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God's word says only God is immortal but you like to pretend we all are, even aside form the life found by faith in Christ. Why don't you take God's Word at face value? There is no reason to change what is explicitly said, but you do it whenever it suits your purposes. The wages of sin is death, stated over and over and over again!
Unlike you I accept God's word for what it says. The wages of sin is death. I gave the Scriptures but you offhandedly dismiss them all and give a parable to stand against the many that refute the parable meaning to be literal. The dead know nothing. That is explicitly stated in Scripture also. Oh, right you dismiss that also. For whatever reason you have adopted the false teaching that many cling to, while ignoring what is explicitly stated in a multiplicity of ways, while also ignoring the whole of Scripture that demonstrate that life ever after is found ONLY in Jesus, those who die in their sins DIE, they pass into the second death and know nothing. Your pretenses amount to perverting a whole slew of Scriptures. It never entered God's mind to burn people. You promote an abomination that God finds detestable and EVIL.
Hello Magenta,
I agree that the wages of sin is death, but it is the definition of "death" and "destruction" that you are not understanding. You think of death as nonexistence, but the word of God describes it as a state of being separated from God and a complete loss of well being. You continue to state that scripture supports annihilation, but it doesn't. I listed the definition of the Greek words for you and they state that they do not imply annihilation or extinction. Do you understand that you are teaching the same doctrine that the Jehovah's witness teach? They also believe that hell is only the grave. Not very good company.
People continue to use the scripture above from Ecclesiastes and it doesn't mean what you think it means. Not only that, but you ignore all the other scriptures that demonstrate conscious awareness of the spirit/soul after death. You have still to explain the meaning of how a person who is nonexistent can have no rest day or night or how the smoke of their torment can rise up forever and ever if they don't exist.
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; (their bodies which are sleeping) they have no further reward, and even their name is
forgotten."
For the believer, at the time of death, scripture states that the spirit departs from body and goes immediately to be in the presence of the Lord. While the body sleeps in the dust of the ground.
I have presented the 5th seal to you, which shows the spirits/souls of those saints under the altar who are having a conversation with the Lord and are given white robes and told to wait a little longer. That alone should be a proof to you that the spirit/soul is conscious and aware after death.
I presented the event of the rich man and Lazarus which says that they both died, but their spirits went somewhere else; but you ignore that as well opting for a parable. And indeed you would have to interpret it as a parable because completely destroys the concept of conscious awareness of the spirit after death and supports torment in flame for the wicked.
Neither conscious existence after death nor on-going punishment for sin, is a false teaching, as scripture supports them, but you ignore the context of scripture and the definition of the words.
Really?! Let's see if scripture supports your claim above:
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
According to the scripture above, apparently it did enter God's mind to burn people in everlasting fire. So, who is the one ignoring scripture now? I do not promote an abomination, but I am zealous for the truth and accuracy of God's word. And the truth of the matter is that, those who die without Christ, will be thrown into the lake of fire, where the beast, the false prophet, Satan and his angels will all be, experiencing on-going punishment/torment. This is just what scripture says.
I agree that the wages of sin is death, but it is the definition of "death" and "destruction" that you are not understanding. You think of death as nonexistence, but the word of God describes it as a state of being separated from God and a complete loss of well being. You continue to state that scripture supports annihilation, but it doesn't. I listed the definition of the Greek words for you and they state that they do not imply annihilation or extinction. Do you understand that you are teaching the same doctrine that the Jehovah's witness teach? They also believe that hell is only the grave. Not very good company.
People continue to use the scripture above from Ecclesiastes and it doesn't mean what you think it means. Not only that, but you ignore all the other scriptures that demonstrate conscious awareness of the spirit/soul after death. You have still to explain the meaning of how a person who is nonexistent can have no rest day or night or how the smoke of their torment can rise up forever and ever if they don't exist.
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; (their bodies which are sleeping) they have no further reward, and even their name is
forgotten."
For the believer, at the time of death, scripture states that the spirit departs from body and goes immediately to be in the presence of the Lord. While the body sleeps in the dust of the ground.
I have presented the 5th seal to you, which shows the spirits/souls of those saints under the altar who are having a conversation with the Lord and are given white robes and told to wait a little longer. That alone should be a proof to you that the spirit/soul is conscious and aware after death.
I presented the event of the rich man and Lazarus which says that they both died, but their spirits went somewhere else; but you ignore that as well opting for a parable. And indeed you would have to interpret it as a parable because completely destroys the concept of conscious awareness of the spirit after death and supports torment in flame for the wicked.
Neither conscious existence after death nor on-going punishment for sin, is a false teaching, as scripture supports them, but you ignore the context of scripture and the definition of the words.
Really?! Let's see if scripture supports your claim above:
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
According to the scripture above, apparently it did enter God's mind to burn people in everlasting fire. So, who is the one ignoring scripture now? I do not promote an abomination, but I am zealous for the truth and accuracy of God's word. And the truth of the matter is that, those who die without Christ, will be thrown into the lake of fire, where the beast, the false prophet, Satan and his angels will all be, experiencing on-going punishment/torment. This is just what scripture says.
