we speak English.
if we are going to use other translations then lets go back to Hebrew and Hieroglyphics,
WILL THERE BE A RAPTURE?
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we speak English.
if we are going to use other translations then lets go back to Hebrew and Hieroglyphics,
this one verse proves that there is not a rapture
Rev 20
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
how can we have a rapture before the first resurrection?
its is impossible to have a rapture.
the first means first.
Rev 20
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
how can we have a rapture before the first resurrection?
its is impossible to have a rapture.
the first means first.
is the rapture the last day?
Jesus said he will raised the dead on the last day(resurrection)
John 6:39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
the resurrection is when the dead shall be raised.
so when we read what Paul said in 1 Thessalonians
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(when will they rise? at the last day) the resurrection!
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Jesus said he will raised the dead on the last day(resurrection)
John 6:39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
the resurrection is when the dead shall be raised.
so when we read what Paul said in 1 Thessalonians
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(when will they rise? at the last day) the resurrection!
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
man don't go to heaven, in 1 Thessalonians the dead and alive people met Jesus in the clouds, he did not take them to heaven.
we have to ask ourselves, why is Jesus so determined to return to the earth?
(Psalm 132:13-18) "For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation. This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it. I will abundantly bless her provision: I will satisfy her poor with bread. I will also clothe her priests with salvation: and her saints shall shout aloud for joy. There will I make the horn of David to bud: I have ordained a lamp for mine anointed. His enemies’ will I clothe with shame: but upon himself shall his crown flourish."
Jesus desire is to reign on earth
we have to ask ourselves, why is Jesus so determined to return to the earth?
(Psalm 132:13-18) "For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation. This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it. I will abundantly bless her provision: I will satisfy her poor with bread. I will also clothe her priests with salvation: and her saints shall shout aloud for joy. There will I make the horn of David to bud: I have ordained a lamp for mine anointed. His enemies’ will I clothe with shame: but upon himself shall his crown flourish."
Jesus desire is to reign on earth
All over the Book, we see Jesus coming to the earth. Nowhere do we see where he's going to take man to heaven.
Acts 1:1-12 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: To whom also he showed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: And, being assembled together with [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]them[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT], commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]saith he[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT], ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, "It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put a Sabbath day's journey." in his own power." But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; which also said, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven?" this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem
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nathan3
Guest
I'm speechless. No wounder, Christ says, All, the world will be deceived. All. The result will be:
Revelation 6:
King James Version (KJV)
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
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Jesus is comind to the earth to rule for 1000 years at his 2nd coming. when he return it will be the 1st resurrection.
there is no room for a rapture! if we would even consider a rapture we are talking about a 3rd resurrection
the Lord said first resurrection meaning there is nothing before the first
the Lord said first resurrection meaning there is another after (Judgement day)
where is the room for a rapture?
lets read
Rev 20
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
we have two resurrection in this chapter, where is the rapture?
there is no room for a rapture! if we would even consider a rapture we are talking about a 3rd resurrection
the Lord said first resurrection meaning there is nothing before the first
the Lord said first resurrection meaning there is another after (Judgement day)
where is the room for a rapture?
lets read
Rev 20
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
we have two resurrection in this chapter, where is the rapture?
what heaven?
are you aware that there is 3 heavens?
2 Corinthians 12:2I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
such an one caught up to the third heaven.lets read 1 Thessalonians again
[h=3]1 Thessalonians 4:15-17[/h]King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
It says we meet the Lord in the clouds
i can go outside my house and see the clouds, the airplanes fly above the clouds
again it says we meet the Lord in the clouds
tell me which heaven is this?
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nathan3
Guest
what heaven?
are you aware that there is 3 heavens?
2 Corinthians 12:2I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
lets read 1 Thessalonians again
[h=3]1 Thessalonians 4:15-17[/h]King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
It says we meet the Lord in the clouds
i can go outside my house and see the clouds, the airplanes fly above the clouds
again it says we meet the Lord in the clouds
tell me which heaven is this?
Three heaven ages ' not a litteral 2nd or 3rd heaven, look up that word '''worlds'''' in the greek it was taken from. I will show you that it really means ages of time, and should not have translated worlds.
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John 3:13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
which heaven did the peopel in 1 thess 4 go to?
could not be the 3rd heaven the Lord resides.
The Lord said he will raise the dead at the last day, why are they not in heaven?
which heaven did the peopel in 1 thess 4 go to?
could not be the 3rd heaven the Lord resides.
The Lord said he will raise the dead at the last day, why are they not in heaven?
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nathan3
Guest
He's talking about Christ here in this verse, not other man. No man asended up to heaven like, in the manner Christ did. but they are there. because it is written that is what happens. Pauls own words. from Christ,
that to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord, look that up. its written. read 1 cor 15.... really, we should all get together in a room here and talk about it in detials.
that to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord, look that up. its written. read 1 cor 15.... really, we should all get together in a room here and talk about it in detials.
Nowhere in the Old Testament from Genesis to Malachi will you find reference to a Rapture
In fact all of the prophets spoke of the Kingdom and all things pertaining to the Kingdom being here on earth.
Now if God is going to take his faithful (church) to heaven before the Great Tribulation to protect them and keep them away from Armageddon, then surely the prophets would have told us of this event.
Instead the prophets tell us
(Isaiah 45:11-12 & 18) "Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens and all their host have I commanded. For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; "God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, and he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else."
God so much intended for man to inhabit the earth that he made man of the earth!
In fact all of the prophets spoke of the Kingdom and all things pertaining to the Kingdom being here on earth.
Now if God is going to take his faithful (church) to heaven before the Great Tribulation to protect them and keep them away from Armageddon, then surely the prophets would have told us of this event.
Instead the prophets tell us
(Isaiah 45:11-12 & 18) "Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens and all their host have I commanded. For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; "God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, and he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else."
God so much intended for man to inhabit the earth that he made man of the earth!
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nathan3
Guest
lets look at man
NO man is absolute
Genesis 2:7And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The Lord said NO MAN, he did not say the man Jesus, it reads NO MAN
John 3:13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
lets read what you quoted
[SUP]8 [/SUP]We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
Lets read the next verse to see when we are present with the Lord
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
on judgement day is when we are present with the Lord.
the 1st resurrection or the 2nd resurrection which is called judgement day
whats the sports room?
thanks
I'm at work so i have to be mindful of the bosses floating around
You are correct that the word 'trinity' does not appear anywhere in the Scriptures...
Tertullian was the first church father in the West to use the word “Trinity” (Lat. 'trinitas') in reference to the three Persons of the Godhead against the Modalism of Praxeas: “Unity into a Trinity, placing in their order the three Persons—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit three …” (Against Praxeas 2)
However, although the word 'Trinity' does not appear in the Scriptures, the truth of it is EVERYWHERE from Genesis to Revelation!
Yahweh Shalom...