Works and Salvation

[eternally-gratefull]

Since when can't the Holy Spirit work THROUGH acts of obedience? Was it the snake that healed them or was it the fact they BELIEVED GOD and were healed when they obeyed? Was Israel's sins covered BEFORE or AFTER the blood was sprinkled on the mercy seat?

so your saying God needs to wait until we do a work, and can not save us the moment we placed our faith in him? like he does not know we would do it? it is not like we can just drop everything and be baptized today. so god will hold off baptizing with the Holy Spirit until we do the act of water baptism? why?

 

[Radius]

EG just makes so much sense when he talks. Thank you for all of your contributions here brother and for spreading the truth.

 

[newbirth]

so your saying God needs to wait until we do a work, and can not save us the moment we placed our faith in him? like he does not know we would do it? it is not like we can just drop everything and be baptized today. so god will hold off baptizing with the Holy Spirit until we do the act of water baptism? why?

you don't even have a clue of what you are speaking....baptism of the HS has nothing to do with water baptism...all the prophets in the OT were blessed with the HS...without water baptism...Cornelius received baptism of the HS before water baptism.... repentance and baptism (in water) for the remission of sins is the way God ordained for us to enter into the kingdom....you want to enter into God's kingdom by your own standards.....and the promise is for the gift of the HS....I have no evidence of God baptising with the HS as he did in Acts ,today...Do you......?????

 

[newbirth]

EG just makes so much sense when he talks. Thank you for all of your contributions here brother and for spreading the truth.

that means it is time for you to start reading the bible bro....

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Jesus said "Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you:...."

Just curious
Did you think JESUS was talking about physical meat?Why would GOD need to see physical works?James was telling men that if their faith was true that it would produce works seen by men,but salvation is given by GOD not men.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

What if one has faith but no works that follow that faith. Can that faith only save him?

yes.
John 3:16
king james version(kjv)

16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Remember that scripture doesn't contradict scripture so you will have to harmonize this scripture with the one in james so they harmonize or you are in error.

 

[newbirth]

so your saying God needs to wait until we do a work, and can not save us the moment we placed our faith in him? like he does not know we would do it? it is not like we can just drop everything and be baptized today. so god will hold off baptizing with the Holy Spirit until we do the act of water baptism? why?

it is not that God has to wait...it is you have to follow instructions you want to do things your own way...what you have is not faith it is rebellion...
what is place faith....????? this is place faith...They then that received his word were baptized: and there were added unto them in that day about three thousand souls.
Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching good tidings concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Acts 8:13
And Simon also himself believed: and being baptized, he continued with Philip; and beholding signs and great miracles wrought, he was amazed.

Acts 8:36
And as they went on the way, they came unto a certain water; and the eunuch saith, Behold, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Acts 16:32-34American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And they spake the word of the Lord unto him, with all that were in his house.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, immediately.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And he brought them up into his house, and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, with all his house, having believed in God.

 

[newbirth]

yes.
John 3:16
king james version(kjv)

16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Remember that scripture doesn't contradict scripture so you will have to harmonize this scripture with the one in james so they harmonize or you are in error.

simple those who believe in him does whatever he says....
Matthew 17:5
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Acts 7:37
This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

 

[SarahM777]

so your saying God needs to wait until we do a work, and can not save us the moment we placed our faith in him? like he does not know we would do it? it is not like we can just drop everything and be baptized today. so god will hold off baptizing with the Holy Spirit until we do the act of water baptism? why?

Numbers 21

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Wherefore the Lord sent [SUP][e][/SUP]fiery serpents among the people, which stung the people: so that many of the people of Israel died.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned: for we have spoken against the Lord, and against thee: pray to the Lord, that he take away the serpents from us: and Moses prayed for the people.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it up for a [SUP][f][/SUP]sign, that as many as are bitten, may look upon it, and live.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]So Moses made a serpent of brass, and set it up for a sign: and when a serpent had bitten a man, then he looked to the serpent of brass, and [SUP][g][/SUP]lived.

Did they live by saying I believe,I believe,I believe,or did they ACTUALLY have to look at the bronze serpent? Did God require them to ACT on what God told them BEFORE they lived?

 

[Jackson123]

it is not that God has to wait...it is you have to follow instructions you want to do things your own way...what you have is not faith it is rebellion...
what is place faith....????? this is place faith...They then that received his word were baptized: and there were added unto them in that day about three thousand souls.
Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching good tidings concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Acts 8:13
And Simon also himself believed: and being baptized, he continued with Philip; and beholding signs and great miracles wrought, he was amazed.

Acts 8:36
And as they went on the way, they came unto a certain water; and the eunuch saith, Behold, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Acts 16:32-34American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And they spake the word of the Lord unto him, with all that were in his house.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, immediately.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And he brought them up into his house, and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, with all his house, having believed in God.

let me repeat my question brother, If one have a faith in Jesus and die 10 second after, before water baptism, is he save?

