"Your heavenly Father." Matthew 6:26
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all i'm saying is that by missing 'the actual meaning of the OP' you missed the tree's for the forest. But that aside.. I think we can all agree as Christians how great it is to be adopted as sons/daughter into God's family and into his Kingdom now 
When is the adoption according to the bible in Rom 8.23 ? I'm aware of what some theologians/ commentators teach . But the bible says that the adoption is the redemption of the body . I believe the bible on this.all i'm saying is that by missing 'the actual meaning of the OP' you missed the tree's for the forest. But that aside.. I think we can all agree as Christians how great it is to be adopted as sons/daughter into God's family and into his Kingdom now
Are you not already a child of God in his family? If you are then you have already been adopted my friend. We already partake in the blessings in Christ (Already) but we will be fully glorified and enjoy the Jesus and his blessings without sinful desires, tears, hurts and pains (Not Yet).
Already -not yet. We have been saved, we are being saved, and will be saved..
It is true that the Prayer is a shortened version of a prayer the Jews pray(ed). However, that in no way excludes it from being for the Church today.
Isn't it quaint how people have ' adopted ' the western idea of ' Adoption ' and twisted verses to fit this romantic idea about being in the ' family of God ' . Which verse says this stuff . What does the bible actually say ?
Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)
Sinners become sons of God through the new birth, not through adoption. (John 1:12-13)
I have no issue with people who use it . its Just a point that Biblically its not the right context.
Hi through,
I'm not sure what you mean by western idea of adoption.. even the Romans adopted son, and they could even ''''inherit'''
Are you saying you ARE NOT an adopted son of God already?
Your begging the question. The bible says we become sons through the new birth . God is not drafting up legal documents, going through photos and picking us to take home with him , signing legal documents. No we immediately become sons through the new birth. Directly. THE Adoption is all about the redemption of the body . Thats what the bible says .John 1.12 . Rom 8.23 .
Romans 8:23
The apostle uses the word "firstfruits" in relation to redemption, and he employs "Spirit" in the same general sense as "guarantee" of the Spirit as in Ephesians 1:14. Firstfruits here literally means "a beginning," indicating a start has been made and more will follow.
John W. Ritenbaugh
Our Uniqueness and Time
(excerpt)
The picture Paul paints here ties together several things he has written in Romans 8 so far. He has said that God has given us in the Holy Spirit what he called the "Spirit of adoption" (Romans 8:15). We have already been adopted and have become the full children of God through faith in Christ. So what are we waiting for if the adoption is complete?
Paul has written about a disconnect between our spirits and our bodies: "…although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness" (Romans 8:10). It's true that we are fully God's children right now through faith in Christ, but we have yet to meet our Father in person. We have been freed from the eternal penalty for sin, but our bodies continue to experience the temporary consequence of sin: death. We are dying, and these bodies will die.
So what are we adopted children of God waiting for? We're waiting for our bodies to be redeemed after we die physically and are then resurrected as Christ was. Or as someone put it: Our adoption is complete; we're just waiting for our father to come and pick us up so that we can be with Him.
(here)
What does Romans 8:23 mean? - Online Bible Commentary
the argument seems to be unnecessary since both have relevance
The apostle uses the word "firstfruits" in relation to redemption, and he employs "Spirit" in the same general sense as "guarantee" of the Spirit as in Ephesians 1:14. Firstfruits here literally means "a beginning," indicating a start has been made and more will follow.
John W. Ritenbaugh
Our Uniqueness and Time
(excerpt)
The picture Paul paints here ties together several things he has written in Romans 8 so far. He has said that God has given us in the Holy Spirit what he called the "Spirit of adoption" (Romans 8:15). We have already been adopted and have become the full children of God through faith in Christ. So what are we waiting for if the adoption is complete?
Paul has written about a disconnect between our spirits and our bodies: "…although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness" (Romans 8:10). It's true that we are fully God's children right now through faith in Christ, but we have yet to meet our Father in person. We have been freed from the eternal penalty for sin, but our bodies continue to experience the temporary consequence of sin: death. We are dying, and these bodies will die.
So what are we adopted children of God waiting for? We're waiting for our bodies to be redeemed after we die physically and are then resurrected as Christ was. Or as someone put it: Our adoption is complete; we're just waiting for our father to come and pick us up so that we can be with Him.
(here)
What does Romans 8:23 mean? - Online Bible Commentary
the argument seems to be unnecessary since both have relevance
Romans 8:19
“For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.”
Notice the ' waiteth' for the ' manifestation ' ?
what is that ?
The answer is in the next verses .
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
How can the idea be that Adoption is conversion ? When it says were waiting for the adoption?
Yes I know what those good ole trusted theologians, who some think can't be wrong , teach .
you put :
////The picture Paul paints here ties together several things he has written in Romans 8 so far. He has said that God has given us in the Holy Spirit what he called the "Spirit of adoption" (Romans 8:15). We have already been adopted and have become the full children of God through faith in Christ. So what are we waiting for if the adoption is complete?
That literally makes no sense . Yes the Holy Spirit IS the guarantee that the adoption ( future ) will take place. But something future hasn't happened yet . Were WAITING for it as rom 8.23 actually says . So we're better off believing the bible. We are not partially conformed , We don't have a part redeemed body. My left foot is not redeemed awaiting the completion. its not an installment scheme . SPIRIT OF !! IS NOT THE !! ADOPTION. ITS THE GURANTEE UNTIL !!! So its a complete fudge to say " ah yes but we are adopted, erm because erm ...well because we are a son and erm ...child of God ...and its a family and erm ...well yes its like the way we adopt in the west and ermm" ....NO VERSES SAY THIS . This is silly because we have a painfully clear verse telling us what the adoption is Its Rom 8.23 .
22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
In any normal sense ,when you are waiting for something you don't have it yet . We can pay upfront for a nose job . The doctor can Guarantee that because you have paid it will take place . But until the operation you don't have that new nose yet . Your waiting for it . Rom 8.23 .
How can you become a son in someone else's family and enjoy all the benefits the new parents give without being adopted by the parents. And yes I know the ordo salutes (and I have denominational ordo salutis) but they all believe they are adopted son/daughters now (well 99% of Christians)
Yes, I'm adopted already as a son... and I agree with the scripture you provided that I am also awaiting that fullness of adoption. Already - not yet.
How can you become a son in someone else's family and enjoy all the benefits the new parents give without being adopted.
Anyhow Throughfaith I think we'll again have to agree to disagree. But I do pray you think it over, and pray over.. and don't let your disdain of reformed theology close your eyes to other points of view. Read what what Christians have said about scripture through the ages.
We all stand on the shoulders of those gone before us.
Have a pleasant evening throughfaith.
Yes, I'm adopted already as a son... and I agree with the scripture you provided that I am also awaiting that fullness of adoption. Already - not yet.
How can you become a son in someone else's family and enjoy all the benefits the new parents give without being adopted.
Anyhow Throughfaith I think we'll again have to agree to disagree. But I do pray you think it over, and pray over.. and don't let your disdain of reformed theology close your eyes to other points of view. Read what what Christians have said about scripture through the ages.
We all stand on the shoulders of those gone before us.
Have a pleasant evening throughfaith.
Scripture please ? your giving me a nice sounding story. Salvation is not a western adoption agency lol
This is how we become a son .
John 1.12
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Is there anything about adoption there ?
' Predestination ' ? I'm glad I'm predestined to glorification. Most believe they were predestinated to be converted. This is no comfort .