Young Earth vs. Old Earth, Does it matter?

[Bowman]

this is just sloppy exegesis...

hebrews 4 is talking about resting in christ...and actually the author of hebrews bases his argument on the fact that the seventh day -ended-...that is why it says God 'again fixes a certain day' to enter into God's rest...

There is no mention of the seventh day ending in the Greek...only the cessation of work.

and in genesis 2:4 'in the day' is an idiomatic saying...it is a -completely- different usage from when days are assigned numbers as in 'first day' and 'second day' and so on... you don't number days if they are figurative constructs...

Gen 2.4 shows the flexibility of the term yaum, as it now is used to represent all the previous days as one day.

Assigning an ordinal to the term yaum does not change its meaning according to Hebrew grammar.

 

[danschance]

Old earth doesn't align with scripture. The more beliefs you carry that don't align with scripture, then the more you reinforcing that scripture has less validity. -Simply a different way of wording JimmyDiggs's post.

Of course, since i'm not christian, feel free to question my motives.

I can tell you have never heard of the "pre-adamic earth" theory. It is called by several names and some well known christians teach it. It's the one which makes the most sense to me.

 

[Bowman]

this is also sloppy exegesis...the statement you cite -does- refers to a twenty-four hour period...

the first day began with the creation of light...a light period or 'day' ensued that ended with an evening...when the dark period or 'night' began...and that dark period ended with a morning...

so in this saying we have both the light period or day and the dark period or night...an entire twenty-four hour day...

You already posited that the Hebrew day is marked from evening to evening.

Thus, you have no choice but to admit that each day in Genesis is now 12hrs tops.

Jesus even said that a day is 12 hrs long.

You are scripturally stuck in your YEC worldview...

 

[Tethered]

I can tell you have never heard of the "pre-adamic earth" theory. It is called by several names and some well known christians teach it. It's the one which makes the most sense to me.

I haven't. I admit some prejudice against it but will take a look.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

There is no mention of the seventh day ending in the Greek...only the cessation of work.





Gen 2.4 shows the flexibility of the term yaum, as it now is used to represent all the previous days as one day.

Assigning an ordinal to the term yaum does not change its meaning according to Hebrew grammar.

in hebrews 4 the author's logic depends on the fact that the seventh day of creation week ended...otherwise there would be no need for God to 'again fix a certain day' to enter into his rest...the current 'ongoing seventh day' would have been sufficient...

genesis 2:4 shows the term 'yom' being used in an idiomatic phrase...idiomatic usage has no real relevance to the question of the term's flexibility in definition... your argument is like someone taking the phrase 'back seat driver' and using it to argue that you don't have to be in the driver's seat to drive a car...

 

[RickyZ]

the bible says adam had lived 130 years when his son seth was born...

so we -can- limit how long adam and eve were in the garden...less than 130 years...and probably no more than 100 years considering the time it took for cain and abel to grow up and become established farmers and shepherds before seth was born...

in any case the theory that adam and eve lived for billions of years in the garden of eden contradicts the same 'science' that it is trying to reconcile with the bible...no paleontologist is going to tell you that humans and birds and fruit trees go back 4.6 billion years...

all you get when you try to cram the billions of years required by secular 'science' into the bible is a third mythology that contradicts both...

Sp I looked it up and while I didn't find the reference you mentioned I did find this - Genesis 5:5- "So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died." So no the eons theory doesn't hold up, does it?

 

[Shiloah]

What this topic does is make people 'moderate' christians without realizing it. Accept enough explanations that don't align with scripture on the premis it doesn't directly affect salvation, makes it that much easier to accept such an explanation when it does.

I think the question isn't whether we agree with what scriptures say or not: it's whether we actually understand scriptures correctly or not.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

You already posited that the Hebrew day is marked from evening to evening.

Thus, you have no choice but to admit that each day in Genesis is now 12hrs tops.

Jesus even said that a day is 12 hrs long.

You are scripturally stuck in your YEC worldview...

each day in genesis 1 included a light period...ending with an evening...and a dark period...ending with a morning...which adds up to a normal twenty-four hour day...

but even if i were to accept your argument that the days in genesis 1 were twelve hour days...you still cannot cram the billions of years required by old earth scenarios into that...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Sp I looked it up and while I didn't find the reference you mentioned I did find this - Genesis 5:5- "So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died." So no the eons theory doesn't hold up, does it?

genesis 5:3..."When Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years, he became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth."

but yes the verse you quoted also disproves the 'eons in eden' theory...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

I think the question isn't whether we agree with what scriptures say or not: it's whether we actually understand scriptures correctly or not.

well the question is whether we take the plain meaning of clear scripture passages...or let secular 'science' tell us how we are supposed to understand scripture...

