Will the mark alone send a person to eternal damnation?

[John146]

Jews that converted to Christianity were Christians... they were part of the 12 tribes. No?

Obviously, there were those in his audience that had not received the word and their souls were not saved.

James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

 

[KJV1611]

They were, past tense, part of the twelve tribes, but the term includes all members from those tribes that make up the nation of Israel as a whole. Most of the twelve tribes in James day rejected Jesus.

If you're a blood relative of the 12 tribes then you're still a blood relative of the 12 tribes. Becoming a Christian doesn't change your nationality. Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin... did he stop being that when we was converted?

Php 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

 

[KJV1611]

Obviously, there were those in his audience that had not received the word and their souls were not saved.

James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

There's no hidden special meaning of the term "the 12 tribes of Israel", it's their heritage, it's who they are.

 

[John146]

If you're a blood relative of the 12 tribes then you're still a blood relative of the 12 tribes. Becoming a Christian doesn't change your nationality. Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin... did he stop being that when we was converted?

Php 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Agreed, but the address is to the twelve tribes, that’s the entire nation of Israel, not Christians from the twelve tribes. In Christ, there are no twelve tribes. James would never address Jewish Christians as twelve tribes.

 

[KJV1611]

Agreed, but the address is to the twelve tribes, that’s the entire nation of Israel, not Christians from the twelve tribes. In Christ, there are no twelve tribes. James would never address Jewish Christians as twelve tribes.

It’s like you have some mystical interpretation of the twelve tribes. You don’t lose you’re heritage when you become a Christian. That’s like saying that I’m not an American anymore because I got saved.
What if James was addressing Jews only, would it have been ok to say “James to the Jews scattered abroad”?

Unsaved Jews had no reason to scatter, they were the ones persecuting and killing the Jewish converts.

 

[John146]

Unsaved Jews had no reason to scatter, they were the ones persecuting and killing the Jewish converts.

Exactly my point. Unsaved jews are also part of the twelve tribes. When James uses this address, it must include all members of the twelve tribes.

When will the twelve tribes be scattered? During the tribulation, Jacob’s trouble.

 

[John146]

It’s like you have some mystical interpretation of the twelve tribes.

Shall I post every usage of the term in scripture? Every usage of the term refers to the entire nation of Israel. So, if James is using this term to mean only Jewish Christians from the twelve tribes, then that usage would contradict every other usage in Scripture. I’m not willing to do that.

 

[CS1]

This is an interesting question.
I have many family members who know that I am Christian and believe the Word of God to be true.

I have family who asks me, "do you believe in the mark of the beast 666 ?".

After I explain what I think the book of Revolution is saying, many of my family say something very troubling to my spirit.
They say to me " I will not get the mark they will have to kill me and then I will go with Jesus.".

This mind-set is very unbiblical. why?

IF you are unwilling to repent, surrender to Jesus today when there is no persecution you are experiencing, living your life thinking you going to be here tomorrow to resist Satan when your lifestyle can't resist HIM right now, how are you going to be able to do so then?

You will not, you are deceived. Those who resist the devil MUST SUBMIT TO HIM TODAY. Not live your life the way you want to then think in my own power I will save myself.

You may die today, what mark or whose mark is on you now?

 

[KJV1611]

Exactly my point. Unsaved jews are also part of the twelve tribes. When James uses this address, it must include all members of the twelve tribes.

When will the twelve tribes be scattered? During the tribulation, Jacob’s trouble.

They were scattered when the Jews that killed Christ came to kill them. Do you realize that Paul was consenting to killing Stephen? During that time of great tribulation it was open season on Jewish converts. They had to flee or be killed. That was the time of Jacobs trouble.

 

[KJV1611]

Shall I post every usage of the term in scripture? Every usage of the term refers to the entire nation of Israel. So, if James is using this term to mean only Jewish Christians from the twelve tribes, then that usage would contradict every other usage in Scripture. I’m not willing to do that.

No need to post them I’m aware.

The book of James is written for the entire world just like the book of Romans or any other book in the Bible.

 

[garee]

Don’t give up. The millennium kingdom is something to look forward to. It’s going to happen. The King will return and reign on the throne of David in Jerusalem. He will judge all nations. Why give up?

The millennium "last days" (a unknown time period the golden measure of faith ) it began at Pentecost. We are reigning with Christ. He will execute his judgment on the last day. We walk by faith not of those who seek after a number (walk by sight) . We are not to be of the number.

2 Corinthians 10:11-13 King James Version (KJV) Let such an one think this, that, such as we are in word by letters when we are absent, such will we be also in deed when we are present. For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise. But we will not boast of things without our measure, but according to the measure of the rule which God hath distributed to us, a measure to reach even unto you.

