salvation brother.[/QUOTE]
We are put in Christ in the new birth, once you are born, you can not become unborn. If you read the rest of Timothy you will see where Jesus says that he can not deny himself (within us).
 

MendedSoul

Well-known member
Sep 10, 2019
430
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That is saying if you deny what Christ has done for you pertinent to His death, burial, and resurrection for your the sake of your salvation, then He will deny you before the Father. It doesn't have anything to do with losing your salvation brother.
We are put in Christ in the new birth, once you are born, you can not become unborn. If you read the rest of Timothy you will see where Jesus says that he can not deny himself (within us).[/QUOTE]

Yes once saved always saved. I meant He will deny one who refuses to accept Jesus Christ as their savior. Not sure if what I said was confusing.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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We are put in Christ in the new birth, once you are born, you can not become unborn. If you read the rest of Timothy you will see where Jesus says that he can not deny himself (within us).
Yes once saved always saved. I meant He will deny one who refuses to accept Jesus Christ as their savior. Not sure if what I said was confusing.[/QUOTE]
Accepting Jesus as your Savior is not the cause of (requirement) our eternal salvation, but the affects of being already saved eternally (born again). John 12:47, And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not, for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 1 Cor 2:14, The natural man, before he is born again, will not accept Jesus.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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But can you die again?

The Israelites were saved, but didnt make it to the promised land.
Not quite correct. Israel was elect but not all believed and entered the promised land. A whole generation perished in the wilderness because of unbelief.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,782
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But can you die again?

The Israelites were saved, but didnt make it to the promised land.
If you are going to use that as your criteria that the saved can be eternally lost, then you have to admit that Moses isn't saved either, because the Lord did not allow him to enter the Promise Land.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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The promised land was not eternal heaven.
FYI there is a strong case to be made that Joshua's conquest of the Land of Promise was a symbolic microcosm of the Greater Joshua Jesus conquering the entire planet earth and the demonic powers and principalities thereof.

Just a thought to dial in your perspective. And yes I am a pre-trib rapture futurist.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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We are put in Christ in the new birth, once you are born, you can not become unborn. If you read the rest of Timothy you will see where Jesus says that he can not deny himself (within us).
Yes once saved always saved. I meant He will deny one who refuses to accept Jesus Christ as their savior. Not sure if what I said was confusing.[/QUOTE]
You are quoting me as saying something that I did not say. That was not my post, but someone else's. Post# 3,327
 

MendedSoul

Well-known member
Sep 10, 2019
430
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Yes once saved always saved. I meant He will deny one who refuses to accept Jesus Christ as their savior. Not sure if what I said was confusing.
You are quoting me as saying something that I did not say. That was not my post, but someone else's. Post# 3,327[/QUOTE]

Yes the quotes were getting switched, as did yours with mine. Wasn't on purpose
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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You are quoting me as saying something that I did not say. That was not my post, but someone else's. Post# 3,327
Yes the quotes were getting switched, as did yours with mine. Wasn't on purpose[/QUOTE]
Ok, Thanks for responding.
 

Josefnospam

Senior Member
May 29, 2014
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GOD gives eternal life and this thru his son. You either believe this or you do not. Those who believe Jesus is the son of God receive eternal life and those who dont dont.

He that has the son has LIFE and he that has not the son has not life. 1 John 5:11 I hope you have eternal life and belong to him. But we don't debate if you can or cant lose it. Not Profitable for his people
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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GOD gives eternal life and this thru his son. You either believe this or you do not. Those who believe Jesus is the son of God receive eternal life and those who dont dont.

He that has the son has LIFE and he that has not the son has not life. 1 John 5:11 I hope you have eternal life and belong to him. But we don't debate if you can or cant lose it. Not Profitable for his people
So the one who believes in Jesus has eternal life.

The one who does not believe in Jesus does not have eternal life.

So the question is: Do you believe in Jesus? The question is not: Did you in time past believe in Jesus?
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
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hello friend. my heart goes out for you. hope you are doing well God bless you thank you for opening up to us. may God grant you permanent victory.

however i want to ask one question, you said:


about being able to die again and born again again. how do you see these verses going with it:


Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

that looks like if its possible to fall away, its also impossible to come back. how do you or any other conditional security believers interpret those verses?

about being born again and dying again i have this verse, which says its incorruptible seed we are born of not corruptible:

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Hi I haven't been on here for a while thanks for your reply. I will ask some questions.

Can
Didn’t have to read beyond your 1st sentence. Jesus changes us into a NEW creation. Not us following the Word. That is a pure works doctrine. Why do you keep taking the credit for saving us away from Jesus?
Didn’t have to read beyond your 1st sentence. Jesus changes us into a NEW creation. Not us following the Word. That is a pure works doctrine. Why do you keep taking the credit for saving us away from Jesus?
Luke 6:46
“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?

1 John 3:24
Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

John 8:51
Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.”

Luke 11:28
But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

James 1:22-25
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing.

Philippians 2:8
And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming "obedient" to the point of death, even death on a cross.

John 14:23
Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

Romans 6:16
Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?

Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

1 John 3:22
And whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.

James 2:17
So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Whether or not the word "salvation" is involved in these passages these passages still need to be applied as a Christian according to these scriptures. I am not mentioning salvation but that the bible requires all Christians to put the word of God into practice.