Will there be a fourth temple in Jerusalem?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,971
870
113
#21
I am no the one who has revealed this to all. These are revelations from God Hi,self.
Have you not read your Bible from Genesis to Revelation? The covenant was not "with the Jews" but with Abraham, and the Abrahamic Covenant also encompassed the New Covenant, since Christ was also the "seed" of Abraham. So were the twelve tribes.

So let's go back to square one:

THE TWELVE TRIBES ARE THE ONES TO POSSESS THE LAND
In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates (Gen 15:18) "The river of Egypt" can only be a reference to the Nile. So all the land between the Nile And the Euphrates was promised to Abraham's descendants.

NEW JERUSALEM IS THE ETERNAL HOME OF THE CHURCH
But the eternal home of the Church is the New Jerusalem, and that is only because of Christ and His finished work of redemption. So we also have this in Scripture: And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. (Gal 3:8) And the only way all nations could be blessed is through Christ. So we read this: Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ... And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal 3:16,29)

So we now see that the "seed" of Abraham includes (1) redeemed and restored Israel in the land of Greater Israel, (2) Christ, and (3) the Church.
You made the statement below in your post.

But the eternal home of the Church is the New Jerusalem.

We are a spiritual church and we have nothing to do with the cities of this world.

The present city of Jerusalem is meaningless to any Christian.

2 Corinthians 6:15
What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple
of the living God
. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will
be their God, and they will be my people.”

The New Jerusalem may also be a metaphor using imagery to describe the spiritual
temple that we are.

It's always a better bet to assume everything in the Old Testament has been fulfilled.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#22
You made the statement below in your post. But the eternal home of the Church is the New Jerusalem. We are a spiritual church and we have nothing to do with the cities of this world.
Which means that you know nothing about the New Jerusalem. Since it is a heavenly city, it cannot possibly be regarded as one of "the cities of this world". So please look up "New Jerusalem" in Strong's Concordance, and understand what it is.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
2,982
972
113
44
#23
Just because people call themselves "God's people" doesn't mean they are.
If a temple is built(and it will be) doesn't mean it will be God's temple.
Scripture states it will be there, the Antichrist will stand in it, but NOTHING says God claims it as His.
Temple, yes, God's temple no.
Not true. Jesus calls it the "holy place" in Matthew. The anti-Christ stands in Gods temple and desecrates it. How can a fake "Gods temple" be desecrated? Doesn't make sense.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
5,912
2,291
113
#24
Not true. Jesus calls it the "holy place" in Matthew. The anti-Christ stands in Gods temple and desecrates it. How can a fake "Gods temple" be desecrated? Doesn't make sense.
Yes that does pose a problem, funny I was thinking this very thing the other day.
There are so many problems with this futurist view, the appeal to emotion must be very strong. 🤨
 

DavyP

Active member
Aug 11, 2024
281
95
28
USA
#25
I was hoping that this would not be assumed to apply to the literal temple of Ezekiel in Jerusalem, within redeemed and restored Israel. But Pilgirimshope has done the same thing.

So what we have in Scripture are two entities -- the Church, which is the SPIRITUAL AND METAPHORICAL temple of God, and the glorious temple in Ezekiel, which will also be the dwelling place of God, and from where His glory will shine.
....
Well, there's actually more that God's Word reveals about the matter, and quite a bit of it requires that one study the Old Testament Bible histories written about Israel. How many of those in Christ today do that study? The mainstream Church I was raised in certainly didn't cover much Old Testament history about Israel. I've found there's not that many brethren that have covered much OT history about Israel, and I include even a lot of educated preachers. Some even believe the Old Testament Books are dead history, when there's still a lot of prophecy yet to occur written in them.

Why is it not many brethren understand about God splitting the old nation of Israel into two separate kingdoms and houses? That history starts in 1 Kings 11. God gave ten tribes to Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim to be "king of Israel" in the northern holy lands. The Jews... were only those of the southern "kingdom of Judah" at Jerusalem/Judea, of 3 tribes eventually, tribe of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, and a small remnant of the ten tribes that refused Jeroboam's idol worship in the north.

Thus the title of 'Jew' did not... apply to the ten tribe northern "kingdom of Israel". This fact is documented by the Jewish historian Josephus who lived circa 100 A.D.

