Why the story of Job occurred in the 6th century.

[tttallison]

God does not put idle words in his letters to us. The bible is like a very complex puzzle with thousands of very small pieces. The pieces are scattered within the 66 books. The bible is its own dictionary. Without putting all the pieces together we will never have a clear picture.

God says those that seek me early shall find me. Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

In the first clause of the very first verse of the book of Job we are presented with two major clues for understanding who Job is.

Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz,----------------.

The only places the name of Uz is mentioned in the Bible is in the book job, and then by Jeremiah twice. Jeremiah mentions the land of Uz in Jeremiah 25:20 and in Lamentations 4:21. The only group mentioned in respect to the land of Uz is the Edomites.

Job 1:1 -----------------------------------------, whose name was Job;--------------------------------.

Job’s name means hated. God said Esau have I hated.

It is my opinion that Job represents the Edomites as Jacob represents the Israelites. Job represents the twin who lost his birthright but obtained a blessing.

List of clues that point to Job representing the Edomites.​

• Job was the greatest man in the Land of the Edomites.
• Job's best friend was an Edomite.
• Job's name means hated.
• Job received the blessing of Esau.
• Job received the cup of woe that was promised to the daughter of Edom.

Job 34:29 When he giveth quietness, who then can make trouble? and when he hideth his face, who then can behold him? whether it be done against a nation, or against a man only:

The cup of woe was first received by Israel in the 6th century at the destruction of Jerusalem. The cup of woe was then to be passed to the daughter of Edom.

 

[homwardbound]

I find this view, you are given interesting. What I see is Job would not deny God and did not deny God at all
A fantastic tale for me to see to see to not deny God, even in my woes I have had or ever might have again
Believe, continue, receive and continue to go through any adversities too
Then see new one day and then more and more every day as God permits this truth
Hebrews 6:3 that begins for me at Hebrews 5:12- Chapter 6 for me to see and behold this amazing gift at no charge to anyone, not even Son. why not Son who went through death.
He did that willingly to save us. Amazing to me anyways, thanks good post

 

[tttallison]

I find this view, you are given interesting. What I see is Job would not deny God and did not deny God at all
A fantastic tale for me to see to see to not deny God, even in my woes I have had or ever might have again
Believe, continue, receive and continue to go through any adversities too
Then see new one day and then more and more every day as God permits this truth
Hebrews 6:3 that begins for me at Hebrews 5:12- Chapter 6 for me to see and behold this amazing gift at no charge to anyone, not even Son. why not Son who went through death.
He did that willingly to save us. Amazing to me anyways, thanks good post

Thank you for replying.

In doing a word search on the book of Job you will find that an amazing amount of the words do not occur in use prior to the book of Job, and prior to the book of Psalms. This would be consistent with a date of the seventh century B.C. or later.

The Jews would have a problem dating Job prior to the Law. The Jewish mindset would have a problem accepting a Gentile book beyond the time of the Law.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

God does not put idle words in his letters to us. The bible is like a very complex puzzle with thousands of very small pieces. The pieces are scattered within the 66 books. The bible is its own dictionary. Without putting all the pieces together we will never have a clear picture.

God says those that seek me early shall find me. Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

In the first clause of the very first verse of the book of Job we are presented with two major clues for understanding who Job is.

Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz,----------------.

The only places the name of Uz is mentioned in the Bible is in the book job, and then by Jeremiah twice. Jeremiah mentions the land of Uz in Jeremiah 25:20 and in Lamentations 4:21. The only group mentioned in respect to the land of Uz is the Edomites.

Job 1:1 -----------------------------------------, whose name was Job;--------------------------------.

Job’s name means hated. God said Esau have I hated.

It is my opinion that Job represents the Edomites as Jacob represents the Israelites. Job represents the twin who lost his birthright but obtained a blessing.

List of clues that point to Job representing the Edomites.​

• Job was the greatest man in the Land of the Edomites.
• Job's best friend was an Edomite.
• Job's name means hated.
• Job received the blessing of Esau.
• Job received the cup of woe that was promised to the daughter of Edom.

