Would Christ Vote?

[SaysWhat]

Is not Christ our example?
Should we not follow that example?
Christ was unconcerned with the political system He lived under.
He had bigger fish to multiply.
Shouldn't we?

Jesus was concerned with political systems. Reason for the coins in the fish's mouth.

Just being able to vote for a leader can definitely be a plus, in God we trust.

Romans 13
1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which is from God. The authorities that exist have been appointed by God. 2 Consequently, whoever resists authority is opposing what God has set in place, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the one in authority? Then do what is right, and you will have his approval.
4 For he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not carry the sword in vain. He is God’s servant, an agent of retribution to the wrongdoer.

5 Therefore it is necessary to submit to authority, not only to avoid punishment, but also as a matter of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes. For the authorities are God’s servants, who devote themselves to their work.

7 Pay everyone what you owe him: taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

there is an ancient saying regarding democracy, "vox populi, vox dei"

it is not true.

"The voice of the people, the voice of God."

You are correct.

It is not true.

Jhn 19:14
And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!

Jhn 19:15
But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

 

[SaysWhat]

In fact?

Show me in scripture where God willed for people to vote.

People casting lots is like voting.

Proverbs 18:18
The lot puts an end to quarrels and decides between powerful contenders

 

[sawdust]

just like the republicans said about Obama lol - and Harris, too, except the Hitler bit was missing. instead she was compared to Karl Marx.

it's meaningless, just a sales pitch.
sex sells better than anything, but after that, hatred, and third best, fear.

these things are hollow tactics to gain the trust of idiots, and they work tremendously well, because guess what we humans are?

Except the Democrats message lost so it looks like you Americans aren't as big as idiots as the Dems thought.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

People casting lots is like voting.

Proverbs 18:18
The lot puts an end to quarrels and decides between powerful contenders

Casting lots in the Bible had nothing to do with electing people into political office.

https://www.gotquestions.org/casting-lots.html

Why are you determined to find something in the Bible that does not truly exist?

 

[posthuman]

People casting lots is like voting.

Proverbs 18:18
The lot puts an end to quarrels and decides between powerful contenders

no, it's like flipping a coin or rolling dice.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Casting lots in the Bible had nothing to do with electing people into political office.

https://www.gotquestions.org/casting-lots.html

Why are you determined to find something in the Bible that does not truly exist?

They cast lots to determine who would take Judas' place among the disciples. Only difference is they let God decide instead of themselves.

 

[posthuman]

They cast lots to determine who would take Judas' place among the disciples. Only difference is they let God decide instead of themselves.

good example, they did first choose a few candidates, probably by something like a vote.

but then instead God called Paul, whom they definitely never would have voted for, at all.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

They cast lots to determine who would take Judas' place among the disciples. Only difference is they let God decide instead of themselves.

The disciples were not politicians.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The disciples were not politicians.

Those 12 constitute one of the most important and powerful government offices in the history of mankind.

Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Luke 22:28-30​

 

[posthuman]

Those 12 constitute one of the most important and powerful government offices in the history of mankind.

Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Luke 22:28-30​

John 18:36​

Jesus answered, ​

My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight​

 

[Magenta]

good example, they did first choose a few candidates, probably by something like a vote.

but then instead God called Paul, whom they definitely never would have voted for, at all.

Jesus had instructed them to wait, but they did not wait, did they?

 

[SaysWhat]

no, it's like flipping a coin or rolling dice.

Not at all, that is chance, a lot is like a vote decides between two powerful contenders.

 

[SaysWhat]

Casting lots in the Bible had nothing to do with electing people into political office.

https://www.gotquestions.org/casting-lots.html

Why are you determined to find something in the Bible that does not truly exist?

O yes it does, a vote or a lot decides between two contenders. On that principle, yes they are similar.

 

[Magenta]

The disciples were not politicians.

There are people here who claim DT is not a politician.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

There are people here who claim DT is not a politician.

I hope that I do not regret asking, but what do they claim him to be?

 

[Magenta]

I hope that I do not regret asking, but what do they claim him to be?

Gosh. A businessman? Which he is, too, and does not in any way negate him being a politician as well.

They will swear up and down that Donald Trump is not a politician. Quite strange, if you ask me. Total denial.

 

[posthuman]

Not at all, that is chance, a lot is like a vote decides between two powerful contenders.

no, that's not what casting lots is.
the situation described in Proverbs 18:18 is that there are equal votes on both sides of some topic, so that discussion among humans cannot decide or determine the right course. if casting lots was equivalent to humans voting then this proverb would make nonsense whatsoever - more votes can't break a deadlocked vote.

Proverbs 16:33​

The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof [is] of the LORD.​

​

the Biblical practice of casting lots is like the urim and thummin. it is essentially pure physical chance, like rolling dice or flipping a coin - the idea behind it being that God alone can control the flip of a coin. it is absolutely not 'voting' - everywhere it is mentioned in scripture it is decidedly allowing God to give direction and absolutely excluding any input from human opinion or will.

nevertheless the example in the Bible is 100% opposed to making such decisions by humans voting.

this is exactly why in Acts they arrived at a conclusion about a handful of qualified people, then cast lots. they were explicitly not making the decision by voting among themselves, but allowing God to give them direction. that was their intent - but as @Magenta points out, open question as to whether God blessed or approved what they were trying to do.

this makes Proverbs 16:33 an incredibly powerful statement given the things revealed by quantum mechanics in the early 1900's regarding the nature of the physical universe: it is probabilistic, not deterministic. the cosmos is much more like the casting of lots than it is like voting: indicating that only God controls things, never man.

@cv5 probably has some good input on this point

 

[posthuman]

Gosh. A businessman? Which he is, too, and does not in any way negate him being a politician as well.

They will swear up and down that Donald Trump is not a politician. Quite strange, if you ask me. Total denial.

a businessman is just a politician in the realm of commerce instead of government.

all the deceptive tactics of schmoozing and doublespeak etc are directly transferable - and very similar to what it takes to be a successful actor, which is essentially professional lying. this is a big part of why he has been successful at gaining worldly power through manipulation of public opinion. he is very shrewd and well practiced at deceiving people into thinking he is something desirable - those are exactly the same skillsets as CEOs and Hollywood stars.


all of which gives even more weight and importance to the fact that the kingdom of God does not operate by any kind of democracy, but by the incorruptible authoritarian power of Christ the King of Kings, Who alone is worthy.

 

[Cameron143]

The children of this world are often wiser in their generation than the children of light. Luke 16:...Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness...

Republican administrations are far friendlier to religious accommodation than their opponents. This in and of itself is reason for any Christian to vote for Trump.