Will men be judged by their works?

[p_rehbein]

[h=1]....uh, well, dunno, you tell me......

Romans
2[/h]
1 .) Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 .) But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 .) And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 .) Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 .) But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 .) Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 .) To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 .) But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 .) Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 .) But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 .) For there is no respect of persons with God.

Revelation 22:10) And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
11 .) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 .) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

 

[dcontroversal]

God does not grade on the curve. It's 100% or 0%.
If we are judged by our works and have broken one point ...one iota ...of the Law, we have broken the WHOLE LAW because the Law is a whole unit not to be piece mealed.
As for me and my house, our hope is in Jesus Christ and HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS .
Those without Christ will be found naked in their own filthy rags of works righteousness.

Yes, he that breaks one of these the least of the commandments is guilty of the whole law....I will make my stand in the righteousness which is (OF) Christ and by the faith (OF) Christ----->given to all that believe in a biblical fashion!

 

[p_rehbein]

Yes, he that breaks one of these the least of the commandments is guilty of the whole law....I will make my stand in the righteousness which is (OF) Christ and by the faith (OF) Christ----->given to all that believe in a biblical fashion!

This discussion is not new here on CC........Scriptures clearly state that there are different levels of punishment and different levels of reward...............just so we are clear

 

[crossnote]

"Fool! Would you not like to know that faith without deeds is useless?You see now that it is by deeds, and not only by believing, that someone is justified.As a body without a spirit is dead, so is faith without deeds."- James: 2

Romans 3:27-28 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Uh oh, road block unless you look at the context of each passage...
James=justification before men.
Romans-justification before God.

 

[RedTent]

Whoever is teaching you is successfully drawing you into deeper confusion.
How much of ''then show our love through obedience.'' must you show until you have assurance that your saved? That's works righteousness at it's best. I guess you'll have room to boast.
And we don't take our sins to Christ after we repent. Rather repenting involves taking our sins /confessing them to Christ...again confusion.

You speak against Christ in every one of your posts. Christ said he did not come to change the law, Christ explained how he fulfilled it by adding our thoughts to be for the law instead of only our doing. You say the law leads to confusion, when God gave the law for clarification. You say that Christ cleansing us from sin that the law points out, and our turning our back on that law leads to our personally boasting rather than thanking Christ for His forgiveness. Sounds like that is your reaction to the holy forgiveness Christ offers. And that confessing and repenting adds to confusion. These things are not of the Holy Spirit, they are of opposing what Scripture tells us.

 

[faroukfarouk]

You speak against Christ in every one of your posts. Christ said he did not come to change the law, Christ explained how he fulfilled it by adding our thoughts to be for the law instead of only our doing. You say the law leads to confusion, when God gave the law for clarification. You say that Christ cleansing us from sin that the law points out, and our turning our back on that law leads to our personally boasting rather than thanking Christ for His forgiveness. Sounds like that is your reaction to the holy forgiveness Christ offers. And that confessing and repenting adds to confusion. These things are not of the Holy Spirit, they are of opposing what Scripture tells us.

The law was changed, though. No priest was from Judah, yet the Lord Jesus is a priest forever, and so the law was changed. As Hebrews says.

 

[tucksma]

I believe to some extent yes. Its both believe and faith combined. Faith without works is dead. You must believe, but if you truly believe you will then work. The Romans section saying saved by faith not by works gives an example of the one who is saved; Abraham. OBVIOUSLY Abraham had works. That is saying you cant JUST do works and be saved, rather that you have to have both based off the fact that faith without works is dead.

 

[RedTent]

The law was changed, though. No priest was from Judah, yet the Lord Jesus is a priest forever, and so the law was changed. As Hebrews says.

When we read scripture and it tells us the law is changed, that does not say to toss out the law. It says it changed. So we ask how was it changed, and for that we must go to Christ, for only Christ has the power to change the law. Lots of the gospels tell us how. That tells us the law remains as it is, only to be fulfilled. And when we ask Christ how He fulfilled it, Christ says he added that our desires and thoughts are included in the law. Christ illustrates with the law not to murder. That remains as stated, but added is not to call anyone a fool. It is the same with priests. The need for priests remains, who is the high priest is changed, but the role of being a priest has not changed.

 

[faroukfarouk]

When we read scripture and it tells us the law is changed, that does not say to toss out the law. It says it changed. So we ask how was it changed, and for that we must go to Christ, for only Christ has the power to change the law. Lots of the gospels tell us how. That tells us the law remains as it is, only to be fulfilled. And when we ask Christ how He fulfilled it, Christ says he added that our desires and thoughts are included in the law. Christ illustrates with the law not to murder. That remains as stated, but added is not to call anyone a fool. It is the same with priests. The need for priests remains, who is the high priest is changed, but the role of being a priest has not changed.

Hebrews 7.11&12 say that the law was not perfect, and the law was changed. The chapter goes on to say that a 'better hope' is indeed perfect, and it is by this, and not the law, that we dry nigh to God. We draw nigh to God through the great High Priest, the Lord Jesus, and the rest of the chapter says absolutely nothing about using the old priesthood.