Job 34:29 When he giveth quietness, who then can make trouble? and when he hideth his face, who then can behold him? whether it be done against a nation, or against a man only:

The cup of woe was first received by Israel in the 6th century at the destruction of Jerusalem. The cup of woe was then to be passed to the daughter of Edom.

“The only places the name of Uz is mentioned in the Bible is in the book job, “

Uz was a descendant of Noah after the floods mentioned in genesis 10 and ancestor of Abraham. Mentioned again i the geneology of genesis later

“And the children of Aram; Uz, and Hul, and Gether, and Mash.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭10:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

aram was a son of Shem ancestor of Abraham and descendant of Noah the land of uz would have been established in the times and generations shortly after the flood which also would put Job , in the line of Seth and Noah and Shem and eventually Abraham and Jesus

 

[tttallison]

“The only places the name of Uz is mentioned in the Bible is in the book job, “

Uz was a descendant of Noah after the floods mentioned in genesis 10 and ancestor of Abraham. Mentioned again i the geneology of genesis later

“And the children of Aram; Uz, and Hul, and Gether, and Mash.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭10:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

aram was a son of Shem ancestor of Abraham and descendant of Noah the land of uz would have been established in the times and generations shortly after the flood which also would put Job , in the line of Seth and Noah and Shem and eventually Abraham and Jesus

Pilgrimshope greetings,

The book of Lamentations has "the land of Uz" per verse Lam 4:21 Rejoice and be glad, O daughter of Edom, that dwellest in the land of Uz; the cup also shall pass through unto thee: thou shalt be drunken, and shalt make thyself naked.

The book of Jeremiah has "the land of Uz" as well in Jer 25:20 And all the mingled people, and all the kings of the land of Uz, and all the kings of the land of the Philistines, and Ashkelon, and Azzah, and Ekron, and the remnant of Ashdod,

Jeremiah was sent to the land of Uz to testify against these kings. The timeframe for Jeremiah doing that was late 7th century or early 6th century.

You are confusing a man named Uz with the land of Uz. Who knows if the land referred to in the 7th century was named after a man born approximately 17 centuries earlier.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Pilgrimshope greetings,

The book of Lamentations has "the land of Uz" per verse Lam 4:21 Rejoice and be glad, O daughter of Edom, that dwellest in the land of Uz; the cup also shall pass through unto thee: thou shalt be drunken, and shalt make thyself naked.

The book of Jeremiah has "the land of Uz" as well in Jer 25:20 And all the mingled people, and all the kings of the land of Uz, and all the kings of the land of the Philistines, and Ashkelon, and Azzah, and Ekron, and the remnant of Ashdod,

Jeremiah was sent to the land of Uz to testify against these kings. The timeframe for Jeremiah doing that was late 7th century or early 6th century.

You are confusing a man named Uz with the land of Uz. Who knows if the land referred to in the 7th century was named after a man born approximately 17 centuries earlier.

Yes during the dividing of the nations woth the three sons of Noah ? How do you think the lands were named ? Named of the hiers , uz was the original hier of the land that job was living in

 

[tttallison]

Yes during the dividing of the nations woth the three sons of Noah ? How do you think the lands were named ? Named of the hiers , uz was the original hier of the land that job was living in

Maybe, but it was the 6th century B.C. that Job was living in it.

 

[SomeDisciple]

Some scholars that have analyzed the hebrew say it is a more ancient from of Hebrew and that the book pre-dates Genesis.... so are you suggesting that the authorship of Genesis is even later than 6th century?

 

[homwardbound]

My learning I got, get out of Job no matter when written or not is:
trust God do not deny God no matter what anything appears as
i see the last chapter, the escape I not denying God
then deeper inSonJesus as risen after willingly going through those troubles.to raise us as new too, to be able to go through hardships too, depending on that last chapter of Job that is what I get. Gotthanks

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Some scholars that have analyzed the hebrew say it is a more ancient from of Hebrew and that the book pre-dates Genesis.... so are you suggesting that the authorship of Genesis is even later than 6th century?

