Why most Christians are going to hell?

[Amanuensis]

There are Christians like Dr. Michael Brown, who think that there are different kinds of sin. Some are worse then others. I have his book here called "Go And Sin No More". I read it but I'm not sure how much I agree with it. There is such at thing as understanding the whole bible within context. And I find that task, not so easy.

The thing is, and it seems like, to me anyways, that most men, even Christian men find themselves lusting after women. I think some do it in varying degrees. For example, some men might be addicted to porn while another man might not be addicted to porn but still find himself giving women looks on the street. Then there are some guys who seem to be completely delivered of this issue. If @Amanuensis , interpenetrating those scriptures correctly, in context with the whole bible, then those men, regardless if they called on the name of the lord, as it says in john 3:16. Is going to end up like these:

Matthew 7
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

But if the once saved always saved people are correct. Once you join the family of God, your in the family regardless of how much you sin. You just simply make your Father sad, and he will reduce your rewards, but that is basically it. I hope the once saved always saved people are right, because I'm tormented with some of those sins too. Even though I'm not actively having sex with anyone! I get lonely and sexually aroused, and I might be lusting when that happens.

You don't want to hope that OSAS is right about folks getting to keep a lustful sin in their bosom and pet it, and still get to go to heaven but just loose some rewards. That would make God an unholy God and heaven an unholy place. Not the kind of place lovers of righteousness want to go.

Let there be a place for sin petters, but let it never be in heaven. Keep the sin caressers far from the pure, white, spotless, perfection of the presence of God and holy saints washed in the blood. These who are washed in the blood will fling off sin like the filth that it is, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. This does not mean we are perfect before the resurrection but it means we long to be and seek to always be pressing into it, not finding excuses to hold on to any sin.

Most OSAS people agree with what I am saying, those who actually understand the doctrine of eternal security agree with the pursuit of holiness and hate sin. They usually say that anyone who is indifferent about sin in their lives aren't really saved yet.

Repentance, true repentance does not seek to justify. True repentance receives Grace from God to overcome. Grace from God is not overlooking our failures and letting us wallow in them, Grace from God is a power that comes and strengthens, settles and establishes us. We can become strong in an area we were once weak in.

The process of renewing the mind does not take that long. It is amazing how quick the old habits are destroyed by the new habits of yielding to righteousness. Soon your first thought and reaction will be to be repulsed by an attractive woman wearing provocative things. Your first thought. Not your second. It is called Victory over the flesh by obedience to the Spirit. It starts out as a battle, and suffering might be involved but then it soon turns into Victory and no longer a battle, the first reaction is to be "grossed out" by what you once looked twice at.

Have faith and believe you will overcome and start quoting scriptures when tempted and in a very short time you will find that you are strong in those areas you were once weak in and you will not allow others to offer excuses.

 

[Magenta]

Job 33:27b-28~ I have sinned and perverted what was right; yet I did not get what I deserved.
He redeemed my soul from going down to the Pit, and I will live to see the Light.

 

[Seeking-Christ]

You don't want to hope that OSAS is right about folks getting to keep a lustful sin in their bosom and pet it, and still get to go to heaven but just loose some rewards. That would make God an unholy God and heaven an unholy place. Not the kind of place lovers of righteousness want to go.

Let there be a place for sin petters, but let it never be in heaven. Keep the sin caressers far from the pure, white, spotless, perfection of the presence of God and holy saints washed in the blood. These who are washed in the blood will fling off sin like the filth that it is, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. This does not mean we are perfect before the resurrection but it means we long to be and seek to always be pressing into it, not finding excuses to hold on to any sin.

Most OSAS people agree with what I am saying, those who actually understand the doctrine of eternal security agree with the pursuit of holiness and hate sin. They usually say that anyone who is indifferent about sin in their lives aren't really saved yet.

Repentance, true repentance does not seek to justify. True repentance receives Grace from God to overcome. Grace from God is not overlooking our failures and letting us wallow in them, Grace from God is a power that comes and strengthens, settles and establishes us. We can become strong in an area we were once weak in.