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Hell is a man made construct designed to keep people in line. Yes...I know...I'm a heretic. I look at it like this. There is nothing my son could do to cause me to torture him for eternity. And last time I checked I'm not better than God. Or am I and I underestimate myself? Lol
Sirk,
Just in the gospels alone, Christ himself uses the world Hell 15 times.
So... what are we to make of that?
its my understanding that the word he was using is the word for the grave. Btw my friend...you are seriously one of my favorite people on here.
The people thrown into the fire are already dead. They have received their punishment and pass into the second death just as Scripture states. Then death and hell are thrown into the lake of fire, and are no more. Look at Jeremiah where God plainly says that the thought of burning people never even entered His mind. And look at you! You have studied Scripture for over forty years and NEVER changed what you believe but you want me to? What kind of hypocrisy is that? Annihilationism is a valid, solidly Scriptural position and you cannot pretend it is not. At least my position does not have God torturing and tormenting people for an eternity for a decision made in finite space. You ignore MANY Scriptures that say death is the wages of sin. The dead know nothing. God alone possesses immortality. You make up stuff to fit your preconceived ideas.
The rich man and Lazarus is a parable, but you are free to take it literally
while you ignore all the Scriptures that ought to be taken literally. You are
so funny going around telling people what not to do when you do it all the time.
Yes, but whatever your son does against you, is not same as committing sin against an infinite and holy God. Since all sin is against God, there will be punishment just as scripture teaches. You people just continue to ignore scripture regarding this issues. And as I told Magenta, your belief is exactly what Jehovah's witnesses teach. Not very good company to be in.
The word of God is the source of all truth and that is where we need to go for our understanding of all Biblical subjects, not by our our own personal feelings.
Regarding the teaching of hell as a way of keeping people in line, Jesus spoke about everlasting fire more than anyone.
How loving. I'm gonna create something so I can torture it. Nice. Me thinks you have a skewed understanding of the character of God.
Jehovah's Witness do not accept the Deity of Christ. I do. Therefore Ahwatuckie,
you continue to shamelessly bear false witness about me. Christadelphians and
Seventh Day Adventists are also annihilationists, but I am not among their ranks
either. Many respectable theologians accept annihilationism as a viable, reliable,
and completely theologically sound interpretation of Scripture. It is certainly more
in keeping with the loving, just, and merciful nature of God, Who alone is good.
you continue to shamelessly bear false witness about me. Christadelphians and
Seventh Day Adventists are also annihilationists, but I am not among their ranks
either. Many respectable theologians accept annihilationism as a viable, reliable,
and completely theologically sound interpretation of Scripture. It is certainly more
in keeping with the loving, just, and merciful nature of God, Who alone is good.
However there is no such thing as annihilation or ceasing to exist, The scriptures say even the devil will be tormented day & night forever. I understand it's hard for some people to accept that kind of punishment.
Only God possesses immortality. I wonder why they say God is powerless to remove from HIS creation an unwanted element. It is the saved who put on the incorruptible and immortality, not of ourselves, but through our faith in Jesus Christ Who holds the keys to life and death, and has overcome death.
People erroneously assume the soul to be immortal. Life is found only in Jesus Christ.
The unsaved pass into the second death. That is explicitly stated in Scripture.
There is no reason why not to accept the Scriptures at their Word on this.
The soul that remains in a state of unbelief at the end of the age perishes.
PERISH is word #622 is Strong's Concordance
apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly
Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Short Definition: I destroy, lose, am perishing
Definition: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed as certain).
HELPS Word-studies
622 apóllymi (from 575 /apó, "away from," which intensifies
ollymi, "to destroy") – properly, fully destroy, cutting off entirely
(note the force of the prefix, 575 /apó).
622 /apóllymi ("violently/completely perish") implies permanent (absolute) destruction, i.e. to cancel out (remove); "to die, with the implication of ruin and destruction" (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost (utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end.
[This is also the meaning of 622 /apóllymi dating back to Homer (900 bc.]
You are correct in that, their bodies are dead, but their spirits are in Sheol/Hades in torment. At the end of the thousand year reign of Christ, the unrighteous dead will be resurrected, which means that a body will be prepared for them and their spirits/souls will be reunited with that body. They will be alive in that body and will be thrown into the lake of fire. Their resurrected bodies will be made to exist in the lake of fire, but not annihilated. This is how they will be able to experience the punishment that God has set for them.
That is because the Spirit taught it to me right the first time through that forty years of study. Regarding this, should you continue believing in something that is not true?
Magenta! I am only trying to show you the truth regarding this issue. Regarding the above, as long as you continue to believe that death equals nonexistence instead of understanding that death is defined being separated from God and therefore a complete loss of well being while existing, then you will never understand the meaning of that verse.
Parables always have the same construct, symbolism representing the literal. A good example is the parable of the weeds and the wheat:
The sower = the Son of man
Field = the world
Good seed = the son's of the kingdom
Weeds = Son's of the devil
The enemy = the devil
The Harvesters = the angels
The harvest = the end of the age
That is the theme of a parable. The event of the rich man and Lazarus does not read anything like a parable, for the names of real people are used, as well as the literal place of Hades. I take it literally, because that is the way that it should be interpreted. To do otherwise is to force a parabolic meaning to it where none is required. As I said, I don't ignore any scripture, but cling to them.
I will continue to pray that God will reveal these truths to you.