This is the impression I've always had: after Abraham and before Moses. Elihu (chapter 32) was a Buzite; Buz was the 2nd son of Abraham's brother Nahor

 

[tttallison]

Some scholars that have analyzed the hebrew say it is a more ancient from of Hebrew and that the book pre-dates Genesis.... so are you suggesting that the authorship of Genesis is even later than 6th century?

No. I believe he was contemporary with Daniel, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel.

 

[tttallison]

This is the impression I've always had: after Abraham and before Moses. Elihu (chapter 32) was a Buzite; Buz was the 2nd son of Abraham's brother Nahor

The Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon makes a connection between the descendance of Elihu's father and the father of Ezekiel.

Another problem you have is that you have to change Ram to Aram. Two different Hebrew words.

The biggest problem I see is the connection of Job to Israel as seen in Lamentations.

Lam 4:21 Rejoice and be glad, O daughter of Edom, that dwellest in the land of Uz; the cup also shall pass through unto thee: thou shalt be drunken, and shalt make thyself naked.

Lam 4:22 The punishment of thine iniquity is accomplished, O daughter of Zion; he will no more carry thee away into captivity: he will visit thine iniquity, O daughter of Edom; he will discover thy sins.

The relationship between the book of Job and the writings of Jeremiah​

As we compare the book of Job with Lamentations we see that the woes of Israel run parallel with the woes of Job.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:1 I am the man that hath seen affliction by the rod of his wrath.

Job 9:34 Let him take his rod away from me, and let not his fear terrify me.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:2 He hath led me, and brought me into darkness, but not into light.

Job 3:4 Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it. Job 19:8 He hath fenced up my way that I cannot pass, and he hath set darkness in my paths.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:3 Surely against me is he turned; he turns his hand against me all the day.

Job 30:21 You have become cruel to me; with your strong hand you oppose yourself against me.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:4 My flesh and my skin has he made old; he hath broken my bones.

Job 30:30 My skin is black upon me and my bones are burned with heat.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:5 He has builded against me, and compassed me with gall and travel.

Job 16:13 His archers compass me round about, he cleaves my reins asunder, and does not spare; he pours out my gall upon the ground.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:6 He has set me in dark places, as they that be dead of old.

Job 19:8 He has fenced up my way that I cannot pass, and he hath set darkness in my paths.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:7 He has hedged me about, that I cannot get out: he has made my chain heavy.

Job 3:23 Why is light given to a man whose way is hid, and whom God hath hedged in.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:8 Also when I cry and shout, he shuts out my prayer.

Job 19:7 Behold, I cry out of wrong, but I am not heard: I cry aloud, but there is no judgment.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:9 He has enclosed my ways with hewn stone, he has made my paths crooked.

Job 30:13 They mar my path, they set forward my calamity, they have no helper.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:10 He was unto me as a bear lying in wait, and as a lion in secret places.

Job 10:16 --. You hunt me as a fierce lion: and again you show yourself marvelous upon me.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:11 He has turned aside my ways, and pulled me in pieces: he has made me desolate.

Job 16:7 But now he has made me weary: you have made desolate all my company.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:12 He has bent his bow, and set me as a mark for the arrow.

Job 6:4 For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:13 He caused the arrows of his quiver to enter into my reins.

Job 16:13 His archers compass me round about, he cleaveth my reins asunder, and doth not spare; he poureth out my gall upon the ground.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:14 I was derision to all my people; and their song all the day.

Job 30:1,9 But now they that are younger than I have me in derision, whose fathers I would have disdained to have set with the dogs of my flock.--And now I am their song, yes, I am their byword.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:15 He has filled me with bitterness; he has made me drunk with wormwood.

Job 9:18 He will not suffer me to take my breath, but fills me with bitterness.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:16 He has also broken my teeth with gravel stones, he has covered me with ashes.

Job 30:19 He has cast me into the mire, and I am become like dust and ashes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:17 And you have removed my soul far off from peace: I forgot prosperity.

Job 7:15 So that my Soul chooses strangling, and death rather than my life.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:18 And I said, my strength and my hope is perished from the Lord.

