Will a mass conversion among Jews signal the end of the world?

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Sharp

Sharp

Senior Member
May 5, 2009
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Good evening. :)

I'm searching for the meaning of Romans 11:15, and there is more than one view.

For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?

Some say that this means that when the Jewish nation finally accepts Christ on a large scale, it will signal the beginning of the end of life on earth and the resurrection of our bodies.

Some say that it is only figurative and that the idea of passing from death to life here means going from a state of misery to joy, or just a great spiritual revival.

Any ideas?
 
Isa 11:10 In that day the root of Jesse, who shall stand as a signal for the peoples--of him shall the nations inquire, and his resting place shall be glorious.
Isa 11:11 In that day the Lord will extend his hand yet a second time to recover the remnant that remains of his people, from Assyria, from Egypt, from Pathros, from Cush, from Elam, from Shinar, from Hamath, and from the coastlands of the sea.
Isa 11:12 He will raise a signal for the nations and will assemble the banished of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Isa 11:13 The jealousy of Ephraim shall depart, and those who harass Judah shall be cut off; Ephraim shall not be jealous of Judah, and Judah shall not harass Ephraim.
Isa 11:14 But they shall swoop down on the shoulder of the Philistines in the west, and together they shall plunder the people of the east. They shall put out their hand against Edom and Moab, and the Ammonites shall obey them.
Isa 11:15 And the LORD will utterly destroy the tongue of the Sea of Egypt, and will wave his hand over the River with his scorching breath, and strike it into seven channels, and he will lead people across in sandals.
Isa 11:16 And there will be a highway from Assyria for the remnant that remains of his people, as there was for Israel when they came up from the land of Egypt.

In what day?
Isa 11:6 The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 The cow and the bear shall graze; their young shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.

Hos 2:18 And I will make for them a covenant on that day with the beasts of the field, the birds of the heavens, and the creeping things of the ground. And I will abolish the bow, the sword, and war from the land, and I will make you lie down in safety.
Hos 2:19 And I will betroth you to me forever. I will betroth you to me in righteousness and in justice, in steadfast love and in mercy.
Hos 2:20 I will betroth you to me in faithfulness. And you shall know the LORD.
Hos 2:21 "And in that day I will answer, declares the LORD, I will answer the heavens, and they shall answer the earth,
Hos 2:22 and the earth shall answer the grain, the wine, and the oil, and they shall answer Jezreel,
Hos 2:23 and I will sow her for myself in the land. And I will have mercy on No Mercy, and I will say to Not My People, 'You are my people'; and he shall say, 'You are my God.'"

Eze 34:23 And I will set up over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he shall feed them: he shall feed them and be their shepherd.
Eze 34:24 And I, the LORD, will be their God, and my servant David shall be prince among them. I am the LORD; I have spoken.
Eze 34:25 "I will make with them a covenant of peace and banish wild beasts from the land, so that they may dwell securely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods.
Eze 34:26 And I will make them and the places all around my hill a blessing, and I will send down the showers in their season; they shall be showers of blessing.
Eze 34:27 And the trees of the field shall yield their fruit, and the earth shall yield its increase, and they shall be secure in their land. And they shall know that I am the LORD, when I break the bars of their yoke, and deliver them from the hand of those who enslaved them.
Eze 34:28 They shall no more be a prey to the nations, nor shall the beasts of the land devour them. They shall dwell securely, and none shall make them afraid.
Eze 34:29 And I will provide for them renowned plantations so that they shall no more be consumed with hunger in the land, and no longer suffer the reproach of the nations.
Eze 34:30 And they shall know that I am the LORD their God with them, and that they, the house of Israel, are my people, declares the Lord GOD.
Eze 34:31 And you are my sheep, human sheep of my pasture, and I am your God, declares the Lord GOD."

"Israel" will be saved when Christ comes back. See above reference text.
(Insert you're a dispensationalist heretic lol! here)
 
I am at work so not able to look the commentaries up, but this is from the ESV Study Bible.

Rom. 11:15 If the rejection of the majority of Israel has meant that many Gentiles (the world) are now reconciled to God through Christ, then the acceptance of the Jews (their future coming to Christ in large numbers) will bring about the final resurrection (life from the dead) and the end of history, so that from that point on people will praise God forever and ever (see v. 12). Others think “life from the dead” is a figurative expression for great spiritual revival.

that might not answer your question, but hope it helps. and as Pete says in his post above 'Israel will be saved when Christ comes back' all those in Christ..praise God.

in Love

Phil
 
I hold to covenant theology, but I believe that the conversion of the Jewish people will occur in the final days.
 
I read in a commentary that in the greek, the words which translate to "life from the dead" is not the same word used elsewhere in the bible to refer to the resurrection of our bodies, which begs the question, why use two different words/phrases to describe the same thing?
 
To get an idea from that verse that there will be a mass conversion of anything , is reading into it a bit. That's not Paul's main point.

Rom 11:25-27 is plainer in stating that a large number of Jews will be converted to Christ in the last days.