 

[UriahSmith1844]

JUDGED OUT OF THE BOOKS

The Judgment -the Books were opened
"I beheld," says the prophet Daniel, "till thrones were placed, and One that was Ancient of Days did sit: His raiment was white as snow, and the hair of His head like pure wool; His throne was fiery flames, and the wheels thereof burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him: thousand thousands ministered unto Him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened." Daniel 7:9, 10

John in Revelation, describing the same scene, adds: "Another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." Revelation 20:12.

The book of life contains the names of all who have ever entered the service of God. "Rejoice, because your names are written in heaven." Luke 10:20. Paul said, "whose names are in the book of life." Philippians 4:3. Daniel, looking down to "a time of trouble, such as never was," said that God's people shall be delivered, "everyone that shall be found written in the book." And John the revelator says that those only shall enter the city of God whose names "are written in the Lamb's book of life." Daniel 12:1; Revelation 21:27.

"For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil." "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." Says the Saviour: "By thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Ecclesiastes 12:14; Matthew 12:36, 37. God "will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts." 1 Corinthians 4:5. "Behold, it is written before Me, . . . your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the Lord." Isaiah 65:6, 7.

The law of God is the standard by which the characters and the lives of men will be tested in the judgment. Says the wise man: "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment." Ecclesiastes 12:13, 14. The apostle James admonishes his brethren: "So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty." James 2:12
Jesus will appear as their advocate, to plead in their behalf before God. "If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." 1 John 2:1. "For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us." "Wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them." Hebrews 9:24; 7:25.

All who have truly repented of sin, and by faith claimed the blood of Christ as their atoning sacrifice, have had pardon entered against their names in the books of heaven; as they have become partakers of the righteousness of Christ, and their characters are found to be in harmony with the law of God, their sins will be blotted out, and they themselves will be accounted worthy of eternal life. The Lord declares, by the prophet Isaiah: "I, even I, am He that blotteth out thy transgressions for Mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins." Isaiah 43:25. Said Jesus: "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels." "Whosoever therefore shall confess Me before men, him will I confess also before My Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny Me before men, him will I also deny before My Father which is in heaven." Revelation 3:5; Matthew 10:32, 33.

 

[UriahSmith1844]

Confession and repentance is the key.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

"He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy." Proverbs 28:13


"Watch ye therefore: . . . lest coming suddenly He find you sleeping." Mark 13:35, 36.

Said Jesus: "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels." "Whosoever therefore shall confess Me before men, him will I confess also before My Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny Me before men, him will I also deny before My Father which is in heaven." Revelation 3:5; Matthew 10:32, 33.

You can deny Jesus in many ways, one way is by your works,

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

If you accept Jesus as your Mediator, rely upon His blood, and repent of your sins, then the work that He had wanted to do for you has been accomplished and you will be entitled to His Mediation.

You must stop rebelling against Him. Rebels will not be allowed into Heaven, for you would begin all of the same problems all over again that Lucifer started so long ago.

Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

 

[crossnote]

You speak against Christ in every one of your posts. Christ said he did not come to change the law, Christ explained how he fulfilled it by adding our thoughts to be for the law instead of only our doing. You say the law leads to confusion, when God gave the law for clarification. You say that Christ cleansing us from sin that the law points out, and our turning our back on that law leads to our personally boasting rather than thanking Christ for His forgiveness. Sounds like that is your reaction to the holy forgiveness Christ offers. And that confessing and repenting adds to confusion. These things are not of the Holy Spirit, they are of opposing what Scripture tells us.

Please correct your false portrayal of my position or I will have to. This is what upsets me about you, you represent the person falsely by saying things they didn't say. Talking about breaking the commandment of 'not bearing false witness!'

 

[phil112]

...........................God gave the law for clarification................

You'll have to show me where it says that. I don't remember seeing it in my bible.

 

[crossnote]

You speak against Christ in every one of your posts.

NOW look who makes false accusations.

Christ said he did not come to change the law,

True,(and I never said He did) but there was a change in the law due to a change in the Priesthood.Heb 7:12, although Christ FULFILLED all righteousness.

Christ explained how he fulfilled it by adding our thoughts to be for the law instead of only our doing.

That's not how He fulfilled the Law. Yes he corrected the misconceptions of the legalists outward obedience to the law showing it was to be kept from the heart; but He fulfilled it by keeping ALL that it prescribed including the prophecies regarding Himself [/QUOTE]

You say the law leads to confusion, when God gave the law for clarification.

Another false misrepresentation of my position. Show me ONE place where I said such. Again, you must be confusing me with someone else.

You say that Christ cleansing us from sin that the law points out, and our turning our back on that law leads to our personally boasting rather than thanking Christ for His forgiveness.

Again false.I said that those who rely on the law to merit righteousness have a reason to boast...but not before God. Instead our boasting is in Christ.

Sounds like that is your reaction to the holy forgiveness Christ offers. And that confessing and repenting adds to confusion. These things are not of the Holy Spirit, they are of opposing what Scripture tells us.

Repenting and confessing continues thru the Christian life. Is that confusing to you?