Job 19:10 He has destroyed me on every side, and I am gone; and mine hope has he removed like a tree.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Maybe, but it was the 6th century B.C. that Job was living in it.

Honestly I don’t know what century it was written in i only have an opinion and from things written in the Bible I’d say it’s probably from the first half of genesis in that time period

700-600 bc was the time when Jerusalem went into captivity in Babylon. But I don’t o or of any evidence of when it’s written only various opinions

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon makes a connection between the descendance of Elihu's father and the father of Ezekiel.

What keyword do I use to find this information? I have the lexicon

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon makes a connection between the descendance of Elihu's father and the father of Ezekiel.

This is all I can find on Elihu and Barachel in Gesenius

אֱלִיהוּא (id.) pr. n.—(1) [Elihu], the son of Barachel the Buzite, a friend of Job, his fourth opponent in dispute, Job chaps. 32–35. Sometimes written אֱלִיהוּ Job 32:4; 35:1.—(2) m. 1 Sa. 1:1.—(3) m. 1 Ch. 12:20.

בָּרַכְאֵל (“whom God blessed”), [Barachel], pr.n. of the father of Elihu, Job 32:2, 6.

 

[posthuman]

The Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon makes a connection between the descendance of Elihu's father and the father of Ezekiel.

Another problem you have is that you have to change Ram to Aram. Two different Hebrew words.

The biggest problem I see is the connection of Job to Israel as seen in Lamentations.

Lam 4:21 Rejoice and be glad, O daughter of Edom, that dwellest in the land of Uz; the cup also shall pass through unto thee: thou shalt be drunken, and shalt make thyself naked.

Lam 4:22 The punishment of thine iniquity is accomplished, O daughter of Zion; he will no more carry thee away into captivity: he will visit thine iniquity, O daughter of Edom; he will discover thy sins.

The relationship between the book of Job and the writings of Jeremiah​

As we compare the book of Job with Lamentations we see that the woes of Israel run parallel with the woes of Job.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:1 I am the man that hath seen affliction by the rod of his wrath.

Job 9:34 Let him take his rod away from me, and let not his fear terrify me.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:2 He hath led me, and brought me into darkness, but not into light.

Job 3:4 Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it. Job 19:8 He hath fenced up my way that I cannot pass, and he hath set darkness in my paths.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:3 Surely against me is he turned; he turns his hand against me all the day.

Job 30:21 You have become cruel to me; with your strong hand you oppose yourself against me.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:4 My flesh and my skin has he made old; he hath broken my bones.

Job 30:30 My skin is black upon me and my bones are burned with heat.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:5 He has builded against me, and compassed me with gall and travel.

Job 16:13 His archers compass me round about, he cleaves my reins asunder, and does not spare; he pours out my gall upon the ground.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:6 He has set me in dark places, as they that be dead of old.

Job 19:8 He has fenced up my way that I cannot pass, and he hath set darkness in my paths.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:7 He has hedged me about, that I cannot get out: he has made my chain heavy.

Job 3:23 Why is light given to a man whose way is hid, and whom God hath hedged in.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:8 Also when I cry and shout, he shuts out my prayer.

Job 19:7 Behold, I cry out of wrong, but I am not heard: I cry aloud, but there is no judgment.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:9 He has enclosed my ways with hewn stone, he has made my paths crooked.

Job 30:13 They mar my path, they set forward my calamity, they have no helper.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:10 He was unto me as a bear lying in wait, and as a lion in secret places.

Job 10:16 --. You hunt me as a fierce lion: and again you show yourself marvelous upon me.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:11 He has turned aside my ways, and pulled me in pieces: he has made me desolate.

Job 16:7 But now he has made me weary: you have made desolate all my company.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:12 He has bent his bow, and set me as a mark for the arrow.

Job 6:4 For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:13 He caused the arrows of his quiver to enter into my reins.

Job 16:13 His archers compass me round about, he cleaveth my reins asunder, and doth not spare; he poureth out my gall upon the ground.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:14 I was derision to all my people; and their song all the day.