What happened was, God eventually got tired of the gold calf idols in the northern kingdom that Jeroboam had setup, so He removed all ten tribes out of the holy land, captive in stages by the kings of Assyria to Assyria and the lands of the Medes. Only the Jews, the 3-tribe "kingdom of Judah" at Jerusalem/Judea remained in the land (see 2 Kings 17). The king of Assyria then replaced the ten tribes with peoples from Babylon, which became the Samaritans.

After a while, because only the Jews of the southern "kingdom of Judah" were left in the holy land, and the ten scattered tribes of Israel became 'LOST', it began to be assumed that all Israelites were Jews. That false assumption is not true, not then and not today either.

Per the Book of Hosea, God revealed what He would do to the ten tribed "house of Israel", or "kingdom of Israel". He was getting ready to end it. He commanded His prophet Hosea to go marry a prostitute and name each one of Hosea's children to show how the ten northern tribe kingdom had rebelled against Him, and He would claim they were no longer His people. But then also in Hosea, God showed that He would scatter them to the 'wilderness' so they would not find their way back (to the holy land), and let them have the full strength of their Baal lovers they had followed and had forgotten Him for. Hosea showed the ten tribes would lose their heritage of God's feast days, new moons, and sabbaths, and become as Gentiles, scattered among Gentiles. And they would be called 'lo-ammi' (not My people). But then the time would come when He would take the names of Baali out of their mouths that they called Him, and He would give them a 'new covenant', and they would call Him "Ishi". And eventually, where it was said to them that they were 'lo-ammi' (not My people), there it would be said to them, You are the sons of the living God (Hosea 1:10).

Apostle Paul quoted that last part above to Roman Gentile believers in Christ Jesus, per Romans 9. That means Apostle Paul included... the believing Gentiles in Christ within that Hosea prophecy, when God will call the future gathered lost ten tribes, "Ye are the sons of the living God."(Hosea 1:10). But that Hosea Scripture was originally written ONLY to the northern ten tribe "kingdom of Israel". And many brethren miss the fact that Paul quoted that Hosea prophecy in Romans 9 to the Gentiles in Christ's Church. Well, there's plenty passages in the Book of Isaiah to show that when the believing children of Israel are gathered to Christ in the future back to the lands promised their fathers, the believing Gentiles are gathered with them.

In reality what this means then, is that men's doctrine called 'Replacement Theology' does not actually exist. When Jesus does return, many will have a great surprise to discover just how many of the ten lost tribe Israelites have made up Christ's Church, and I mean that even from the start of Christian history in the West after the majority of Jews in Jerusalem rejected The Gospel of Jesus Christ. There really is no separation between God's true Israel and Christ's Church.

Ideas of separation between Christ's Church and Israel obviously began in the early Christian Church in the west, but also by the orthodox Jews who like to claim God's promises are only to them. Because of Jewish rejection of Christ Jesus, and the fomenting of hatred by the early Christian Churches in Europe against unbelieving Jews, because of the thought that they had Jesus crucified, this idea of separation became apparent. However, the reality is that the unbelieving do not represent God's true Israel, as God Himself promised the unbeliever will be cut off. Yet Paul in Romans 11 showed that God Himself blinded the majority of Jews away from The Gospel so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles. When Jesus returns, their spiritual blindness will be removed, Paul showed. Thus Paul tells us Christians to not be conceited about all that.

And since the 1830's when John Darby started preaching the pre-trib rapture theory, and a false version of Dispensationalism to go with it, that has wrongly pushed the idea of separation between Christ's Church and God's true Israel.
 

DavyP

Active member
Aug 11, 2024
281
95
28
USA
#26
Something else about the future temple of Ezekiel 40 thru 47:

Where do you think this "house" that Lord Jesus mentioned will be?

John 14:2-3
2
In My Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
KJV


The future Millennial sanctuary of Ezekiel 40 thru 47 is called God's "house".


Ezek 40:45-46
45 And he said unto me, "This
chamber, whose prospect is toward the south, is for the priests, the keepers of the charge of the house.
46 And the chamber whose prospect is toward the north is for the priests, the keepers of the charge of the altar: these are the sons of Zadok among the sons of Levi, which come near to the LORD to minister unto Him.
KJV


The word Zadok means 'The Just', or 'The Righteous'. Jesus is shown to be Melchisedec (King of Righteousness) in Hebrews 7. That title is from Old Testament Melchizedek of Genesis 14 who met Abraham and offered him 'bread and wine'. It's from Hebrew melek (king), and Hebrew tsadaq (righteous), and is where the title Zadok originates.