 

[superdave5221]

I feel closest to secular humanism; and given somewhat greater significance in this thread than intended

I was wondering if you have ever had the gospel presented to you, and if so, why you rejected it?

You seem like a reasonable person. What reasons would compel you to accept a secular humanist worldview over a Christian one?

 

[Bowman]

in hebrews 4 the author's logic depends on the fact that the seventh day of creation week ended...otherwise there would be no need for God to 'again fix a certain day' to enter into his rest...the current 'ongoing seventh day' would have been sufficient...

No.

There is no mention of the seventh day ending.

The Hebrew examples contained in Hebrews do not show that the seventh day has ended....only a cessation of God's work.

genesis 2:4 shows the term 'yom' being used in an idiomatic phrase...idiomatic usage has no real relevance to the question of the term's flexibility in definition... your argument is like someone taking the phrase 'back seat driver' and using it to argue that you don't have to be in the driver's seat to drive a car...

No.

The plain reading of the text shows that one day can mean many days.

 

[Bowman]

each day in genesis 1 included a light period...ending with an evening...and a dark period...ending with a morning...which adds up to a normal twenty-four hour day...

No.

Each epoch of time is truncated with 'and there was evening and there was morning'...12hrs tops according to your reasoning.

but even if i were to accept your argument that the days in genesis 1 were twelve hour days...

Even Jesus Himself said that a day is 12hrs long.

you still cannot cram the billions of years required by old earth scenarios into that...

Define your term.

Any Hebrew lexicon will tell you that yawm is a flexible term and can easily mean an epoch of time.

Study up!

 

[enoch1nine]

The creation account is not written in past tense. It is written in present tense.
Very old earth, still the sixth day right now.

But no, it doesn't matter as far as whether a person loves his neighbor, will be saved, etc.

 

[Tethered]

I think the question isn't whether we agree with what scriptures say or not: it's whether we actually understand scriptures correctly or not.

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
To give the above scripture an understanding (or gap) of several billion years, gives credence to interpret as 'this is what was said, but here's what I think he meant' as lead by scientific consensus. I don't have a license to give an opinion on which is correct, but I am a fan of consistency.

 

[JesusChica1991]

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No offense but things like this are not to be posted in the forums

 

[prodigal]

reported as scam

Greetings to you in the name of the our lord Jesus Christ,


How are you doing today?I hope all is well with you and your family, i know that we haven't known or come across each other before considering the fact that my search of a trusted person who can assist me urgently...My name is Elizabeth Dixon...I am a 56 years of age woman diagnosed for long time cancer of the breast.From all indications , my condition is really deteriorating and is quite obvious that I may not live more than six months, because the cancer stage has gotten to a very severe stage.I am a good christian..I am originated from Australia...I was married to the late James Dixon... Last month my personal Physician told me my cancer condition is really deteriorating and i cannot live for more than four months.Due to this,i decided to sell all my belongings..I am willing to Donate the Huge Sum Of Dollars $$$ to the LessLess privilege ,Needy,Poor Ones,Orphanages and charity organizations...If you are God fearing person..I will like you to help me carry out this task which will be of high benefits to you as well..I will be praying hard that Satan will not stop this effort.Do contact me through my personal Email address ([email protected], [email protected]) and i will tell you more about this mission of what you wish to know.

 

[RickyZ]

genesis 5:3..."When Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years, he became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth."

but yes the verse you quoted also disproves the 'eons in eden' theory...

Wow, I gotta stop doing this in my sleep...

 

[RedTent]

The words of Genesis was given to Hebrews who thought and acted like Hebrews, not to Hellenized minds like we have. We tear things apart with our analyzing, explain how God did it ways of thinking. They didn't. If God said He created the earth, then they only wondered how they fit into that. God used the illustration of days to teach that we are to work for six days, so that is what they would do. God told of the seventh day, and they used that information for celebrating Sabbath. All this new earth old earth came thousands of years later. Even if they had been told of our discoveries, there wouldn't have been any of the thought process we go through. God made it happen, and understanding how and when God did it just would have been silly questions to them. God is God, that is how.

 

[Shiloah]

You should consider the 'Day-age' creation model and remain an old earther...and yes, it does matter to people outside the faith, as they see confusion within the faith, and they are often times put-off by such a simple thing that they never pursue what Christianity is all about.

I think this is a super-good point you're making. This 'Day-age' creation model you mention I also think is very interesting. I really don't worry about this stuff a lot myself, though I follow the different reasoning at the same time, curious how it will all turn out. You see, I just figure in advance, again, the truth will out--and it will all be perfectly consistent with scripture. It's kind of like sitting back in your seat and watching someone show you how something that seems impossible, isn't once you get all the necessary info in so as to accurately understand it. If it doesn't make perfect sense yet? Then all the applicable info isn't in yet.