The process of renewing the mind does not take that long. It is amazing how quick the old habits are destroyed by the new habits of yielding to righteousness. Soon your first thought and reaction will be to be repulsed by an attractive woman wearing provocative things. Your first thought. Not your second. It is called Victory over the flesh by obedience to the Spirit. It starts out as a battle, and suffering might be involved but then it soon turns into Victory and no longer a battle, the first reaction is to be "grossed out" by what you once looked twice at.

Have faith and believe you will overcome and start quoting scriptures when tempted and in a very short time you will find that you are strong in those areas you were once weak in and you will not allow others to offer excuses.

How are you doing with all of that?

 

[Live4Him3]

All I know is, Paul said that HE struggled with his sinful nature. Is this guy better than Paul? Is he sinless? I'd stay clear of him.

Paul admitted to struggling with his sinful nature.

I assume this guy is claiming that he never sins?!? Hmm... sounds .. I dunno.. heretical to me??

I Corinthians chapter 9

[24] Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
[25] And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
[26] I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
[27] But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Should I expect a counter from Romans chapter 7, which is probably the most regularly butchered chapter in the Bible?

(He puts on his flame-retardant suit and backs away from the wooden tree as he awakens the fire-breathing Gojira)

Whatever the case may be, I'm NOT condoning that guy's video. Like I said, it contains both error and truth, and that's a dangerous mixture.

 

[Amanuensis]

How are you doing with all of that?

I would not have written it if I was not living it. It isn't a theory. It is real Christianity.

I think that the reason so many Christians struggle for so long is that they are constantly yielding their members (eyes, thoughts, ears) to entertainment that is full of lusts and ungodliness and so they feed on this and justify themselves saying "I don't believe in doing that, it is just a movie, or a song, or a video game" and then they wonder why they are still weak in the vices of the flesh that they should have overcome already. It is not complicated. Separate yourself from the darkness, ungodliness of the world and saturate yourself in the holiness and purity of Christ and yield your members (eyes, ears, thoughts, speech, etc) to righteousness and you will become a slave to righteousness. You will be addicted to righteousness. You will find more satisfaction in righteousness and the lusts of the flesh won't have the draw that they used to because those chains will be broken by practicing the opposite yielding to righteousness.

And it does not take that long. A few days or weeks and you can be strong in an area you were weak in. You will look back and say "I can't believe I ever had a problem with that thing" It seems so far away now and even the memories of why it brought pleasure will fade so far away that they have no power to pull you.

Jesus will set us free and when Jesus sets us free we are free indeed. It does not have to be a life time struggle.

 

[Amanuensis]

There are Christians like Dr. Michael Brown, who think that there are different kinds of sin. Some are worse then others. I have his book here called "Go And Sin No More". I read it but I'm not sure how much I agree with it. There is such at thing as understanding the whole bible within context. And I find that task, not so easy.

The thing is, and it seems like, to me anyways, that most men, even Christian men find themselves lusting after women. I think some do it in varying degrees. For example, some men might be addicted to porn while another man might not be addicted to porn but still find himself giving women looks on the street. Then there are some guys who seem to be completely delivered of this issue. If @Amanuensis , interpenetrating those scriptures correctly, in context with the whole bible, then those men, regardless if they called on the name of the lord, as it says in john 3:16. Is going to end up like these:
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

But if the once saved always saved people are correct. Once you join the family of God, your in the family regardless of how much you sin. You just simply make your Father sad, and he will reduce your rewards, but that is basically it. I hope the once saved always saved people are right, because I'm tormented with some of those sins too. Even though I'm not actively having sex with anyone! I get lonely and sexually aroused, and I might be lusting when that happens.

From what I have heard from Dr. Michael Brown he is doing a good service to the body of Christ. And he is a real PhD. With quite an impressive background. So far I love the guy and wish we had many more like him. I am sure that he is not perfect but I would definitely consider him one of the best public preachers of our day.