The Zadok in those Ezekiel 40 thru 47 chapters represents Christ's elect saints that will serve Him at His table. They will be made up of both literal believing Israelites, and believing Gentiles, as Christ's future priests.

The word "mansions" in John 14:2 means 'abodes' in the Greek. Jesus was referring to the future chambers of His elect priests in that future Ezekiel sanctuary that will be built when Jesus returns in the future.

So we should never be confused by this next 3rd Jewish temple the Orthodox unbelieving Jews are getting ready to build just prior to Christ's return. That 3rd temple will not be this sanctuary in Ezekiel that is associated with Christ's future "thousand years" reign. The coming Antichrist/false-Messiah will sit in the unbelieving Jew's 3rd temple prior to Christ's return on the last day of this world.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
#27
2 Corinthians 6:15
What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple
of the living God
. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will
be their God, and they will be my people.”
Wherever Paul talks about us as "temple," in the Greek he does not use the "definite article ['the']"...

( -- [your verse] https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/2co/6/1/t_conc_1084016 )

... yet in the two eschatological passages (2Th2:4 and Rev11:1) the phrase IS "THE temple of God" (the latter of these clearly DISTINGUISHING between "[measure] THE temple of God, [and the altar,]" from the "and THEM that worship THEREIN".




Besides that, Jesus' words in Matt24:15 ('the AOD [singular / singular] spoken of by Daniel the prophet') can ONLY be pointing back to the one in Dan12:11 ("AOD [singular / singular] SET UP [H5414--a word not too dissimilar from the "sitting" word in 2Th2:4 ;) ]"), as the one in Dan11:31 speaks of Antiochus Epiphanes' era instead (165BC or thereabouts).

Plus, the one in Dan12:11 (that Jesus is referencing) has a time-period attached (not only v.11 but also vv.6-7,1) and then v.13 informs that Daniel (after he will "rest" in death) will "STAND in thy lot [i.e. be bodily resurrected, to "stand again" on the earth] at the END OF THE DAYS [at the END of the DAYS referred to IN THAT CONTEXT]"--This did NOT happen in 70ad!

It's always a better bet to assume everything in the Old Testament has been fulfilled.
Well, "Covenant Theology" will tell you to do that.

But Peter in Acts 3:21 states otherwise:

"whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration OF ALL THINGS OF WHICH GOD SPOKE BY the mouth of His holy prophets from the age." [i.e. OT prophets and their OT prophecies--many of which have NOT YET been fulfilled]
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
#28
“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13, 16‬ ‭
If one examines the Greek grammar in this chapter 11 of Hebrews, one can see the distinct Greek words used (where the English consistently has it simply as "by faith" throughout)...

...I had made an old post on that, so will place it here (below) for the readers who are interested in examining the Greek in this passage.

[what v.13 is is pointing out, is that "these all" refers back ONLY to those named in verses 8-12 immediately preceding this v.13; not reaching back to speak of those in vv.4-7 earlier in the passage]




[quoting old post]

As for the Heb11:13 "these all died in faith"...

[quoting excerpt from Wm Kelly's Commentary on Hebrews 11
--I tried to place his first paragraph here in such a way as to draw attention to the various Greek words (etc) used for what is most often translated simply as "by faith" in our English, but which are actually distinct Greek words... (inserts in BLUE are mine--NOTE: the "BLUE" did not transfer here for this post)]


But "that day" is not yet come; and we return to their fathers. From the rising above difficulties insuperable save to God on whose word they relied (verses 11, 12), we have a summary in verses 13-16, which brings out the patriarchs refusing all temptation, and by faith holding on their pilgrim way to death consistently with the accomplishment of promise. This is the reason why the phraseology chances [changes] in the beginning of verse 13.

It is no longer "in" [en] faith, that is, in virtue (or the power) of faith as in verse 2, where such a force is requisite, [...].

Nor further is it the proximate cause, the dynamic or instrumental dative as in verses 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 11, and again in 17, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 27, 29, 30, and 31.

