Why Many Fail to Receive Healing

psychomom · Dec 7, 2012

lesjude, I just wanted to respond to this---

You said,

You have my most sincere apologies!

I should have made clear I was speaking of physical afflictions...I thought it would be the 'you understood' of the post.
It wasn't. I'm really sorry to have offended you.

You are correct...I do have no idea.
But I do care!
If you believe these things about healing for yourself, I think that's great.
I'm trying to tread softly here...I hope that gets conveyed digitally...
What I disagree with is the inherent condemnation you bring with your OP.

You condemn those who believe differently, in saying, 'this is what the Bible says, and if you disagree, you're wrong.'
And you condemn those who don't experience healing now by saying either there must be sin, or too little faith.

Now, I may be too close to this, and thus unable to 'hear' you right.
If that's the case, again, I ask your pardon, and ask that you please explain.

This is my position:

So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. (Rom. 9:16)

I do realize that the context there is salvation.
But I don't think it's improper to extrapolate it to all of my walk with the Lord Jesus.

I submit that to the brethren for correction.

Sincerely,
ellie

lesjude · Dec 7, 2012

pickles said:

Please click on the link below for this forum:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/53627-pauls-thorn-not-sickness.html

zone · Dec 7, 2012

Healing
The Word of Faith teaches that complete healing (of spirit, soul, and body) is included in Christ's atonement and therefore is available here and now to all who believe. Frequently cited is Isaiah 53:5[bible 9], "by his stripes we are healed", and Matthew 8:17[bible 10], which says that Jesus healed the sick so that "it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the Prophet, 'Himself took our infirmities, and bore our sicknesses'."

Because Isaiah speaks in the present tense ("we are healed"), Word of Faith teaches that believers should accept the reality of a healing that is already theirs. Accepting this healing is done by confessing the verse or verses found in the Bible declaring they are healed (i.e. Word of Faith) and then believing them fully without doubt. It is not an act of denying the pain, sickness, or disease, but an act of denying its right to supersede the receiving the gift mentioned in Isaiah 53:5.[5] According to adherents, sickness is an attempt by Satan to rob believers of their divine right to total health.[6]

Faith and confession
Within Word of Faith teaching, a central element of receiving from God involves "confession". This doctrine is often referred to as "positive confession" or "faith confession" by practitioners. While similar, the teaching should not be confused with Norman Vincent Peale's positive thinking theology. Peale's teaching was marked by its focus on the individual, as evidenced by his oft-spoken statement, "Faith in God and believe in oneself".[16] Noted Word of Faith teachers, such as Kenneth E. Hagin and Charles Capps, have argued that God created the universe simply by speaking it into existence (Genesis 1[bible 12]), and that humans have been endowed with the ability (power) to speak things into existence. Thus, making a "positive confession" (by reciting a promise of scripture, for example), and believing that which God says, generates power which enables those things to come into fruition. This teaching is interpreted from Mark 11:22-23[bible 13]. Word of Faith preachers have likened faith to a "force".[17]
Likewise, according to Word of Faith teaching, "negative confession" can yield negative results, and hence believers should be conscious of their words. This is argued on the interpretation of Proverbs 18:21[bible 14], "Life and death are in the power of the tongue, and they that love them will eat the fruit thereof", also Numbers 14:28[bible 15], "...saith the Lord, as you have spoken in my ears, so will I do", among other scriptures.

Word of Faith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click

...

i should contact wikipedia and correct this:

"While similar, the teaching should not be confused with Norman Vincent Peale's positive thinking theology."

that's exactly where the WoF guys got it.

lesjude · Dec 7, 2012

My motive for posting was that I KNOW from our own experience of 35 years that what I have said is true and more importantly it is in the Bible. I want God's people to stop living like the prodigal's brother and live in the over 4000 positive promises given by their Father in His word. More importantly I want Jesus to receive all the trust and obedience He makes possible by grace through faith He provides as a result of His horrible death.
When I got saved I changed. If someone told me I was missing it, or they could see issues in my life, including enemies, I did not get angry or offended but sought Jesus in His word. If I was told something was in the Bible like God was always willing to heal I set my heart to find out. He trained me and proved Himself faithful many times. He started with instant healing for severe burns and proved Himself faithful with our children as well. We then understood that no matter how long it takes for healing or how bad it looks Jesus ALWAYS shows up with His promises including finances, protection from harm and danger, deliverance from demonic oppression, and persecution. This is NORMAL Christianity not some special grace or because we are better than anyone else. We have received GREAT grace and one reason is Hebrews 4:14-16.
I realize ours is a minority position. However the majority were NEVER right on spiritual matters in the Bible.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 7, 2012

lesjude said:

so according to you bad eyesite is not a sickness?

Why is it that Paul had to have a scribe pen his letters. and then he signed each one with his own hand so they knew it was him, because he could not see good enough to write his own letters?

