J
JAPOV
Guest
Every lawyer, every politician, every minion of Lucifer must laugh every time we argue among ourselves... How appropriate for the first chapters of Revelation to be about God's judgment upon the churches!
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The word in Hebrews 10:10 is ἡγιασμένοι (hēgiasmenoi). It's different from Hebrews 10:14. For example, see below:
ἡγιασμένοι (hēgiasmenoi) Hebrews 10:10; Verb, Perfect, Participle, Passive.
ἁγιαζομένους (hagiazomenous) Hebrews 10:14; Verb, Present, Participle, Passive.
The Perfect tense (Hebrews 10:10) indicates a completed action which produces results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. So yes, Hebrews 10:10 is saying we have been sanctified, but it's not saying the same thing Hebrews 10:14 is saying. Two different words are used.
The Present tense (Hebrews 10:14) indicates continued action, something that happens continually or repeatedly, or something that is in the process of happening.
Hebrews 10:10 does not contradict Hebrews 10:14. We've been sanctified (or made perfect spiritually before God); and we continue to be sanctified in our bodies.
That's all I have to say on this. I know how it goes: "But KJV says this" and "KJV says that," ad infinitum.
J
JAPOV
Guest
This is classic deflection. You were asked a question which you failed to answer. So do you really understand faith? And do you really understand saving faith? Do you know the meaning of justified? How about imputed righteousness? And have you read and studied Romans chapter 4, as well as the entire epistle to the Romans?
J
JAPOV
Guest
If you truly understood "imputed righteousness" I don't believe you would be asking me such a stupid question...
John 13-3
Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He had come from God and was going to God, 4rose from supper and laid aside His garments, took a towel and girded Himself. 5After that, He poured water into a basin and began to wash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded. 6Then He came to Simon Peter. And Peter said to Him, “Lord, are You washing my feet?”
7Jesus answered and said to him, “What I am doing you do not understand now, but you will know after this.”
8Peter said to Him, “You shall never wash my feet!”
Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.”
John 13-3
Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He had come from God and was going to God, 4rose from supper and laid aside His garments, took a towel and girded Himself. 5After that, He poured water into a basin and began to wash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded. 6Then He came to Simon Peter. And Peter said to Him, “Lord, are You washing my feet?”
7Jesus answered and said to him, “What I am doing you do not understand now, but you will know after this.”
8Peter said to Him, “You shall never wash my feet!”
Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.”
We are in fact being sanctified in that in 1 John 1:7, the Greek verb tenses bear out that we are being continually cleansed from all sin.
Which does not deny the fact that there is a complete cleansing that has taken place and continues to be taking place. We are continually cleansed from all sin. Which means that, the moment sin comes in from the outside, immediately it is cleansed, so that all sin is always cleansed from the heart of the born again believer. Thus, since it is continually being cleansed, the believer is always being sanctified; while this does not deny the fact that the same believer may also be wholly sanctified.
Thus, we can begin with 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 and end with Hebrews 10:14; so that the latter reads, "For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them who have been <sanctified wholly>" especially when you consider the context in Hebrews 10:10; as the context bears out that the sanctification is completed in the believer in question.
But what you are purporting is that the kjv's rendering of Hebrews 10:14 is invalid.
Yet it should be clear to all that all scripture is inspired of the Lord and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness.
So, unless you are going to try and say that the kjv's rendering of Hebrews 10:14 is not scripture, I believe that you have lost this argument.
J
JAPOV
Guest
Isn't the fact that, only a perfect God among men can provide sanctification, the simplest and most logical answer?
s'far as I know folks are doing their best to follow Christ ... if you'll pardon me you strikes me as a bit of a lone ranger yourself.
J
JAPOV
Guest
It bothers me how convoluted and misleading everything has become in the name of "inclusion" and "equity" and "political correctness"... Faith and the Word should be unifying people and nationalities today. Instead, politicians will use Christianity as an example of divisiveness, bigotry, and racism... And what do you find in most churches? More divisiveness among the denominations! More preaching about profit! More politics!
I'm sorry if I sound pessimistic and down, but I really do believe the rapture is near! We shouldn't be arguing! We believers should be celebrating on sites like this!
BUT INSTEAD, WE ARGUE THE VALIDITY OF THE KING JAMES BIBLE!
WAKE UP!
WE ARE A HOUSE DIVIDED AND WE ARE ABOUT TO FALL!
FAITH IS A POOR EXCUSE FOR COMPLACENCY!
I'm sorry if I sound pessimistic and down, but I really do believe the rapture is near! We shouldn't be arguing! We believers should be celebrating on sites like this!
BUT INSTEAD, WE ARGUE THE VALIDITY OF THE KING JAMES BIBLE!
WAKE UP!
WE ARE A HOUSE DIVIDED AND WE ARE ABOUT TO FALL!
FAITH IS A POOR EXCUSE FOR COMPLACENCY!
J
JAPOV
Guest
Example:
We should be truly excited! We should be talking about "what it's going to be like in God's Kingdom"! How cool it's going to be to meet people from 6000yrs ago!
THE WHOLE WORLD SHOULD KNOW THAT WE BELIEVERS ARE ACTUALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS CURRENT WORLD SYSTEM BEING SWEPT AWAY AND REPLACED!