Still less does it distinguish faith as the means "through" [dia] which, as in 4, 7, 33.

Here (verse 13), if we say "in," we mean according to [kata] faith, contrasted with sight or possession of the things promised. What indeed would be the sense of saying that "by" or "through" faith all these died?

Nor is it "in" i.e. in virtue of faith, but according to [kata] faith as in verse 7 of our chapter, where the precisely same phrase occurs [that is, in v.7c]. [...] Conformity with faith is here predicated of Abraham and those patriarchs that followed, not for perseverance to the end though this was the fact, but in being content to wait for God's fulfilling the promises in due time.

"According to [kata] faith died these all, not having received promises, but from afar having seen and saluted [or, embraced] them, and confessed that they were ["are," historical] strangers and sojourners on the earth [or, land]. For they that say such things clearly show that they seek after a fatherland. And if indeed they were* calling to mind whence they went out, they would have had opportunity to return; but now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly. Wherefore God is not ashamed of them to be called their God; for he prepared for them a city" (verses 13-16).
[...]
The aim in these verses is to present vividly that common pilgrim path in which the patriarchs walked, even to their death, before the Spirit takes up characteristic workings of faith, even in Abraham as well as in each of those that followed, as far as it bore on the subject in hand and the special help of those virtually addressed. How timely and needful it must have been we may gather, because they expand the truth already set forth briefly in verses 9, 10.
Neither death, nor the unseen state that succeeds, was the accomplishment of the promises. On the contrary their death without receiving what was promised was in accordance [kata] with faith, and the witness of its single-eyed integrity. And the accomplishment of the promises supposed, what they could not as yet understand any more than anticipate, the second advent of the Lord even more than the first, although the first was the far more solemn in itself, and the righteous basis of the blessings and glories which await the second. Hence the force of our Lord's word in John 8:56, "Abraham rejoiced that he should see my day, and he saw and was glad." Neither technically nor substantially was the first [advent] mainly in view as has been thought, but that day when God's word and oath shall be vindicated before a wondering and rejoicing world. The patristic dream, which some dream over again, [i.e. the supposition] that it refers to what Abraham beheld after death when our Lord was here, is as unwarranted a perversion as the Socinian interpretation which Meyer justly stigmatises [...]. The design of our Lord and of that chapter is to prove Himself the Light and Word and Son and God Himself; and hence the contrast between Abraham who believed and his seed who did not. Whatever glimpse Abraham may have had of the truth to which the sacrifice on Moriah pointed, it was to the full accomplishment of the promise he looked, and saw by faith what still awaits fulfilment, the period of Christ's manifested glory, "My day." In this hope brightly breaking through the clouds Abraham exulted, and he saw, as faith ever sees, and rejoiced. He, like the rest, saw the promises in their accomplishment from afar off.
And so died these all in accordance with faith as they lived, looking forward to Messiah's day for making good the promises.

--William Kelly, Commentary on Hebrews 11 (From BibleHub) - https:/ /biblehub.com/commentaries/kelly/hebrews/11.htm


[end quoting; bold, underline, and some bracketed inserts mine (in BLUE--NOTE: "BLUE" did not transfer for this post)--including the particular Greek words he's referring to--; parentheses and some brackets original]

____________

bottom line: the phrase "these [G3778] all died according to faith" refers to those in vv.8-12 in particular.


[end quoting that post]








____________

"Christ's MANIFESTED glory" (as Kelly puts it) ^ corresponds with:


--2Th2:8b "the MANIFESTATION of the presence/parousia of Him" (when He will FUTURELY squash "the man of sin");


--1Tim6:15 "which IN HIS TIMES He SHALL SHEW [future-tense; OPENLY-MANIFEST], who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords;" (this underlined phrase used only ever in Rev19:16 / 17:14 [future to us]; See also Rev19:15b "and He SHALL [future tense, to that time-slot] SHEPHERD/RULE them [the nations] with a ROD/SCEPTRE of iron [/righteousness and strength; see Heb1:8 ('sceptre' and 'age')]".)
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,160
5,726
113
#29
If one examines the Greek grammar in this chapter 11 of Hebrews, one can see the distinct Greek words used (where the English consistently has it simply as "by faith" throughout)...