And if bad eyesite is a sickness (which it IS) then why did God not heal paul of his sickness?

lesjude · Dec 7, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

No, not according to me but the Bible which I explained in the link. Please read it again.

Elizabeth619 · Dec 7, 2012

Eh, I don't consider eye problems a sickness, unless it is linked to other health condition like diabetes which people do go blind from.
Many people have their eyesight affected due to accidents, genetics and so on. What I consider a sickness is when it is viral, bacterial or something of that nature. Just my POV.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 7, 2012

lesjude said:

not according to the bible??

tell that to people who can not see.. The term sickness is something wrong with the body. cancer is a sickness, Weakness is a sickness. a cold or flue is a sickness. the lame are sick, the blind are sick.

sorry, we don't disregard things which would refute what your saying and say it is not a sickness just because we might have to admit we are wrong.

Do you think Paul did not want his site back? that he did not beg to have it back?

as for going to another link. I did not come her to go to links. I came here to discuss Gods word. do you want to discuss it or not?

eternally-gratefull · Dec 7, 2012

Elizabeth619 said:

yet God can heal even that. And if what this guy claims is true, God would heal this, Because it is a problem with the body which as with paul, hindered what we could do. As all sicknesses do.

zone · Dec 7, 2012

lesjude said:

yours is not a minority position at all.
it's extremely popular.

Prosperity
Main article: Prosperity theology
Word of Faith teaching holds that God wants his people to be financially prosperous, as well as have good health, good marriages and relationships, and to live generally prosperous lives. Word of Faith teaches that God empowers his people (blesses them) to achieve the promises that are contained in the Bible.[7] Because of this, suffering does not come from God, but rather, from Satan. As Kenneth Copeland's ministry has stated, the idea that God uses suffering for our benefit is considered to be "a deception of Satan" and "absolutely against the Word of God." [8] Additionally, if someone is not experiencing prosperity, it is because they have given Satan authority over their lives. God will not do anything at all unless the person invites him to.[9]

Word of Faith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia << click

Elizabeth619 · Dec 7, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

Well, Jesus did heal the blind didn't he?

God can heal whoever he wants. Doesn't mean he will. Doesn't mean it is HIS will to heal a person with an ailment.

Many people can use their illnesses to bring others closer to God. I've seen it done many many times.

lesjude · Dec 7, 2012

zone said:

Healing
The Word of Faith teaches that complete healing (of spirit, soul, and body) is included in Christ's atonement and therefore is available here and now to all who believe. Frequently cited is Isaiah 53:5[bible 9], "by his stripes we are healed", and Matthew 8:17[bible 10], which says that Jesus healed the sick so that "it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the Prophet, 'Himself took our infirmities, and bore our sicknesses'."

Because Isaiah speaks in the present tense ("we are healed"), Word of Faith teaches that believers should accept the reality of a healing that is already theirs. Accepting this healing is done by confessing the verse or verses found in the Bible declaring they are healed (i.e. Word of Faith) and then believing them fully without doubt. It is not an act of denying the pain, sickness, or disease, but an act of denying its right to supersede the receiving the gift mentioned in Isaiah 53:5.[5] According to adherents, sickness is an attempt by Satan to rob believers of their divine right to total health.[6]

Faith and confession
Within Word of Faith teaching, a central element of receiving from God involves "confession". This doctrine is often referred to as "positive confession" or "faith confession" by practitioners. While similar, the teaching should not be confused with Norman Vincent Peale's positive thinking theology. Peale's teaching was marked by its focus on the individual, as evidenced by his oft-spoken statement, "Faith in God and believe in oneself".[16] Noted Word of Faith teachers, such as Kenneth E. Hagin and Charles Capps, have argued that God created the universe simply by speaking it into existence (Genesis 1[bible 12]), and that humans have been endowed with the ability (power) to speak things into existence. Thus, making a "positive confession" (by reciting a promise of scripture, for example), and believing that which God says, generates power which enables those things to come into fruition. This teaching is interpreted from Mark 11:22-23[bible 13]. Word of Faith preachers have likened faith to a "force".[17]
Likewise, according to Word of Faith teaching, "negative confession" can yield negative results, and hence believers should be conscious of their words. This is argued on the interpretation of Proverbs 18:21[bible 14], "Life and death are in the power of the tongue, and they that love them will eat the fruit thereof", also Numbers 14:28[bible 15], "...saith the Lord, as you have spoken in my ears, so will I do", among other scriptures.

Word of Faith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click

...

i should contact wikipedia and correct this:

"While similar, the teaching should not be confused with Norman Vincent Peale's positive thinking theology."

