Why so much difference?

[HelloWorld1]

Here is a question I have had for awhile. Why are there so many different sects of Christianity? And within those sects, often very different beliefs about many different issues.

For example, some Christians are Calvinists, while some Christians are Armeniests, and most Christians are in the middle of that spectrum. Some Christians are adamant about only reading the KJV Bible, and other Christians will read and teach from NIV or other translations. Some Christians believe in a Lordship salvation and other Christians believe there can be such a thing as a carnal Christian. Some Cristians are adement that God still has certain plans that are only for the nation of Israel, and other Christians believe that all Christians are now the new Israel.

Now most issues are that are not agreed upon are not the core truths of Christianity (such as the resurrection), but why, with the Holy Spirit supposedly indwelling each believer, are we not on the same page, not even close? And then you have pastors that pray and examine the scriptures all week and disagree with another pastor down the road that prays and examines all week about important topics? While both supposedly being guided by the Holy Spirit...

 

[Absolem]

People are different. I think the differences just come from different perspectives obviously. I think God gifts different people with different understandings of certain aspects of Gods character. One pastor might be big on faith and another on love. Doesn't make either characteristic more important and most times faith and love go hand in hand. People are just different. These differences can cause division but we know that God is not the author of confusion. One faith. One lord. One baptism.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

Humans are subjective (even when we claim to be objective)

If you were to stage a robbery, and ask 10 witnesses what happened, chances are you'd get 10 different explanations,
some things they'd agree on, but much would be different.

- Also, there is the matter of background, experience, culture and setting

 

[Spokenpassage]

Often times we have a bias approach to Scripture, even when we are honest, and this affects our reading of the Scriptures. I would be identified as a Calvinst, because I see the importance of divine providence and sovereignty I will approach certain passages about God in light of what other texts speak about of his attributes. If I were not a Calvinist, I would attempt to approach the Scripture with a view to see an alternative, because I would judge the other belief to be false. We all can be honest in both directions, but there is still bias in us. Among the best of us, we still have some degree of ignorance in our walk.

So why? I found several reasons. One, it encourages and exhorts Christians to be in the practice of studying God's precious truth in times of complacency in the Church. Second, it is an effective tool in teaching, exhorting, comforting, and strengthen another as iron sharpens iron. Third, it validates the authenticity of our faith. There are countless debates over one text than over the entire understanding of the Quran, showing that it does not contains words that everyone can comprehend, but spiritual truths that must be understood with a mind of Christ. It shows us that there Satan is attempting to divide the people of God with novel ideas about everything.

 

[HelloWorld1]

Often times we have a bias approach to Scripture, even when we are honest, and this affects our reading of the Scriptures. I would be identified as a Calvinst, because I see the importance of divine providence and sovereignty I will approach certain passages about God in light of what other texts speak about of his attributes. If I were not a Calvinist, I would attempt to approach the Scripture with a view to see an alternative, because I would judge the other belief to be false. We all can be honest in both directions, but there is still bias in us. Among the best of us, we still have some degree of ignorance in our walk.

So why? I found several reasons. One, it encourages and exhorts Christians to be in the practice of studying God's precious truth in times of complacency in the Church. Second, it is an effective tool in teaching, exhorting, comforting, and strengthen another as iron sharpens iron. Third, it validates the authenticity of our faith. There are countless debates over one text than over the entire understanding of the Quran, showing that it does not contains words that everyone can comprehend, but spiritual truths that must be understood with a mind of Christ. It shows us that there Satan is attempting to divide the people of God with novel ideas about everything.

Do you think that God speaks to you through His word? As in a living word that is guiding you? Do you feel He has shown you truths that pertain to Calvinism? I believe most Christians would say that God has shown them truths in His word and that God speaks to them through the Holy Spirit. When I used to go to church I would hear pastors say "Look at what God has shown me this week, He's really been putting this on my heart lately and showing me some awesome things".

Now take the fact that you are a Calvinist, and that you disagree with some things that an Armeniest believes. You probably listen to some pastors or teachers that are Calvinist as well right? Well lets say Calvinist pastor Bob gets up on Sunday morning and says "let me tell you what I've been learning this week, God has been showing me so much". And proceeds to pound out a sermon on limited atonement.

You say there is bias in us. When you believe that God is speaking to you and showing you a truth, (like pastor Bob here believes), how confident are you that the leading or guiding or showing of a truth is God and not yourself? Are you confident that some of it is God but not all of it? If we cannot differentiate between the voice of God and the voice of ourself, then what good does it do to seek God's guidance in anything?

"Ah!", but you say. "I am confident that it was God's guiding and His voice that was speaking to me" Ok. But then another Christian down the road will say "God is showing me so many great things", and those things that he believes he was shown by God will disagree with what you said that you were shown by God.