...I had made an old post on that, so will place it here (below) for the readers who are interested in examining the Greek in this passage.

[what v.13 is is pointing out, is that "these all" refers back ONLY to those named in verses 8-12 immediately preceding this v.13; not reaching back to speak of those in vv.4-7 earlier in the passage]




[quoting old post]

As for the Heb11:13 "these all died in faith"...

[quoting excerpt from Wm Kelly's Commentary on Hebrews 11
--I tried to place his first paragraph here in such a way as to draw attention to the various Greek words (etc) used for what is most often translated simply as "by faith" in our English, but which are actually distinct Greek words... (inserts in BLUE are mine--NOTE: the "BLUE" did not transfer here for this post)]


But "that day" is not yet come; and we return to their fathers. From the rising above difficulties insuperable save to God on whose word they relied (verses 11, 12), we have a summary in verses 13-16, which brings out the patriarchs refusing all temptation, and by faith holding on their pilgrim way to death consistently with the accomplishment of promise. This is the reason why the phraseology chances [changes] in the beginning of verse 13.

It is no longer "in" [en] faith, that is, in virtue (or the power) of faith as in verse 2, where such a force is requisite, [...].

Nor further is it the proximate cause, the dynamic or instrumental dative as in verses 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 11, and again in 17, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 27, 29, 30, and 31.

Still less does it distinguish faith as the means "through" [dia] which, as in 4, 7, 33.

Here (verse 13), if we say "in," we mean according to [kata] faith, contrasted with sight or possession of the things promised. What indeed would be the sense of saying that "by" or "through" faith all these died?

Nor is it "in" i.e. in virtue of faith, but according to [kata] faith as in verse 7 of our chapter, where the precisely same phrase occurs [that is, in v.7c]. [...] Conformity with faith is here predicated of Abraham and those patriarchs that followed, not for perseverance to the end though this was the fact, but in being content to wait for God's fulfilling the promises in due time.

"According to [kata] faith died these all, not having received promises, but from afar having seen and saluted [or, embraced] them, and confessed that they were ["are," historical] strangers and sojourners on the earth [or, land]. For they that say such things clearly show that they seek after a fatherland. And if indeed they were* calling to mind whence they went out, they would have had opportunity to return; but now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly. Wherefore God is not ashamed of them to be called their God; for he prepared for them a city" (verses 13-16).
[...]
The aim in these verses is to present vividly that common pilgrim path in which the patriarchs walked, even to their death, before the Spirit takes up characteristic workings of faith, even in Abraham as well as in each of those that followed, as far as it bore on the subject in hand and the special help of those virtually addressed. How timely and needful it must have been we may gather, because they expand the truth already set forth briefly in verses 9, 10.
Neither death, nor the unseen state that succeeds, was the accomplishment of the promises. On the contrary their death without receiving what was promised was in accordance [kata] with faith, and the witness of its single-eyed integrity. And the accomplishment of the promises supposed, what they could not as yet understand any more than anticipate, the second advent of the Lord even more than the first, although the first was the far more solemn in itself, and the righteous basis of the blessings and glories which await the second. Hence the force of our Lord's word in John 8:56, "Abraham rejoiced that he should see my day, and he saw and was glad." Neither technically nor substantially was the first [advent] mainly in view as has been thought, but that day when God's word and oath shall be vindicated before a wondering and rejoicing world. The patristic dream, which some dream over again, [i.e. the supposition] that it refers to what Abraham beheld after death when our Lord was here, is as unwarranted a perversion as the Socinian interpretation which Meyer justly stigmatises [...]. The design of our Lord and of that chapter is to prove Himself the Light and Word and Son and God Himself; and hence the contrast between Abraham who believed and his seed who did not. Whatever glimpse Abraham may have had of the truth to which the sacrifice on Moriah pointed, it was to the full accomplishment of the promise he looked, and saw by faith what still awaits fulfilment, the period of Christ's manifested glory, "My day." In this hope brightly breaking through the clouds Abraham exulted, and he saw, as faith ever sees, and rejoiced. He, like the rest, saw the promises in their accomplishment from afar off.
And so died these all in accordance with faith as they lived, looking forward to Messiah's day for making good the promises.