Job 30:1,9 But now they that are younger than I have me in derision, whose fathers I would have disdained to have set with the dogs of my flock.--And now I am their song, yes, I am their byword.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:15 He has filled me with bitterness; he has made me drunk with wormwood.

Job 9:18 He will not suffer me to take my breath, but fills me with bitterness.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:16 He has also broken my teeth with gravel stones, he has covered me with ashes.

Job 30:19 He has cast me into the mire, and I am become like dust and ashes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:17 And you have removed my soul far off from peace: I forgot prosperity.

Job 7:15 So that my Soul chooses strangling, and death rather than my life.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lamentations 3:18 And I said, my strength and my hope is perished from the Lord.

Job 19:10 He has destroyed me on every side, and I am gone; and mine hope has he removed like a tree.

the relative similarity of some lamenting phrases in the two books could be explained by Job being a more ancient text, that Jeremiah was familiar with.

there is also a phrase or two in Isaiah that is similar: it doesn't mean they were written concurrently, nor that Job quotes Isaiah; it could just as easily be Isaiah quoting Job, or both expressing a similar thought, naturally using similar language.

one key thing about Job is that it's language is a complex mix of older Aramaic and Hebrew - what we read in English as the same may be very different pre-translation. words are not ap lled the same as they are in normal Hebrew, and some words are not Hebrew words at all.
some believe this indicates Job is far more ancient, perhaps having been translated into Hebrew, and some believe the author intentionally wrote it to sound archaic.

another sticky point is that throughout the discourse between Job and his friends there is zero mention of the Law. that makes it difficult to argue that it was written after the Law was given.

 

[posthuman]

words are not ap lled the same as they are in normal Hebrew, and some words are not Hebrew words at all.

typo i didn't catch - many of the words are like Hebrew but aren't spelled the same, and many others are not Hebrew at all.

 

[tttallison]

What keyword do I use to find this information? I have the lexicon

It was the blue letter bible which referenced the Gesenius. It connected buzite meaning from buz between Elihu's father and Ezekiel's father.

בּוּזִי Strongs 940

בּוּזִי Strongs 941

 

[tttallison]

another sticky point is that throughout the discourse between Job and his friends there is zero mention of the Law. that makes it difficult to argue that it was written after the Law was given.

If Job was an Edomite, as was Eliphaz, they would not mention a law that they were not under.

 

[PennEd]

God does not put idle words in his letters to us. The bible is like a very complex puzzle with thousands of very small pieces. The pieces are scattered within the 66 books. The bible is its own dictionary. Without putting all the pieces together we will never have a clear picture.

God says those that seek me early shall find me. Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

In the first clause of the very first verse of the book of Job we are presented with two major clues for understanding who Job is.

Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz,----------------.

The only places the name of Uz is mentioned in the Bible is in the book job, and then by Jeremiah twice. Jeremiah mentions the land of Uz in Jeremiah 25:20 and in Lamentations 4:21. The only group mentioned in respect to the land of Uz is the Edomites.

Job 1:1 -----------------------------------------, whose name was Job;--------------------------------.

Job’s name means hated. God said Esau have I hated.

It is my opinion that Job represents the Edomites as Jacob represents the Israelites. Job represents the twin who lost his birthright but obtained a blessing.

List of clues that point to Job representing the Edomites.​

• Job was the greatest man in the Land of the Edomites.
• Job's best friend was an Edomite.
• Job's name means hated.
• Job received the blessing of Esau.
• Job received the cup of woe that was promised to the daughter of Edom.

Job 34:29 When he giveth quietness, who then can make trouble? and when he hideth his face, who then can behold him? whether it be done against a nation, or against a man only:

The cup of woe was first received by Israel in the 6th century at the destruction of Jerusalem. The cup of woe was then to be passed to the daughter of Edom.

Interesting, but speculative, and if I had to guess, I'd say incorrect.

I agree with the posters that have said Job predates Moses and the Law.
Also, it seems unlikely to me that the writer, if he were contemporary to Jeremiah, wouldn't have simply identified Job as an Edomite.