Why? I wonder how many will answer?

[Enow]

hi Enow.
i don't know who taught you of a pretrib rapture and a future 1,000 years, but it's not written anywhere in the scriptures.

welcome, btw.
i see you are new

zone

Hi zone,

Thank you for the welcome.

However, it is written in the scripture, but hidden as there are three harvests that makes up the whole in the kingdom of God. A seeker in the Lord can ask Him for help to see it as I see it now plainly.

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

The pre trib rapture is when God will judge His House first, leaving those astray behind to restore them to the path of righteousness for His name's sake for He will lose nothing of all the Father has given Him. So the rapture is not a pie in a sky escape for all believers in Jesus Christ, but for the elect: the chosen: the disciples that continued in His words to be found abiding in Him by His grace & by His help to attend the Marriage Supper of the Lamb to eat in sincerity and in truth. 1 Peter 4:17-19 & 1 Corinthians 5:4-13

But I do not want to divert the topic any further and so I leave it here at that to nibble on for discernment.

 

[kenisyes]

hi Enow.
i don't know who taught you of a pretrib rapture and a future 1,000 years, but it's not written anywhere in the scriptures.

welcome, btw.
i see you are new

zone

Pre-trib rapture is not in Scripture. Thousand Year reign is word for word from Rev. 20:4: Those who did not have the mark of the beast "lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

 

[Jon4TheCross]

2Co 8:11 Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have.
2Co 8:12 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.
2Co 8:13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:
2Co 8:14 But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
2Co 8:15 As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.

Equality is certainly a Biblical perspective, and here's another regarding equality in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Mat 20:8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
Mat 20:9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
Mat 20:10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
Mat 20:11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
Mat 20:12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
Mat 20:13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
Mat 20:14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
Mat 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

I hear many excuses from many, and most are saying that they think it's impossible (the Bible does not teach that this is impossible). I am not suprised to get this reaction, but I was hoping that more would be willing to live on litte while others who live on nothing can be helped more.

The reason why this did not last in the first works and first love (if you do the research) is because they were killed for the faith. Being killed for the name of Christ and the example of the Kingdom of Heaven on earth is a privilege. It will happen again I'm pretty sure, and I can't wait, but it seems that many would rather not die for the Lord.

Col_3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

It's so sad, but true that many "Christians" don't even know about the commonwealth of Israel, and they are being choked into very limited or non existant fruitfulness by the cares and riches of this world (thorns), ignorance (no root), and unbelief (way side).

Luk 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Luk 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
Luk 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
Luk 8:16 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light.
Luk 8:17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.

I will not point out each individual that has contradicted the Bible, but I will say this;
Equality is surely of the Kingdom of Heaven, suffering is surely part of our reward on this earth, nothing is impossible with God, and I cry when I see or hear of Christians holding back a part.

How important is it to God that we don't hold back any part?
Act 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Act 5:2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Act 5:5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

 

[zone]

Hi zone,

Thank you for the welcome.

However, it is written in the scripture, but hidden as there are three harvests that makes up the whole in the kingdom of God. A seeker in the Lord can ask Him for help to see it as I see it now plainly.

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

The pre trib rapture is when God will judge His House first, leaving those astray behind to restore them to the path of righteousness for His name's sake for He will lose nothing of all the Father has given Him. So the rapture is not a pie in a sky escape for all believers in Jesus Christ, but for the elect: the chosen: the disciples that continued in His words to be found abiding in Him by His grace & by His help to attend the Marriage Supper of the Lamb to eat in sincerity and in truth. 1 Peter 4:17-19 & 1 Corinthians 5:4-13

But I do not want to divert the topic any further and so I leave it here at that to nibble on for discernment.

i don't want to divert the topic either.
there is no pretrib rapture.
it's folly.
ttyl.