No, positive confession is simply agreeing with what God's word says about your situation and comes from what is believed in the heart.
Romans 10:10-11New King James Version (NKJV)

10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

The Greek word sozo-save includes eternal life, forgiveness of sin, protection and deliverance form suffering and danger, and healing plus more.
Here are examples of heart faith being spoken when the situations looked IMPOSSIBLE:
Numbers 13:27-14:10. Note verses Numbers 13:30 and Numbers 14:6-9.

2 Kings 4:16-37. Note verses 23, 26 and 28.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 7, 2012

Elizabeth619 said:

as have I. Talk about holding back the power of God. If God healed all of us, what need would we have of him anyway? God could not use it to teach us to trust him (as he did paul, my grace is sufficient) or to help teach others..

psychomom · Dec 7, 2012

Ah, well, this is the crux of the matter...no matter how long it takes.
Sorry--I didn't get that from what you originally posted.

...did you not intend a comma there?
Do you mean persecution from demonic influence?
(just asking for the sake of clarity)

zone · Dec 7, 2012

Elizabeth619 said:

hi Beth.
the point is, these bodies are returning to dust no matter how many "positive confessions" we make. i know you know this....who doesn't

failing eyesight, wrinkles, sickness, death - all a result of the fall, and no matter what the Manifest Sons of God/WoF guys say (that if they do it right; some will actually achieve glorification before the Second Advent < i kid you not), no one is reversing that except The Lord, and that's at the consummation.

not one single believer will say God doesn't heal if He chooses. even those who have not been healed of a physical condition will testify the same.

love ya
zone

Job 13:15
Even if He kills me, I will hope in Him. I will still defend my ways before Him.
HolmanCSB

Job 38:4
“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding..."

oopsie Job

eternally-gratefull · Dec 7, 2012

zone said:

Yep, imagine pour old Paul. Not only did he have to take time to dictate his letters to a scribe because he could not see. had had to take time to work, because God did not prosper him. Imagine how much more paul could have done if he made him see and rich!!

Elizabeth619 · Dec 7, 2012

zone said:

I guess we could also add that all throughout the bible there are verses about herbs and such for healing. Wasn't Luke a physician too? Obviously there is a need for medicine, doctors and healthcare. ITS IN THE BIBLE!

When I became a Christian I was healed. THAT is the healing that matters. The spiritual, not the physical.

zone · Dec 7, 2012

lesjude said:

ya ya....BUT
what IF He says NO?

you're over the top jude.
stop it.
we can dump this whole stew you've got going overboard in one day if needed.
we'll just trace it to it's roots.

your situation is in the Bible? that's odd....it was finished a long time before you were born, man.

lesjude · Dec 7, 2012

psychomom said:

Persecution comes from people as a result of living forJesus i.e. Matthew 5, 6 and 7 for just one place. We have experienced at least as much from Christians as the unsaved, perhaps more. It was really light persecution but at one point I lost about 10 pounds as a result of the stress. It seemed heavy at the time. It did a good work in me part of which was being humbled and NEVER being afraid of man or what they can do, or what they threaten/think they can do EVER again.
Demons are behind it and enjoy it, God allows it and gets the Glory when we are conformed to the image of Jesus as a result. There are a few I am going to want to drag around a bit behind that white horse Jesus promises to those who overcome in all things. I have one in Jesus' name.

zone · Dec 7, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

AN EXAMINATION OF THE WORD-FAITH MOVEMENT by Richard J. Vincent

"You don't have a god in you, you are one."(1)

"Pray to yourself, because I'm in your self and you're in Myself. We are one Spirit, saith the Lord."(2)

"I say this with all respect so that it don't upset you too bad, but I say it anyway. When I read in the Bible where he [Jesus] says, 'I Am,' I just smile and say, 'Yes, I Am, too!'"(3)

What group would say such outrageous things? What group would have the nerve to perpetuate such blasphemous doctrines? Could it be the Jehovah's Witnesses? the Mormons? the Unitarians? the New Agers? Could it be—the Christians?

The Word-Faith Teachers

The Word-Faith Teachers. This is the group that would seek to convince us that Jesus and His disciples were rich, that to be poor is a sin, to be sick is a sin, and that faith is a creative force that we can use to shape our world just like God supposedly created this world and universe that we live in through His "faith"!

Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Paul Crouch, John Avanzini, Robert Tilton, Fred Price, and Benny Hinn (who at the time of this writing has authored the number one best selling Christian book in America, "Good Morning, Holy Spirit") are just a few that spew out this theological vomit.

AN EXAMINATION OF THE WORD-FAITH MOVEMENT << click

Why Many Fail to Receive Healing

psychomom

Guest

lesjude

Guest

Senior Member

lesjude

Guest

eternally-gratefull

Guest

lesjude

Guest

Senior Member

eternally-gratefull

Guest

eternally-gratefull

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

lesjude

Guest

eternally-gratefull

Guest

psychomom

Guest

Senior Member

eternally-gratefull

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

lesjude

Guest

Senior Member