The fact that some of these disagreements are over small matters is not important. What is important is that two people seeking the Spirit's guidance will come to different conclusions. If we were trying to figure things out ourselves, then of course we would come to different conclusions.

Like wwjd_kilden said:

If you were to stage a robbery, and ask 10 witnesses what happened, chances are you'd get 10 different explanations,
some things they'd agree on, but much would be different.

But, if 10 witnesses went to God and asked God what happened, and He spoke to each of them, how different should the stories be? They could be told in a different way, but there should be no inconsistencies or disagreements, because God told them what happened.

As Absolem said:

People are just different. These differences can cause division but we know that God is not the author of confusion. One faith. One lord. One baptism.

God is not the author of confusion but He leads people to conclusions that disagree with each other? That can't be happening. So how can you know what you are hearing is God? Shouldn't Christians that say they have a close personal relationship with Jesus and have an indwelling of the Holy Spirit be pretty certain when they hear from or are being led by God about truths in His word? If if they cannot be fairly certain, then when can you ever say for sure that it is God's voice or your own inner voice. And what confidence can we then have in any truth we think we know about God?

My point is that if God is the true God, and Christians are being guided by a Him and have a personal relationship with him, why are we not on the same page? You all brought up some good points about how we are human, and we have different perspectives, and have bias.

But now, how are we to know that it is God or ourselves leading us to some truth or speaking to us, and if we cannot KNOW that, what confidence have we in anything that we say we know or believe about God?

 

[Spokenpassage]

I see that your spiritual status is unsure, do you know the gospel?

 

[HelloWorld1]

I see that your spiritual status is unsure, do you know the gospel?

Yes I do. My dad is a pastor. I was raised a Christian and was a believer for many years. Then I started asking a lot of questions and found many things that just don't seem to add up.

 

[Spokenpassage]

Yes I do. My dad is a pastor. I was raised a Christian and was a believer for many years. Then I started asking a lot of questions and found many things that just don't seem to add up.

What did you think didn't add up?

 

[HelloWorld1]

What did you think didn't add up?

My earlier question (or questions) that I posted. And there are other topics that I may post in a different thread, but I would like to keep this thread on the subject of my earlier questions I was posing.

 

[Spokenpassage]

My earlier question (or questions) that I posted. And there are other topics that I may post in a different thread, but I would like to keep this thread on the subject of my earlier questions I was posing.

It seems your problem isn't with this subject, because these are not really issues. This is your thread, so be it.

 

[HelloWorld1]

It seems your problem isn't with this subject, because these are not really issues. This is your thread, so be it.

You're saying that not being able to differentiate between what our inner self or our bias is telling us, and what God is telling us is not an issue? That Christians that all say they have the Holy Spirit that ministers to each them will pray about an issue and will each come up with answers that disagree? And they each say that God was leading them to their conclusion?

But now, how are we to know that it is God or ourselves leading us to some truth or speaking to us, and if we cannot KNOW that, what confidence have we in anything that we say we know or believe about God?

 

[Spokenpassage]

You're saying that not being able to differentiate between what our inner self or our bias is telling us, and what God is telling us is not an issue? That Christians that all say they have the Holy Spirit that ministers to each them will pray about an issue and will each come up with answers that disagree? And they each say that God was leading them to their conclusion?

Different intepretations is not the major issue here, because you are more focused on how other people approach Scripture when it should be you searching to see if anything is true in the Scriptures. My faith does not rest on how many denomination exists, how many opinions have been formed, my concern is what the Scriptures say true at all? One person may say this and another that, do any of them hold water?

 

[Galatea]

Do you think that God speaks to you through His word? As in a living word that is guiding you? Do you feel He has shown you truths that pertain to Calvinism? I believe most Christians would say that God has shown them truths in His word and that God speaks to them through the Holy Spirit. When I used to go to church I would hear pastors say "Look at what God has shown me this week, He's really been putting this on my heart lately and showing me some awesome things".

Now take the fact that you are a Calvinist, and that you disagree with some things that an Armeniest believes. You probably listen to some pastors or teachers that are Calvinist as well right? Well lets say Calvinist pastor Bob gets up on Sunday morning and says "let me tell you what I've been learning this week, God has been showing me so much". And proceeds to pound out a sermon on limited atonement.

You say there is bias in us. When you believe that God is speaking to you and showing you a truth, (like pastor Bob here believes), how confident are you that the leading or guiding or showing of a truth is God and not yourself? Are you confident that some of it is God but not all of it? If we cannot differentiate between the voice of God and the voice of ourself, then what good does it do to seek God's guidance in anything?

"Ah!", but you say. "I am confident that it was God's guiding and His voice that was speaking to me" Ok. But then another Christian down the road will say "God is showing me so many great things", and those things that he believes he was shown by God will disagree with what you said that you were shown by God.