 

[Seeking-Christ]

From what I have heard from Dr. Michael Brown he is doing a good service to the body of Christ. And he is a real PhD. With quite an impressive background. So far I love the guy and wish we had many more like him. I am sure that he is not perfect but I would definitely consider him one of the best public preachers of our day.

Have you read "Go And Sin No More"?

 

[Amanuensis]

Have you read "Go And Sin No More"?

No. I have read a couple of other of his books and recently heard him in person at an event in New York.

 

[Seeking-Christ]

No. I have read a couple of other of his books and recently heard him in person at an event in New York.

I want you to read that book. Then tell us what you think of it.

 

[Lynx]

Oh crap, is this turning into another Not By Works thread?

ABANDON THREAD! (sound of sirens in the background)

 

[Lynx]

You don't want to hope that OSAS is right about folks getting to keep a lustful sin in their bosom and pet it, and still get to go to heaven but just loose some rewards. That would make God an unholy God and heaven an unholy place. Not the kind of place lovers of righteousness want to go.

Let there be a place for sin petters, but let it never be in heaven. Keep the sin caressers far from the pure, white, spotless, perfection of the presence of God and holy saints washed in the blood. These who are washed in the blood will fling off sin like the filth that it is, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. This does not mean we are perfect before the resurrection but it means we long to be and seek to always be pressing into it, not finding excuses to hold on to any sin.

Most OSAS people agree with what I am saying, those who actually understand the doctrine of eternal security agree with the pursuit of holiness and hate sin. They usually say that anyone who is indifferent about sin in their lives aren't really saved yet.

Repentance, true repentance does not seek to justify. True repentance receives Grace from God to overcome. Grace from God is not overlooking our failures and letting us wallow in them, Grace from God is a power that comes and strengthens, settles and establishes us. We can become strong in an area we were once weak in.

The process of renewing the mind does not take that long. It is amazing how quick the old habits are destroyed by the new habits of yielding to righteousness. Soon your first thought and reaction will be to be repulsed by an attractive woman wearing provocative things. Your first thought. Not your second. It is called Victory over the flesh by obedience to the Spirit. It starts out as a battle, and suffering might be involved but then it soon turns into Victory and no longer a battle, the first reaction is to be "grossed out" by what you once looked twice at.

Have faith and believe you will overcome and start quoting scriptures when tempted and in a very short time you will find that you are strong in those areas you were once weak in and you will not allow others to offer excuses.

Yup.

It doesn't take an effort of will to not laugh at dirty jokes. They just aren't funny any more. You can still see why other people think them hilarious, but it just doesn't seem funny to you now.

Romans chapter 6 is a conclusive argument against continuing to live in sin.

 

[hornetguy]

If anyone is sincere in their search, God will notice them, and draw them to Jesus and give life to their spirit, plus the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

How do you see this happening? Just by being sincere?
Are there scriptures that support this scenario?

The reason I ask is because I believe from reading the Word, that there is much more to it than simply being sincere in your "search"....

 

[Live4Him3]

I want you to read that book. Then tell us what you think of it.

I read some of his earlier books many years ago ("How saved are we?", "It's time to rock the boat", etc.). In fact, I've met him in person, and he prayed for me and a friend of mine many years ago when we were preparing to venture out to preach on the streets for the first time. I've also watched a few of his debates, and I've even called into his radio show and briefly spoken to him there.

Now?

Well, I definitely have mixed feelings about him.

Sad to say, I've personally concluded that there is a pretty fair amount of mixture in his ministry. In fact, I once walked out from a service where he was the guest speaker because I concluded that the gifts or movings of the "Spirit" there were actually demonic in nature.

In some areas, he's right on the money.

In others, I definitely disagree with him.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

There is no certainty that OSAS is true. People who believe but who do not act accordingly (such as forgive, or have hate in their hearts) may not be forgiven and presumably will not have automatic entry to Heaven.