--William Kelly, Commentary on Hebrews 11 (From BibleHub) - https:/ /biblehub.com/commentaries/kelly/hebrews/11.htm


[end quoting; bold, underline, and some bracketed inserts mine (in BLUE--NOTE: "BLUE" did not transfer for this post)--including the particular Greek words he's referring to--; parentheses and some brackets original]

____________

bottom line: the phrase "these [G3778] all died according to faith" refers to those in vv.8-12 in particular.


[end quoting that post]








____________

"Christ's MANIFESTED glory" (as Kelly puts it) ^ corresponds with:


--2Th2:8b "the MANIFESTATION of the presence/parousia of Him" (when He will FUTURELY squash "the man of sin");


--1Tim6:15 "which IN HIS TIMES He SHALL SHEW [future-tense; OPENLY-MANIFEST], who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords;" (this underlined phrase used only ever in Rev19:16 / 17:14 [future to us]; See also Rev19:15b "and He SHALL [future tense, to that time-slot] SHEPHERD/RULE them [the nations] with a ROD/SCEPTRE of iron [/righteousness and strength; see Heb1:8 ('sceptre' and 'age')]".)
Instead of doing all that if a person just reads in the context , in any translation …..it teaches them about faith lol and how Abraham and all those mentioned never actually received the things he promised before they died

when abraham died he had two sons. One legitimate one illegitimate .

the promise was Abraham would be the father of many nations and would inherit the earth. And yet they all died without receiving the many things he promised David died before the promises he was given for an eternal kingdom is another example

all of the Israelite prophets died without thoer orophecies coming to pass ect ect

they went even to death believing the promises . This tells us they were looking past death to another kingdom of promise like we who walk by faith are
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,945
1,268
113
Australia
#30
There might be a fourth temple but it means nothing to God.

The people of God are no longer a nation of people but are based on faith.

Through Abraham the promise is to come to the world. JESUS is this promised blessing. When Jesus came the promise is to be given to all by faith.
The jews had the wrong concept of what the Messiah ment.

Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Rom 9:4-7
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. 6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

By faith we are children of God
Gal 3:7-9
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Gal 3:26-29
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

It is clear that through faith in Jesus we are children of God.

The promise is no longer just for Israel and Jerusalem.
A temple in Jerusalem is a human, man made quest that is useless in God's sight.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
2,271
1,050
113
#31
It's always a better bet to assume everything in the Old Testament has been fulfilled.
It's always better to pray; and not assume anything that isn't explicitly stated in the scriptures.

The Old Covenant- specifically, the Sinai Covenant; the "Law of Moses", is fulfilled. Prophecy is not attached to the law.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
2,271
1,050
113
#32
You know what boggles my mind? How so many believe and declare scripture is closed now, yet believe there's another physical temple coming. Scripture is closed, no more revelation to come, yet God's temple is going to be built without His order? How and when is He going to command His people to build it? Is revelation not over and finished yet? If this is the case then we're going to have to give a few other groups and religions a closer look to make sure that wasn't God starting them as well. Right?
N6 might be a cessationist; but even me, as a continuationist, recognizes that is does not take special revelation or a new command from God.

10As for you, son of man, describe the temple to the people of Israel, so that they may be ashamed of their iniquities. Let them measure the plan, 11and if they are ashamedd of all they have done, then make known to them the design of the temple—its arrangement and its exits and entrances—its whole design along with all its statutes, forms, and laws. Write it down in their sight, so that they may keep its complete design and all its statutes and may carry them out.

If the nation of Israel at large repents and believes they are already authorized to build this temple.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#33
You know what boggles my mind? How so many believe and declare scripture is closed now, yet believe there's another physical temple coming.
Do you believe that the Bible is the Word of God? Do you then believe that the book of Ezekiel is also the Word of God? So if God says there will be s future temple in Jerusalem, will you accept that from God, or scoff at it?
Scripture is closed, no more revelation to come, yet God's temple is going to be built without His order?
"Without His order"? Obviously you have never read this book, so speak out of sheer ignorance.
How and when is He going to command His people to build it?
Have you ever heard of the Millennial reign of Christ after His Second Coming?
Yet apparently believing that the Jews still receive direct revelation when scripture has been closed, and are called to build another temple
Who said anything about Jews still receiving direct revelations? It is you who received the written revelation in the OT, which you are now scoffing at.
You can't logically hold to Jesus work being finished, revelation being closed, and be waiting for a "3rd Gods temple" to be built. Men don't get to just decide to built a "Gods Temple". It would just be a manmade pile of bricks.
So you want God to accommodate your human logic? And it is not "a plie of bricks" either. More foolish remarks.
There is no "plan B" for the Jews that hate Jesus later. I believe this is a wicked lie that keeps Christians from reaching out to the Jewish community falsely thinking God has a backup plan for them. .
You are calling God's plan for REDEEMED AND RESTORED Israel "wicked".