 

[Red33]

Pre-trib rapture is not in Scripture. Thousand Year reign is word for word from Rev. 20:4: Those who did not have the mark of the beast "lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

The church is an organic body that is separate from Israel and has been redeemed by the blood of the new testament covenant as a precious possession. This church will be caught away prior to the time that God will separately deal with Israel through divine discipline and with the children of disobedience dwelling upon the earth during the time of great tribulation coming upon the earth. The church, those who were dead and alive in Christ, are gathered together at the time of His appearance in the clouds of the air where every believer will be raised to meet Him and will be judged by a separate (bema) seat judgment. This judgment will be according to their works prior to the the second coming of Christ with His own to the earth, the judgment of the nations and the great white throne judgment that will follow the 1,000 year millennial reign, when Satan is loosed for a season to gather together from the four corners of the earth for battle against the saints of the beloved city. The catching away of the church prior to the great tribulation is scriptural and will take place before the antichrist is revealed and before God deals with the nation of Israel as He has promised to do.

 

[kenisyes]

The church is an organic body that is separate from Israel and has been redeemed by the blood of the new testament covenant as a precious possession. This church will be caught away prior to the time that God will separately deal with Israel through divine discipline and with the children of disobedience dwelling upon the earth during the time of great tribulation coming upon the earth. The church, those who were dead and alive in Christ, are gathered together at the time of His appearance in the clouds of the air where every believer will be raised to meet Him and will be judged by a separate (bema) seat judgment. This judgment will be according to their works prior to the the second coming of Christ with His own to the earth, the judgment of the nations and the great white throne judgment that will follow the 1,000 year millennial reign, when Satan is loosed for a season to gather together from the four corners of the earth for battle against the saints of the beloved city. The catching away of the church prior to the great tribulation is scriptural and will take place before the antichrist is revealed and before God deals with the nation of Israel as He has promised to do.

I don't see a Scripture quote.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

The church is an organic body that is separate from Israel and has been redeemed by the blood of the new testament covenant as a precious possession. This church will be caught away prior to the time that God will separately deal with Israel through divine discipline and with the children of disobedience dwelling upon the earth during the time of great tribulation coming upon the earth. The church, those who were dead and alive in Christ, are gathered together at the time of His appearance in the clouds of the air where every believer will be raised to meet Him and will be judged by a separate (bema) seat judgment. This judgment will be according to their works prior to the the second coming of Christ with His own to the earth, the judgment of the nations and the great white throne judgment that will follow the 1,000 year millennial reign, when Satan is loosed for a season to gather together from the four corners of the earth for battle against the saints of the beloved city. The catching away of the church prior to the great tribulation is scriptural and will take place before the antichrist is revealed and before God deals with the nation of Israel as He has promised to do.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.



Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Jerusalem is a part of Israel, and Jerusalem which is above is free. We (the church) are from Heaven, and are all a part of the commonwealth of Israel. The two are only separate from the perspective of the flesh.

 

[Ariel82]

why you aren't taking action to support unlimited fruitfulness (equality and all things common with no respect of persons in unity with votiing)?

If anyone does want to take action, then the question is:

What is stopping us from helping others in this way (complete equality, meaning nobody has a better quality of life than anyone else)?

1. "unlimited fruitfulness" is a concept I do support and take action to help ensure in others as best as God has given me the ability to do so. However, I do not believe that "unlimited fruitfulness" means "equality and all things common with no respect of persons in unity with voting"

2. that sounds like communism and does not work because even the Bible does not support everyone having equal measure. Have you not read these scripture about the talents (which is money by the way, had some teenagers ask me once)?

Matthew 25
4 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. 18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 “So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ 21 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ 22 He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ 23 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’
24 “Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’
26 “But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.
29 ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

God entrusts us with material things so we can bless others around us who might be in need. However, that does not mean we give to all who demand it because some are greedy and want to take what they do not need and oppress others. therefore we must use the discernment God has given us to how to use our resources to actually give people a hand up and not a hand out. I believe more in teaching people how to fish than just giving them a fish for the day.

Orphans I would feed gladly but even widows are told to look to their family first and NOT trouble the church unless they are 60 years of age and of good report.