Just don't be fooled by what what the Devil has in mind first!
Where's the party? WHO'S PREACHING THE GOOD NEWS!?!
We should be truly excited! We should be talking about "what it's going to be like in God's Kingdom"! How cool it's going to be to meet people from 6000yrs ago!
THE WHOLE WORLD SHOULD KNOW THAT WE BELIEVERS ARE ACTUALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS CURRENT WORLD SYSTEM BEING SWEPT AWAY AND REPLACED!
Just don't be fooled by what what the Devil has in mind first!
Where's the party? WHO'S PREACHING THE GOOD NEWS!?!
Whether or not Christ-like perfection is obtainable, I believe we should desire that. No, being perfect is not a pre-requisite for salvation because no one gets salvation through self-effort. However, being good, righteous, holy, and obeying God's commands are part of the test of life as a Christian because we know the truth about Christ: he was crucified, buried, and rose again on the third day. Christians are tested for the purpose of bringing God glory. God wants glory.
I digress a bit, but back to my point. We should atleast believe we can be Christ-like, albeit not Christ Himself or God.
2 Corinthians 3:18
18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Romans 8:29
29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Hebrews 2:10
10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
LOL. . .as usual, an artful dodge. Rather than address my point you attack me personally. From what I can tell, everyone who does what's right in his own eyes (denominationalism) is good in your book. Anyone who speaks out against error is a "lone ranger."
No one will admit it, but that's really all denominationalism is: everyone doing what's right in his own eyes. They can't be bothered with God's word but would rather follow men.
I'm not the one arguing the validity of the King James Bible. I've said all I'm going to say on the matter. If others want to waste their time in this unfruitful effort that's their problem.
You think everyone should get excited about the rapture; but not everyone sees it as you do. I personally believe Christians will go through most of the tribulation. What you really want is for everyone to get on board your pretribulation rapture belief.
But regardless of the timing of the rapture, we should love one another. Unfortunately denominationalism has divided the body. Denominationalism is what everyone subscribes to so until that goes there will be no unity.
Your faith does NOT make you perfect...
Actually, it does. (The just shall live by faith.)
Otherwise, we could never enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Through Jesus, we are perfectly cleansed by The Blood of the Lamb. We call it "Justification." We are fully redeemed. This does not mean that never make mistakes, of course. Timely humble repentance is required by our Lord...
Ephesians
4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
4:27 Neither give place to the devil.
4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with [his] hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Actually, it does. (The just shall live by faith.)
Otherwise, we could never enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Through Jesus, we are perfectly cleansed by The Blood of the Lamb. We call it "Justification." We are fully redeemed. This does not mean that never make mistakes, of course. Timely humble repentance is required by our Lord...
Ephesians
4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
4:27 Neither give place to the devil.
4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with [his] hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
The man Jesus was created by the fleshy part of the woman Mary and His Spirit was created directly from the image of God. I am sure the wording is offish to some, but the gist is there.
It was said of Jesus that “He thought it not robbery to be equal with God”.
I am going to make a bold statement which most of you will think I am being deceived, but that is okay, but, as people who not only are made in the image of God and after His likeness, and have been baptized into His Holy Ghost, we too should not think it robbery to be equal with God.
Now, let me clarify that before I am taken outside this firewall and smitten with bytes.
Collectively we are all ONE in Christ, Christ is ONE with the Father and “I and my Father are ONE”. What does that make us?
Now, the BIG question, why did God create this earth, built a separate spiritual laboratory called Eden placed man and a woman in it, created in His likeness, gave them a commandment of ”do not eat”, when God knew full well that such a commandment given to free individuals who are created after His likeness would take of that tree and then promise redemption through Christ thousands of years later?
Why?
What was God doing?
We could say, “He is God, He can do whatever He wants to do.” No, God doesn’t do things whimsical, there is always a purpose to His creation. He never wastes power to entertain Himself or people. If He did, then Christ would have came down off the cross after hearing the temptation “If thou be the son of God come down off the cross and we’ll believe”.
The answer is in the bible.
It was said of Jesus that “He thought it not robbery to be equal with God”.
I am going to make a bold statement which most of you will think I am being deceived, but that is okay, but, as people who not only are made in the image of God and after His likeness, and have been baptized into His Holy Ghost, we too should not think it robbery to be equal with God.
Now, let me clarify that before I am taken outside this firewall and smitten with bytes.
Collectively we are all ONE in Christ, Christ is ONE with the Father and “I and my Father are ONE”. What does that make us?
Now, the BIG question, why did God create this earth, built a separate spiritual laboratory called Eden placed man and a woman in it, created in His likeness, gave them a commandment of ”do not eat”, when God knew full well that such a commandment given to free individuals who are created after His likeness would take of that tree and then promise redemption through Christ thousands of years later?
Why?
What was God doing?
We could say, “He is God, He can do whatever He wants to do.” No, God doesn’t do things whimsical, there is always a purpose to His creation. He never wastes power to entertain Himself or people. If He did, then Christ would have came down off the cross after hearing the temptation “If thou be the son of God come down off the cross and we’ll believe”.
The answer is in the bible.
Romans12:1-2
King James Version
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.