This "no plan B" also reveals your ignorance of what Paul wrote in the New Testament, fully knowing that most of the Jews had rejected Christ in his time.

ROMANS 11:GOD'S "PLAN B" FOR ISRAEL
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion
[Jerusalem] the Deliverer [Christ], and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob [Israel]:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers'
[Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob] sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


Need I say any more to one who believes his logic is superior to God's?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#34
Let's face it. A lot of Christians have never read the prophecy of Ezekiel, which is one of the most important books in the OT.

Ezekiel wrote during the Babylonian captivity of Jerusalem and Judah and showed the people why they had been judged severely. But he also revealed the FUTURE restoration and redemption of Israel, Judah, Jerusalem, and the temple.

This is all about the grace of God in spite of all our sins. It is only in the 37th chapter (out of 48 chapters) that God promises to restore a sanctuary, or tabernacle, or temple to Israel: 26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. 27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

A lot of Christians will bristle at the passage because they believe that God is "finished" with the Jews and with Israel. We have scoffers mocking this prophecy. But any Christian who believes that the Holy Bible is the Word of God from Genesis to Revelation will have to accept this as true. Or else stop claiming to believe the Bible.

So what do we have here?

1. A covenant of peace with Israel -- God will not judge Israel again because all the Jews will be saved at that time and totally surrendered to God and Christ.

2. An everlasting covenant -- which is the same as an eternal covenant.

3. My sanctuary -- meaning God is personally in that sanctuary.

4. My tabernacle -- meaning God is personally in that tabernacle.

5. In the midst of them forever more -- all the saved of the 12 tribes of Israel will be living in their portions of land in greater Israel (see chapter 48), and the temple in Jerusalem will therefore be "in the midst of them".
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,945
1,268
113
Australia
#35
The temple is in Heaven

Focus on the Heavenly not the Earthly.

Heb 8:1-2
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Heb 10:6-9
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

By establishing the new, it is clear that the old is no longer valid.

The old includes the Earthly sanctuary. And Earthly sacrifices.
Not valid any more...
 
#36
For some strange reason, a lot of Christians cannot bring themselves to accept the biblical revelations that there will be a third as well as a fourth temple in Jerusalem. They have been so influenced by Replacement Theology that they cannot understand why God would have an eternal plan and purpose for the land of Israel, for the Jews, and for Jerusalem (as well as for the temple).

We can set aside the aspect of the third temple for now, and just focus on the fourth temple. While there are many allusions to this in the rest of the Old Testament (OT), particularly the Psalms, the prophecy of Ezekiel focuses on the fourth temple.

But first Ezekiel speaks about the gathering of the Jews to Israel, and the salvation of those Jews who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. They can only be redeemed by believing on the Redeemer and receiving Him as their true Messiah. Also when Scripture says that “all Israel shall be saved” that is more about Jews from all the twelve tribes being saved. So Ezekiel speaks about the redemption and restoration of the Jews (from around the world), as well as the redemption and restoration of the land of Israel (from the Nile to the Euphrates), the city of Jerusalem, and the temple itself. This is all related to the Second Coming of Christ and His millennial reign. And since there are no contradictions in Scripture, God will reveal the mystery of the fourth temple in the future, in spite of what is in the epistle to the Hebrews.