The fact that some of these disagreements are over small matters is not important. What is important is that two people seeking the Spirit's guidance will come to different conclusions. If we were trying to figure things out ourselves, then of course we would come to different conclusions.

Like wwjd_kilden said:



But, if 10 witnesses went to God and asked God what happened, and He spoke to each of them, how different should the stories be? They could be told in a different way, but there should be no inconsistencies or disagreements, because God told them what happened.

As Absolem said:



God is not the author of confusion but He leads people to conclusions that disagree with each other? That can't be happening. So how can you know what you are hearing is God? Shouldn't Christians that say they have a close personal relationship with Jesus and have an indwelling of the Holy Spirit be pretty certain when they hear from or are being led by God about truths in His word? If if they cannot be fairly certain, then when can you ever say for sure that it is God's voice or your own inner voice. And what confidence can we then have in any truth we think we know about God?

My point is that if God is the true God, and Christians are being guided by a Him and have a personal relationship with him, why are we not on the same page? You all brought up some good points about how we are human, and we have different perspectives, and have bias.

But now, how are we to know that it is God or ourselves leading us to some truth or speaking to us, and if we cannot KNOW that, what confidence have we in anything that we say we know or believe about God?

These are good questions. I believe that there is only one truth. If people are in disagreement about some issue, one is in error and one is not. I think the fact that these disagreements are about secondary or tertiary issues is kind of important. For example, there are some things that are common among all Christians of every sect: the trinity, the deity of Christ, His perfection here on Earth, His sacrificial death, His resurrection, salvation by grace. These things are what binds us together. This is the one faith. The Church. I did not say salvation by works, because salvation by works is not the gospel.

I suppose if person A says that the Holy Spirit is showing them something and person B says the Holy Spirit is showing them the opposite- one is mistaken. I don't say one of them is unsaved, but one is mistaken.

I can give you an example from my own life. My grandfather does not believe in eating blood. He reads Deuteronomy where it speaks of life being in blood, and I think he thinks it is wrong because of this, along with Christ being crucified and shedding His blood. He really believes that God has shown him that eating blood is wrong. When I was a kid, I dearly loved to suck the marrow out of bones (not ladylike, I know). It bothered my grandfather and I was told not to do it. When I was a mouthy teenager, I tried to argue with him, because of the passage in Acts where God shows Peter that he can eat all things, no worries. You see, I believed God was showing the opposite thing from my grandfather. One of us is wrong and one of us is right. Either it is alright to eat blood, or it isn't.

This does not mean we are not both saved, we are. It also does not mean that the Spirit does not lead both of us, He does. It just means one of us has more light about this subject than the other (a tertiary issue at best). I know it would be a sin for him to eat blood, while it is not a sin for me- although it would be a sin for me to do so in his presence since it bothers him.

I don't know if this has helped you answer your question or not. I think it has to do with how much light a person has.

 

[HelloWorld1]

Different intepretations is not the major issue here, because you are more focused on how other people approach Scripture when it should be you searching to see if anything is true in the Scriptures.

So in other words... don't worry about it, it's not an issue, you should be concerned with your own searching... That's sidestepping the question that I posed.

By the way, I have searched the scriptures many times. I am not just concerned with how other people approach it. Let me rephrase my quote.

You're saying that not being able to differentiate between what MY inner self or MY bias is telling ME, and what God is telling ME is not an issue? That when I used to believe that I had the Holy Spirit that ministered to ME and I would pray about an issue and I would come up with an answer that disagrees with another Christian that prayed about the same thing? And we both said that God was leading us to our conclusion?

Now I know you will probably say "But you weren't a true believer, so of course God was not guiding you". Hence why I used the example of other people besides myself.

My faith does not rest on how many denomination exists, how many opinions have been formed, my concern is what the Scriptures say true at all? One person may say this and another that, do any of them hold water?

It really does come down to weather the scriptures are true or not. But my question still stands. If Christians are earnestly seeking God and searching for His guidance they should be in agreement as to what the Scriptures say.

Ok. Well let's ignore what other people are saying and their opinions for right now and look at ourselves... I am questioning faith and am not a believer. But you are a believer. How do you know that when God speaks to you, it is Him and not your own inner voice or your bias?

 

[BoomPowUmm]

Satan is trying to infiltrate the church.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I grew up methodist so by the time I got old enough to drive I began to question everything I knew. To me I wanted to know if what I knew was from God or ingrained into me by my parents and church. This led me down a very hard path of soul searching and re-examination of self and scripture.

I went to Baptist churches and non-denominational since I felt they may be the closest to what I saw in scriptures. But this only left me with an aching feeling of something was missing.

So this gave me the thought to read the Bible from cover to cover and instead of using church to filter what I see, I would now filter everything through the Bible first.