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

 

[KJV1611]

I don’t think people understand just how bad it was back then. The city had a huge earthquake, the sun was blotted out at midday, dead bodies came out the grave and three days later they walked the streets of Jerusalem

Along with all this, the Jews were murdering and persecuting the Jews that turned to Christ. Jerusalem was the most dangerous place in the world for a Christian to be at that time in history.

 

[John146]

They were scattered when the Jews that killed Christ came to kill them. Do you realize that Paul was consenting to killing Stephen? During that time of great tribulation it was open season on Jewish converts. They had to flee or be killed. That was the time of Jacobs trouble.

Those Jews that tried to kill them, were part of the twelve tribes, so James must have been addressing them as well. The term is not only for Jewish converts. That would contradict Scripture.

 

[John146]

No need to post them I’m aware.

The book of James is written for the entire world just like the book of Romans or any other book in the Bible.

Well, the book of Romans as well as the rest of Paul’s epistles, are directly to the body of Christ, those who are in Christ. Paul instructs the Church how to live the crucified life in Christ. That’s not for lost people. Rightly dividing the word of truth is to determine which audience the doctrine applies, Jews, Gentiles or the Church of God.

 

[KJV1611]

Those Jews that tried to kill them, were part of the twelve tribes, so James must have been addressing them as well. The term is not only for Jewish converts. That would contradict Scripture.

James is no different than any other book in the Bible, it is written for everyone. But I know you’re hung up on James because you think James preaches a different gospel than Paul’s gospel but it doesn’t. James gospel is the exact same as Jesus gospel, Paul’s, and every other gospel writer. There is only one gospel.

 

[John146]

James is no different than any other book in the Bible, it is written for everyone. But I know you’re hung up on James because you think James preaches a different gospel than Paul’s gospel but it doesn’t. James gospel is the exact same as Jesus gospel, Paul’s, and every other gospel writer. There is only one gospel.

Well, I’m not part of the twelve tribes. Are there things I can glean from James? Of course, but it’s doctrine is mainly to the addressed audience. All Scripture is written for us, but not all of it is to us.

Is the following Church doctrine?

James 5
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

 

[garee]

Nope, not if you believe that the time period to whom James is writing is to the Jews right before the second coming of the Lord. Can Scripture be prophetic?

The Holy Spirit not James speaks to the whole world . He is the God of the whole world. Not the God of the Jewish flesh, all nation from Genesis.

Scripture God's word is prophetic. It tells of the things of prophecy, called prophesying.

It has nothing to do with the corrupted flesh it is speaking to as we plant the incorruptible seed by which all men are born of. God makes it absolutely clear .He purifies the heart of Gentile by the same work of his faith .Faith comes by hearing God as he gives us His understanding.

Learn the difference between the things of God not seen and those of men seen. Peter learned the hard way. Follow Christ not Peter .

Acts 15:8-10 King James Version (KJV) And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

 

[garee]

Well, I’m not part of the twelve tribes. Are there things I can glean from James? Of course, but it’s doctrine is mainly to the addressed audience. All Scripture is written for us, but not all of it is to us.

Is the following Church doctrine?

James 5
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

The 12 tribes represent the bride of Christ, the church the spiritual house made up of many lively stones .

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Learn to distinguish between the "things of God" the eternal, and "those of men" the temporal .Then you will be a the right road to understanding. Then you will know the prayer of faith has given you his understanding. Not the understanding of James or any man.

 

[John146]

The 12 tribes represent the bride of Christ, the church the spiritual house made up of many lively stones .

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Learn to distinguish between the "things of God" the eternal, and "those of men" the temporal .Then you will be a the right road to understanding. Then you will know the prayer of faith has given you his understanding. Not the understanding of James or any man.

All throughout Scripture, the twelve tribes is never a reference to the Church. You state this and then post a scripture that doesn’t even contain the term twelve tribes.

 

[Guojing]

Which part of Acts 3? This?

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Vs 20 is the critical part of Peter's sermon to Israel in Acts. Remember the final question the 11 asked Jesus before he ascended? Acts 1

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Peter's preaching to Israel in early Acts had a simple objective, "Convince the nation to repent of their crucifying of their Messiah and be baptized into their priesthood (Exodus 19:4-6), and then Jesus will come back to rule from Jerusalem, and usher them into the kingdom".

When Peter healed the man who was lame from birth, at the beginning of Acts 3, it was a sign to Israel that even though they were born lame since Abraham, Issac and Jacob when they kept rejecting the Father, the moment they believe in Jesus, they will leap for joy and finally enter into that promised Kingdom.