The description of the fourth temple begins in Ezekiel chapter 40 and ends in chapter 47. Everything is described in great detail. But most scholars admit that this is one of the most difficult sections of the Bible to be interpreted. Many Christian commentators (such as Matthew Henry) have either dismissed this vision, or failed to discuss this in its plain literal sense. Others have spiritualized it, such as the Christian Research Institute. But a few have seen that just like the rest of Scripture, everything must be taken in its plain literal sense. Here is one scholar who does exactly that, and refers to two others who have also done that:

Ezekiel’s Temple—A Literal Millennial Temple
There are solid biblical reasons to believe that Ezekiel’s temple vision foretells a literal temple that will be built in the future. In Messiah’s Coming Temple—Ezekiel’s Prophetic Vision of the Future Temple, by John W. Schmitt and J. Carl Laney, the authors make a compelling case for this being a description of a literal millennial temple. “Taken literally, Ezekiel 40–48 [should be 47] describes a temple that will exist during the kingdom (millennial age). Also Ezekiel is not alone in his prediction regarding a future temple; other prophets confirm the view that there will be a literal temple in the future kingdom (Isa 2:3; 60:13; Jer 33:18; Joel 3:18; Mic 4:2; Hag 2:7–9; Zech 6:12–15; 14:16, 20–21)” (ibid. p. 81). Moreover, if we are to believe John’s account of the New Jerusalem’s river of life lined with trees of life (Rev 22:1–2), then we must believe that Ezekiel’s similar account is literal as well (Ezek 47:1, 7, 12).
Understanding the Mystery of Ezekiel’s Temple | Hoshana Rabbah BlogHoshana Rabbah Blog


View attachment 266110

According to GotQuestions.org:
Most who expect a literal fulfillment of Ezekiel’s temple expect it to be erected in the millennial kingdom, a 1,000-year reign of Christ upon the earth. During the millennium, glorified saints from the present age will live in contact with natural human beings who will still need to make a decision for Christ in order to be saved—and many will choose not to trust Him. The sacrificial system described in Ezekiel cannot be for the forgiveness of sins, for Christ has accomplished that once and for all (Hebrews 10:1–4, 11–14). In this interpretive approach, the sacrifices are seen as memorials of Christ’s death or as rites for the ceremonial cleansing of the temple, but not as a means to forgive sins.


There are several videos of how this temple has been visualized in three dimensions. Ezekiel uses cubits as the measuring unit and one cubit is generally assumed to be 18 inches (or 1.5 feet). But an angel takes the measurements. Bible Hub sums up the description as follows, but it is not a “heavenly temple”:

Inside the Temple
Divine Blueprints: The Detailed Design of God's Sanctuary
Ezekiel 41 paints a picture of God's architectural precision and divine planning. It encourages us to perceive the significance of careful planning, holiness, and separation in our spiritual journey. As God is in the details of the heavenly temple, so He is in the details of our lives.
Verses 1-4: The Inner Sanctuary (Most Holy Place)
Ezekiel's guide leads him into the inner sanctuary or the Most Holy Place. The measurements of the walls, doorway, and the room itself are meticulously provided, signifying the meticulous nature of God's plans.
Verses 5-11: The Side Rooms
The guide then measures the temple's side rooms, each with precise dimensions and arranged on three levels. The construction details, including the supporting pillars, are detailed to illustrate the divine design.
Verses 12-14: The Building to the West
Next, the angel measures a building to the west of the main temple. The separation between this structure and the temple further illustrates the theme of holiness and separation.
Verses 15-26: The Outer Sanctuary and Entrance
The chapter concludes with measurements and descriptions of the outer sanctuary and entrance. The intricate carvings of cherubim and palm trees highlight the sanctity and beauty of God's dwelling place.
Ezekiel 41, part of a larger segment of prophetic visions, continues the tour of the divinely designed temple. Led by an angelic guide, the prophet Ezekiel records the specific dimensions and structures of the sacred edifice, underscoring God's desire for order, precision, and holiness.
Ezekiel 41 Chapter Summary (biblehub.com)
Complete nonsense.The NT.Church is the final temple.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,945
1,268
113
Australia
#37
they went even to death believing the promises . This tells us they were looking past death to another kingdom of promise like we who walk by faith are
Amen.
The promise is found in Jesus. Through Jesus all eternity and all riches are given.

Joh 14:2-3
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,945
1,268
113
Australia
#38
Complete nonsense.The NT.Church is the final temple.
Joh 2:19-21
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
1Co 6:19-20
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
 
#39
Joh 2:19-21
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
1Co 6:19-20
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Exactly....
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#40
Complete nonsense. The NT.Church is the final temple.
You are calling divine revelation "complete nonsense" so you can answer for that. Those who want the truth will seek the truth.