After a year and a half, my soul was set on fire being awakened from slumber, a dormant spiritual sleep that led me to feed the spiritual hunger in the first place as my soul was being quenched with a thirst for more.

Scripture has always come easily to me even when reading it the first time. Its part of my spiritual gifts but this fire led me to finally choose where my beliefs closely fit. I began to study closely the methodist beliefs with one on one sessions for a year with my preacher asking the very same questions many ask on here. I filtered it through scripture and now without a doubt, I can feel the Spirit agreeing with me that this is where I belong. No denomination is perfect on belief but the one you choose should be close and should be producing the fruit of the Spirit and building up Gods Kingdom. Not focused on just money, worship or other things but on the great commission and discipleship.

Now I feel free to let the Spirit in me be free to burn as bright as it will let me shine it. Sadly many won't ever see this kind of freedom because many do not demolish their current foundation of old beliefs and replace it with the foundation of the word of God and then build everything else on top of scripture foundation. Many are building off of denominational, parent, teachers, or lies of the devil.

You ask how do we know if the Spirit is speaking to us? My answer is when the Spirit speaks to me I can feel it in every fiber of my body and it will 100% be in agreement with scripture. If something comes to you and you feel a little off about it well it probably is the wrong Spirit speaking to you or it will be the Holy Spirit leading to enlightenment drawing you closer to scriptures to show you a deeper spiritual connection. Either way, test the Sprits with the Word of God.

 

[Adstar]

Here is a question I have had for awhile. Why are there so many different sects of Christianity? And within those sects, often very different beliefs about many different issues.

For example, some Christians are Calvinists, while some Christians are Armeniests, and most Christians are in the middle of that spectrum. Some Christians are adamant about only reading the KJV Bible, and other Christians will read and teach from NIV or other translations. Some Christians believe in a Lordship salvation and other Christians believe there can be such a thing as a carnal Christian. Some Cristians are adement that God still has certain plans that are only for the nation of Israel, and other Christians believe that all Christians are now the new Israel.

Now most issues are that are not agreed upon are not the core truths of Christianity (such as the resurrection), but why, with the Holy Spirit supposedly indwelling each believer, are we not on the same page, not even close? And then you have pastors that pray and examine the scriptures all week and disagree with another pastor down the road that prays and examines all week about important topics? While both supposedly being guided by the Holy Spirit...

Well simple answer is the Holy Spirit is not guiding everyone on all the issues you have put forward as examples..

1 Corinthians 11: KJV
17 "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. {18} For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. {19} For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you."

 

[wwjd_kilden]

Like wwjd_kilden said:



But, if 10 witnesses went to God and asked God what happened, and He spoke to each of them, how different should the stories be? They could be told in a different way, but there should be no inconsistencies or disagreements, because God told them what happened.

As Absolem said:



God is not the author of confusion but He leads people to conclusions that disagree with each other? That can't be happening. So how can you know what you are hearing is God? Shouldn't Christians that say they have a close personal relationship with Jesus and have an indwelling of the Holy Spirit be pretty certain when they hear from or are being led by God about truths in His word? If if they cannot be fairly certain, then when can you ever say for sure that it is God's voice or your own inner voice. And what confidence can we then have in any truth we think we know about God?

My point is that if God is the true God, and Christians are being guided by a Him and have a personal relationship with him, why are we not on the same page? You all brought up some good points about how we are human, and we have different perspectives, and have bias.

But now, how are we to know that it is God or ourselves leading us to some truth or speaking to us, and if we cannot KNOW that, what confidence have we in anything that we say we know or believe about God?

Agreed.
I've never experienced what others describe as God telling them what to do, so I really don't know what makes people say "God told me". I act on what seems right at the time, and often on random hunches.

It's a good question, because often people with opposing views both claim that God told them they are right

 

[Absolem]

Absolem said:



God is not the author of confusion but He leads people to conclusions that disagree with each other? That can't be happening. So how can you know what you are hearing is God? Shouldn't Christians that say they have a close personal relationship with Jesus and have an indwelling of the Holy Spirit be pretty certain when they hear from or are being led by God about truths in His word? If if they cannot be fairly certain, then when can you ever say for sure that it is God's voice or your own inner voice. And what confidence can we then have in any truth we think we know about God?

My point is that if God is the true God, and Christians are being guided by a Him and have a personal relationship with him, why are we not on the same page? You all brought up some good points about how we are human, and we have different perspectives, and have bias.

But now, how are we to know that it is God or ourselves leading us to some truth or speaking to us, and if we cannot KNOW that, what confidence have we in anything that we say we know or believe about God?

our truth about God comes from scripture. There's understanding high enough to lead people to Jesus. People have come to Jesus hearing Calvinist philosophy and people have come to Jesus hearing Armenian philosophy or theology I should say. That's all that matters. That people come to know and love Jesus.