So we should see Jews not as our enemies, but as our misguided brothers yet to come home.
 
MahogonySnail said:
To get an idea from that verse that there will be a mass conversion of anything , is reading into it a bit. That's not Paul's main point.

Rom 11:25-27 is plainer in stating that a large number of Jews will be converted to Christ in the last days.

So we should see Jews not as our enemies, but as our misguided brothers yet to come home.
Click to expand...

Cool. But how do we know that life from the dead means the resurrection?
 
I believe it means a resurrection of their spiritual life. I would not say it is meaning the resurrection of the body i.e. the last days resurrection. But it is thought to occur in the last days, and so the event of the resurrections from the dead will not be too far off.

Paul is also using it as an expression. His point is...if the Jews rejection of Christ caused the whole world to be reconciled to God and saved... then what a WHOA moment it will be when the majority of the Jews accept Christ. I believe it will cause the ground to shake just like when Christ died on the cross.
 
Pete_Martinez said:
Isa 11:10 In that day the root of Jesse, who shall stand as a signal for the peoples--of him shall the nations inquire, and his resting place shall be glorious.
Isa 11:11 In that day the Lord will extend his hand yet a second time to recover the remnant that remains of his people, from Assyria, from Egypt, from Pathros, from Cush, from Elam, from Shinar, from Hamath, and from the coastlands of the sea.
Isa 11:12 He will raise a signal for the nations and will assemble the banished of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Isa 11:13 The jealousy of Ephraim shall depart, and those who harass Judah shall be cut off; Ephraim shall not be jealous of Judah, and Judah shall not harass Ephraim.
Isa 11:14 But they shall swoop down on the shoulder of the Philistines in the west, and together they shall plunder the people of the east. They shall put out their hand against Edom and Moab, and the Ammonites shall obey them.
Isa 11:15 And the LORD will utterly destroy the tongue of the Sea of Egypt, and will wave his hand over the River with his scorching breath, and strike it into seven channels, and he will lead people across in sandals.
Isa 11:16 And there will be a highway from Assyria for the remnant that remains of his people, as there was for Israel when they came up from the land of Egypt.

In what day?
Isa 11:6 The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 The cow and the bear shall graze; their young shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.

Hos 2:18 And I will make for them a covenant on that day with the beasts of the field, the birds of the heavens, and the creeping things of the ground. And I will abolish the bow, the sword, and war from the land, and I will make you lie down in safety.
Hos 2:19 And I will betroth you to me forever. I will betroth you to me in righteousness and in justice, in steadfast love and in mercy.
Hos 2:20 I will betroth you to me in faithfulness. And you shall know the LORD.
Hos 2:21 "And in that day I will answer, declares the LORD, I will answer the heavens, and they shall answer the earth,
Hos 2:22 and the earth shall answer the grain, the wine, and the oil, and they shall answer Jezreel,
Hos 2:23 and I will sow her for myself in the land. And I will have mercy on No Mercy, and I will say to Not My People, 'You are my people'; and he shall say, 'You are my God.'"

Eze 34:23 And I will set up over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he shall feed them: he shall feed them and be their shepherd.
Eze 34:24 And I, the LORD, will be their God, and my servant David shall be prince among them. I am the LORD; I have spoken.
Eze 34:25 "I will make with them a covenant of peace and banish wild beasts from the land, so that they may dwell securely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods.
Eze 34:26 And I will make them and the places all around my hill a blessing, and I will send down the showers in their season; they shall be showers of blessing.
Eze 34:27 And the trees of the field shall yield their fruit, and the earth shall yield its increase, and they shall be secure in their land. And they shall know that I am the LORD, when I break the bars of their yoke, and deliver them from the hand of those who enslaved them.
Eze 34:28 They shall no more be a prey to the nations, nor shall the beasts of the land devour them. They shall dwell securely, and none shall make them afraid.
Eze 34:29 And I will provide for them renowned plantations so that they shall no more be consumed with hunger in the land, and no longer suffer the reproach of the nations.
Eze 34:30 And they shall know that I am the LORD their God with them, and that they, the house of Israel, are my people, declares the Lord GOD.
Eze 34:31 And you are my sheep, human sheep of my pasture, and I am your God, declares the Lord GOD."

"Israel" will be saved when Christ comes back. See above reference text.
(Insert you're a dispensationalist heretic lol! here)
Click to expand...


Pete, that's pretty interesting mate.

What are some of your dispensationalist views?
 
Well I'm into reformed theology, 5 point calvinism. However, traditional reformed theology says that the church has replaced Israel. I do not believe the church has replaced Israel. As Paul wrote...

Rom 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree,
Rom 11:18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.
Rom 11:19 Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.
Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.
Rom 11:22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.
Rom 11:25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Rom 11:26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob";
Rom 11:27 "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."
Rom 11:28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

What ended up happening is that when the reformers worked on their soteriology (or the study of salvation), but not their eschatology, which kept on to the catholic notion that the church replaced Israel. Which is why most reformed theologians are amillenial
 
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