Redtent, I'm through wasting my time responding to you r continual false accusations of my stance on Scripture. I feel sorry that you are being led into confusion and will pray for you. I will be putting your posts on 'IGNORE', from henceforth and let the Lord judge your continuing errors. Feel free to pvt. msg. me if you need to

 

[CRC]

"Faith follows the thing heard" and that would require effort and works!!!!

 

[RedTent]

Please correct your false portrayal of my position or I will have to. This is what upsets me about you, you represent the person falsely by saying things they didn't say. Talking about breaking the commandment of 'not bearing false witness!'

If I have said things that are not true about you, I am truly sorry. From your posts my understanding of your position is that the changes that Christ made were so profound that rather than building on what His Father said, Christ wiped out much of it to start new again. If that was so, then much of what the Father says about our world would have to be wiped out and it would mean that those who believed you are absolutely right would be led down a wrong path, for God is our creator and the God we pray to "Our Father who art in heaven".

It is so important to our very life in Christ to know exactly what Christ changed and how. On that our eternal life depends. So often, when you post, alarm bells go off in my very being.

When you feel I am saying something scripture doesn't say you tell me so. I most certainly do not want to misrepresent your words, it would not be right.

 

[john832]

Hey Phil,

The bottom statement about Sodom and more tolerable proves that the lost will have varying degrees of suffering..
1st Corinthians 3 and the works of the saved being put to fire and the difference made between gold, silver and precious stones as opposed to wood hay and stubble which will be burnt----->yet they shall BE SAVED SO AS BY FIRE...saved with few to no works as opposed to saved with works of Gold Silver and Precious stones not to mention the following...

I think if you read this in context you will find that they are saved with little to no reward. It is not speaking of works here. Remember me? I am the guy who is always accused of salvation by works. In truth, salvation is the free gift and everyone receives it equally...

Mat 20:1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
Mat 20:2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
Mat 20:3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
Mat 20:4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.
Mat 20:5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
Mat 20:6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
Mat 20:7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
Mat 20:8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
Mat 20:9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
Mat 20:10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
Mat 20:11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
Mat 20:12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
Mat 20:13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
Mat 20:14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.

They all received the same. Now contrast that with this...

Luk 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
Luk 19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
Luk 19:14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
Luk 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
Luk 19:16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
Luk 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
Luk 19:18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
Luk 19:19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
Luk 19:20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
Luk 19:21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
Luk 19:22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
Luk 19:23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
Luk 19:24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
Luk 19:25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
Luk 19:26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
Luk 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Rewards are according to works, salvation is the free gift that comes from faith (and even that is not our own faith, it is a gift).

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Now read the following carefully and we see that salvation is the free gift but our rewards are earned...

1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[mlssufan01]

I learned a long time ago, that one of the main reasons people asked if saved people will be judged, is because they are doing something wrong they don't want to change. Now, that is a lot different than struggling with something and not being able to change. In any case, my point is, whoever wants to say that we are saved by grace, and that's the final binding contract of salvation (which I do believe), and you believe God is THAT good that He would let everyone in simply for believing in Jesus's death and resurrection and claiming it; then why wouldn't you follow Him with your actions? To just claim his benefit and then willfully live in sin is like insulting or spitting in the face of God, saying you don't really appreciate it. Thats just my thought. Where we have to be careful is judging someone else's sin, because we don't always know if it's a struggle or a willful sin.

 

[Hizikyah]

I learned a long time ago, that one of the main reasons people asked if saved people will be judged, is because they are doing something wrong they don't want to change. Now, that is a lot different than struggling with something and not being able to change. In any case, my point is, whoever wants to say that we are saved by grace, and that's the final binding contract of salvation (which I do believe), and you believe God is THAT good that He would let everyone in simply for believing in Jesus's death and resurrection and claiming it; then why wouldn't you follow Him with your actions? To just claim his benefit and then willfully live in sin is like insulting or spitting in the face of God, saying you don't really appreciate it. Thats just my thought. Where we have to be careful is judging someone else's sin, because we don't always know if it's a struggle or a willful sin.

Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."
One that is a part of the covenant ratified in the blood of the Messiah, has the Law of Yahweh or more accurately the Torah, written on their heart, how could one believe it shouldnt be followed, it shouldnt be read, or it applies no longer if they are truly a part of this covenant? I believe the only reason I love His instructions is because Yahweh has put this on my heart, years ago when I was lost I certainly did not enjoy His Instructions.
Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

"Law" is word #H8451 - torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law
Definition: usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.

Those still in opposition are not of Yahweh's Spirit:

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

 

[mailmandan]

Yes both the saved and the lost as in....

1. Saved-->Sins covered under the blood, judged according to their works both good and bad to determine the amount of inheritance they get to keep....Jesus gets it all as he was the only one to fully keep the Law

Amen! 1 Corinthians 3:13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; (of reward) but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

2. Lost--->sins not covered and judged according to their works to determine the level of suffering they will receive in the lake of fire....Remember---It shall be MORE tolerable in the day of judgment for Sodom than the generation that rejected Christ when he walked the earth in flesh

Amen! Matthew 23:14 - Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.