For example:

For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness. 14So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him....17Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.

 

[Live4Him3]

There is no certainty that OSAS is true.

That's because it isn't true.

In fact, it's a damnable heresy.

Anyhow, I don't want to derail this thread, but I needed to at least say that.

 

[Seeking-Christ]

I read some of his earlier books many years ago ("How saved are we?", "It's time to rock the boat", etc.). In fact, I've met him in person, and he prayed for me and a friend of mine many years ago when we were preparing to venture out to preach on the streets for the first time. I've also watched a few of his debates, and I've even called into his radio show and briefly spoken to him there.

Now?

Well, I definitely have mixed feelings about him.

Sad to say, I've personally concluded that there is a pretty fair amount of mixture in his ministry. In fact, I once walked out from a service where he was the guest speaker because I concluded that the gifts or movings of the "Spirit" there were actually demonic in nature.

In some areas, he's right on the money.

In others, I definitely disagree with him.

I have mixed feelings about Micheal Brown and Ray Comfort. I recently saw a video by another guy that i have mixed feeling about. LOL But He examined Ray Comforts methods. And come to the conclusion that even Ray Comfort is a "good works for salvation guy". He doesn't lead anyone in the Salvation prayer, but rather just tells people to stop sinning. May not be articulating this as good as I should be. So I will show you and everyone the video.

 

[Live4Him3]

I have mixed feelings about Micheal Brown and Ray Comfort. I recently saw a video by another guy that i have mixed feeling about. LOL But He examined Ray Comforts methods. And come to the conclusion that even Ray Comfort is a "good works for salvation guy". He doesn't lead anyone in the Salvation prayer, but rather just tells people to stop sinning. May not be articulating this as good as I should be. So I will show you and everyone the video.

I've already heard Kent Hovind's opinions of Ray Comfort, and, quite frankly, I think that Hovind is out of his mind.

I used to watch Hovind's Creation vs. Evolution videos many years ago, and there was some good stuff in that (with a sprinkle of error mixed in).

However, after Hovind came out of prison, it was honestly as if he had lost his mind while in prison. I've only listened to a few things that he's said after getting out of jail, and every single one of them was heretical nonsense (maybe he dropped the soap one time too many).

That being said, I'll skip this video.

 

[Seeking-Christ]

I've already heard Kent Hovind's opinions of Ray Comfort, and, quite frankly, I think that Hovind is out of his mind.

I used to watch Hovind's Creation vs. Evolution videos many years ago, and there was some good stuff in that (with a sprinkle of error mixed in).

However, after Hovind came out of prison, it was honestly as if he had lost his mind while in prison. I've only listened to a few things that he's said after getting out of jail, and every single one of them was heretical nonsense (maybe he dropped the soap one time too many).

That being said, I'll skip this video.

I told you that I have mixed feelings about Kent. But I think that video was pretty thoughtful. It's not crazy.

Anyways I don't think it's crazy.

 

[Live4Him3]

I told you that I have mixed feelings about Kent. But I think that video was pretty thoughtful. It's not crazy.

Well, I've got to head off to bed now because I have to get up really early for work tomorrow.

I'll watch the video that you linked to some other time and then offer you my evaluation of it (I already know that he's crazy, but I'll listen to the loon one more time).

Btw, when I mentioned Hovind's time in prison, I was referring to the 10 years (I think) that he spent there for income tax evasion. Apparently, he was also arrested last year on charges of domestic violence for allegedly body-slamming his wife:

https://www.al.com/news/mobile/2021...ind-arrested-on-domestic-violence-charge.html

 

[ChristianTonyB]

One way is to check out the attitude to other Christians. We may not agree on all subjects, but do we love the brethren? 1 John 3:14

Thank you for articulating this. I was hoping that they may see this of their own accord.
There is a delimma, do not cast our pearls, or more importantly, the Lord's pearls, before swine, but in a group there is wheat amongst the tares that will understand and be encouraged, and those that are borderline might be convicted to stop and think!