3. voting? that is a joke. decisions should be made through prayer and out of the abundance of a person's heart. to be made to give by men and their votes is not the same thing as to be moved by the Holy Spirit to give out of mercy and grace.

4. no one has a better quality of life in eternity than others because if they are children of God, they will be clothed in white and have every tear wiped from their eyes. However, in the present world there will be trials and if we are able and God has blessed us with the resources we help those around us.

We work in order to have bread to give if we are asked but wealth in itself is not evil. it is the greedy and hard heart that is unwilling to give to others.

giving others physical bread alone is not enough. teaching them to be responsible human beings who know how to good and know how to work even if they do not get paid for their labors. that is more important lesson than food alone.

I know I'm babbling now. i would edit it but i have to fix dinner. I just wanted to say. don't give hand outs, give hand ups. teach people to respect themselves and others enough to allow them to work for their food and be productive and contributing members of society. teaching that people are "entitled" to be equal with others in material ways when they do not do equal work is wrong and NOT what the Bible teaches at all.

God teaches us that it is HE who blesses and HE who takes away and to be content in whatever manner we find ourselves. HE commands us to seek not food and clothing but the Kingdom of God and all else will be added to us through His mercy and grace.

When I see a person in need. I pray first and ask God how best I personally can help that person. Sometimes its more in time spent and encouragement given than material things.

God bless and keep you. Good night.

 

[shrimp]

I can honestly say that I forgot what this was about. and reading the last page didn't give me much of a clue either.

 

[psychomom]

Jon, I'm interested to hear how you think this plan is best implemented.
I'm assuming you intend for it to be worldwide, and between believers,
so please, correct me if that's wrong?

thanks!
-ellie

 

[Red33]

I don't see a Scripture quote.

Do you believe those statements to be pulled out of the air with no basis and no foundation in the written word or are you teasing me because it is so obvious concerning Christ and the church and the catching away of the church, being seperate from Israel.

 

[kenisyes]

Do you believe those statements to be pulled out of the air with no basis and no foundation in the written word or are you teasing me because it is so obvious concerning Christ and the church and the catching away of the church, being seperate from Israel.

I am quite serious. People have been arguing pre/mid/post trib rapture for four hundred years and, as far as I know, no one has been able to muster enough scripture to convince the other. If you have been able to, I would live to see it. I know there is a basis for each and a foundation, but no proof.

 

[Red33]

I am quite serious. People have been arguing pre/mid/post trib rapture for four hundred years and, as far as I know, no one has been able to muster enough scripture to convince the other. If you have been able to, I would live to see it. I know there is a basis for each and a foundation, but no proof.

Sufficient proof will never be found outside of faith and/or when these events actually come to past. The scriptural grounds that provides for the church, separate from Israel, being a mystery from beginning to end with the catching away of those both dead and alive in Christ, will never be accepted by those who are bent on amillennialism and who spiritualize the Church by merging it with Israel as one body. The church is a separate organism, Christ's body, flesh and bones, and that can never happen and will not happen. God has only provided through His Son one body for those who believe, both for the Jew and the Gentile. Those Jews that remain in unbelief as a nation and people have been set aside in their unbelief until the time of Jacob's trouble and the second coming of Christ, when their eyes will be opened and they will see Christ the Messiah with their own eyes and believe.

To believe that the church will go through the tribulation is only in response to the church not being raptured and caught away before this great tribulation coming upon the earth and a diluted understanding of the kingdom of God on earth. The preaching of the gospel of Christ during the time of the Gentiles and in the fulness of them coming into the church will come to an end when they are taken up to meet the Lord in the air. Those Gentiles who believer after this catching away of the church will have to bind themselves to the Jews who overcome through the blood of the Lamb. They will abstain from the mark of the beast and be marked for persecution as well as the 144,000 and the two witnesses sent by God to prophecy for 1,260 days, who will torment the children of disobedience during that time until they are killed by the beast.

 

[kenisyes]

Sufficient proof will never be found outside of faith and/or when these events actually come to past.