 

[ChristIsGod]

simple those who believe in him does whatever he says....

Matthew 17:5
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Acts 7:37
This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Seems simple enough to understand.

Another good verse was posted on pg 1 as well -- the last verse of a heavy hitting chpt ...

1Cor 6:20 For ye are bought with a Price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

 

[newbirth]

Just curious
Did you think JESUS was talking about physical meat?Why would GOD need to see physical works?James was telling men that if their faith was true that it would produce works seen by men,but salvation is given by GOD not men.

nowhere does the scripture teach that faith produce works...it teaches if you have faith and no works your faith is dead...which means you have to do the work...look at the example again....
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

[SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

he does not say faith give them those things...or faith produce those things...the same way you have to do the works

 

[newbirth]

let me repeat my question brother, If one have a faith in Jesus and die 10 second after, before water baptism, is he save?

how do you know he has faith in Jesus?

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

faith without works is dead...where is the diligence of seeking God?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Just curious
Did you think JESUS was talking about physical meat?Why would GOD need to see physical works?James was telling men that if their faith was true that it would produce works seen by men,but salvation is given by GOD not men.

the words eternal and forever evidently means nothing to them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Numbers 21

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Wherefore the Lord sent [SUP][e][/SUP]fiery serpents among the people, which stung the people: so that many of the people of Israel died.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned: for we have spoken against the Lord, and against thee: pray to the Lord, that he take away the serpents from us: and Moses prayed for the people.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it up for a [SUP][f][/SUP]sign, that as many as are bitten, may look upon it, and live.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]So Moses made a serpent of brass, and set it up for a sign: and when a serpent had bitten a man, then he looked to the serpent of brass, and [SUP][g][/SUP]lived.

Did they live by saying I believe,I believe,I believe,or did they ACTUALLY have to look at the bronze serpent? Did God require them to ACT on what God told them BEFORE they lived?

thanks,

you just proved my point. Who were saved? the ones who did work and tried to save themselves? because they did nto trust the word of moses (their faith was dead) or the ones who actually had faith in what moses said? proven by the fact their faith was alive not dead, which CAUSED them to ACT on that faith?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Seems simple enough to understand.

Another good verse was posted on pg 1 as well -- the last verse of a heavy hitting chpt ...

1Cor 6:20 For ye are bought with a Price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Interesting

1. Bought with a price (we know to be the death of Christ
2. We belong to God.

No legalism here, Oir salvation was paid in full, we were purchased by God. And belong to him. So where is legalism? where does it showed WE PAID for our salvation. WE PAID to become Gods child (by our works)?

you can;t have it both ways. Yes we should act to glorify God. yet we who have faith WILL ACT on that faith. not as yuo all are saying to get saved, but BECAUSE we were purchased at such great cost of someone who loved us.

 

[Jackson123]

how do you know he has faith in Jesus?

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

faith without works is dead...where is the diligence of seeking God?

You question is invalid brother, I ask if He have a faith in Jesus and die in ten second after, before water baptism.

Then you quote without faith impossible to please God.

let me repeat, If he have faith?

the verse you quote ask diligent, how about diligent in 10 second.?

So your answered is He is not save. Am I correct?

[TABLE="class: passage-cols, width: 950"]
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[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last"]Matthew 20:1-16King James Version (KJV)

20 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.
5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

King James Version (KJV)by Public Domain



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[SarahM777]

thanks,

you just proved my point. Who were saved? the ones who did work and tried to save themselves? because they did nto trust the word of moses (their faith was dead) or the ones who actually had faith in what moses said? proven by the fact their faith was alive not dead, which CAUSED them to ACT on that faith?

You're missing the point,the point again is DID they live BEFORE or AFTER they ACTED on their faith? If they did NOT do the ACT of looking at the bronze serpent did they LIVE or did they DIE?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You're missing the point,the point again is DID they live BEFORE or AFTER they ACTED on their faith? If they did NOT do the ACT of looking at the bronze serpent did they LIVE or did they DIE?

No, Your missing the point.

Their lives were saved the MOMENT they chose to trust moses. Proven by the fact they did not die before they looked at the serpent. They were saved the moment they trusted God, And when they entered the area, they proved their faith was real by doing what God commanded them.

Proving faith is active, where as a dead faith will never save you.

The people who died died the moment they lacked faith. They may have had to wait to die, but their fate was sealed.

 

[newbirth]

You question is invalid brother, I ask if He have a faith in Jesus and die in ten second after, before water baptism.

Then you quote without faith impossible to please God.

let me repeat, If he have faith?

the verse you quote ask diligent, how about diligent in 10 second.?

So your answered is He is not save. Am I correct?

then you did not read the whole answer... especially the red print...you have to come to God in faith ...believe that he is and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him... the scripture teaches ...faith without works is dead...so you are asking answers...devils believe and tremble....what makes him different from the devils? a seeker of God does what God says to do...you have not shown this person to obey God

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.