Apparently. I'm just happy to know God will take care of me (and you as well, I assume), one way or the other.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

1. "unlimited fruitfulness" is a concept I do support and take action to help ensure in others as best as God has given me the ability to do so. However, I do not believe that "unlimited fruitfulness" means "equality and all things common with no respect of persons in unity with voting"

2. that sounds like communism and does not work because even the Bible does not support everyone having equal measure. Have you not read these scripture about the talents (which is money by the way, had some teenagers ask me once)?




God entrusts us with material things so we can bless others around us who might be in need. However, that does not mean we give to all who demand it because some are greedy and want to take what they do not need and oppress others. therefore we must use the discernment God has given us to how to use our resources to actually give people a hand up and not a hand out. I believe more in teaching people how to fish than just giving them a fish for the day.

Orphans I would feed gladly but even widows are told to look to their family first and NOT trouble the church unless they are 60 years of age and of good report.

3. voting? that is a joke. decisions should be made through prayer and out of the abundance of a person's heart. to be made to give by men and their votes is not the same thing as to be moved by the Holy Spirit to give out of mercy and grace.

4. no one has a better quality of life in eternity than others because if they are children of God, they will be clothed in white and have every tear wiped from their eyes. However, in the present world there will be trials and if we are able and God has blessed us with the resources we help those around us.

We work in order to have bread to give if we are asked but wealth in itself is not evil. it is the greedy and hard heart that is unwilling to give to others.

giving others physical bread alone is not enough. teaching them to be responsible human beings who know how to good and know how to work even if they do not get paid for their labors. that is more important lesson than food alone.

I know I'm babbling now. i would edit it but i have to fix dinner. I just wanted to say. don't give hand outs, give hand ups. teach people to respect themselves and others enough to allow them to work for their food and be productive and contributing members of society. teaching that people are "entitled" to be equal with others in material ways when they do not do equal work is wrong and NOT what the Bible teaches at all.

God teaches us that it is HE who blesses and HE who takes away and to be content in whatever manner we find ourselves. HE commands us to seek not food and clothing but the Kingdom of God and all else will be added to us through His mercy and grace.

When I see a person in need. I pray first and ask God how best I personally can help that person. Sometimes its more in time spent and encouragement given than material things.

God bless and keep you. Good night.

What would you consider an acceptable method of casting lots? And regarding equality, all things common, unity, no respect of persons, Do you really not know that this is taught in the Bible? I can give you pages of examples, including the commonwealth of Israel all the way back in the Old Testament. Did you know that the gentiles were always allowed to be a part of the commonwealth of Israel? Perhaps you don't know about the commonwealth of Israel, the first works, or the first love?

 

[Colours]

Why are almost all that I talk to that claim to be the Everlasting Priesthood (Christians) opposed to the idea of all things commmon, and complete equality, and suffering a bit more so another can suffer less?

I don't expect to get many answers founded with scripture, but if anyone can give an answer from scripture for the reason why you aren't taking action to support unlimited fruitfulness (equality and all things common with no respect of persons in unity with votiing)?

If anyone does want to take action, then the question is:

What is stopping us from helping others in this way (complete equality, meaning nobody has a better quality of life than anyone else)?

Human greed.

Most people are generally afraid to give up what little they have. We struggle to believe that we are good enough for God to want to bless us if we give ourselves to others.

That leap is the most difficult.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Jon, I'm interested to hear how you think this plan is best implemented.
I'm assuming you intend for it to be worldwide, and between believers,
so please, correct me if that's wrong?

thanks!
-ellie

This is already worldwide, but very hard for the world to see, because so many hate the idea of complete equality. This is an eternal way of living, and I'm just trying to help people to understand that they're doing very litte to help others, cause most are trying to do what they can do, not what we can do together, with the same mind, same spirit, same first love, and same first works. It's already worldwide, and my plan is to simply offer people the ability to be a spiritual food cart everyday, and also a merchandise cart at the same time (permanent barter fair).

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Also, regarding equality, and the Bible teaching complete equality.

We are all equal based on this principle.

Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.