I guess outright insulting me last year, by name wasn’t important enough for you to remember. And “feigning” you don’t remember? Or maybe you really don’t remember. I go off the rails sometimes, too. Yesterday being a good example of that. I try and apologize and make amends with people. But, if they do not acknowledge what they have done, and maintain their character and behaviour is above reproach? Pretty hard to reconcile that.
I do NOT agree with Word Faith or hypergrace. I have posted the Scriptures, the Greek and/or Hebrew, over and over, the reasons why they are both wrong.
Word Faith is the most offensive and condemning doctrine there is today. Anyone who is sick, hurting, broken, suffering, poor or any other sort of mental or physical pain is outright condemned for not having enough faith, or not even being saved. Yet, it persists in this forum. Now, if someone want so show what they think the Bible says, I am not against that. I will meet it head on with what the Bible really says, and what proper hermeneutics says.
But, it never stops there. It always goes into judging and condemning people. And saying God didn’t tell Satan to attack Job. It worries me to no end, that people only read these eisgeteically unsound and horrible sermons and devotionals, and post them, and do NOT read their Bibles. NO person who is deeply into the Bible, instead of the words of these false teachers, would come up with this kind of lie.
As for hypergrace, the next step after Word Faith, which not even Word Faith people agree with, I have 2 giant objections.
1. Hypergrace shows no comprehension of the character of God. Yes, God is totally loving! But, the other side of that coin, is that God is just. That means because of his great love for us, his children, he does chastize us. And sometimes, that is through sickness. Or financial loss or any of the thousands of things that happen to us. I have learned so much more through sickness than I ever did when healthy. About God! About the character of God.
I weep with joy to realize that God has entrusted me with so much, and trusted me to follow him through the darkest valley of the shadow of death. God is NOT a cosmic sadist, which hypergrace seems to imply. Not being healed is not a sign of a lack of faith on the part of the believer, nor a sign that God is not in control. God can only work good things for good according to hypergrace, not bad things, or indeed, that all things work together for good.
”And we know God causes ALL things together for good to those who love him, and are called according to his purpose“ Romans 8:28
Hypergrace changes, the word “all” (panta) to “only good things to those who believe.” What a truncated view of God. God knows the beginning from the end. He knows what we need, to be transformed into his image. He is just, he is loving. That means leaving this shallow view of God behind, and instead seeing God as the cosmic ruler of the universe that he is.
For believers, it means trusting God in the storm, in the fire and flood. It means even when God gives us no answer to our prayers, he is good, and he will work it out for good. BUT, it does not mean God only gives us good things. Good things and feelings, have nothing to do with the incredible journey we walk with Christ, although, they are nice. But not necessary!
But, we have to know God, and to trust him no matter what. That is what develops our character, which lasts forever.
2. An overrealized eschatology. It only focuses on justification. It is only concerned that we are born again, not how we are sancified. (And I see, Ben, you have moved a bit on this issue, in a post subsequent to these two.). When we are saved, we still live on this earth. We still live in a fallen world, whichis not restored. If people wrote about “I will be healed when I see Jesus face to face, when he returns,” I would be shouting AMEN.
Hypergrace tries to reconcile the truth of living in a fallen world, by ignoring the parts of the Bible it does not like. Why have I never seen a hypergrace person, including Joanie and JGIG’s gurus, post on the “all” of Romans 8:28. Or the “suffering...produces character” in Romans 5:3-5. Because verse 5, points out that suffering is a result of God’s love, and his transformation being affected in our lives. And in fact, we rejoice in our suffering!
”More than that, we rejoice in our suffering, knowing that suffering produces endurance, endurance produces character, and character produces hope. And hope does not disappoint, because God’s love has been poured out by the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.” Romans 5:3-5.
If a Mormon or Muslim comes into this forum, and teaches another gospel, (which is what hypergrace is also!), then I deal with the doctrine, and/or report them. Sometimes I hope they can be persuaded to Christ. Sometimes, it seems they are just here to proselytize, and they are not opening to listening. I have yet to insult one of those people, what is the point?
You have taken personally, the complaints I have with a very false, very truncated gospel. That is being preached over and over. it diminishes sin to nothing, confession to being nothing to do with sin. For that matter, repentance has been redefined, to mean “change of mind.”
And yet, Bauer, BDAG, clearly shows that the first definition, (which is NOT the right or best definition. Bauer always starts with the non-Biblical definitions, then goes to the Biblical definitions!) metanoia, does mean, “change of mind,” in non-Biblical early sources. I have never argued against that. But someone even posted that first definition, which is without a single Bible verse, which the lexicon always highlights in bold print the Bible verses, and none are there, after the first definition.
The Bible definitions are the next section, and they include:
”repentance, turning about, conversion” verses include, but not limited to: Hebrews 6:1; Acts 20:20, 26:20;Matt 3:8, Luke 3:8; Matt 3:11cc; Luke 15:10. 24:47; Hebrews 12:17; Acts 5:31, 11:18; 2 Tim 2:25, Hebrews 6:6; 2 Peter 3:9, 2 Cor, 7:9, 10.
It is the same with metanoéo. This is the verb, associated with metanoia, the noun. First “change one’s mind” all non-biblical references. The second definition: “to feel remorse, repent, be converted.” Then a small list of non-biblical sources, then large list of Bible verses, using not “changing one’s mind” but rather, repentance from sins, (that is the context!).
When anyone or any preacher, or any cult, or any church leaves out the Biblical definitions that God is just, and that being a good Father, means he works ALL things for good, not just things we want, when definitions are changed, and context ignored, (I didn’t get into that, but so important!) then this is a false gospel. When words are twisted and changed, or left out completely that is the definition of a “truncated” gospel.
Now, Ben, if you so closely identify with this false gospel, that pointing out the real word definitions in the Bible, or the context, or the true and full character of God, means you feel I am directly atttacking you, it would seem to me that your really are in a cult. Because normally, (I admit, I had a bad night last night, and for that I apologize to you, and anyone else), we need to examine what the other person is saying, in light of the Bible, not in light of our identification with our beliefs. If we see something, and it is convicting and disturbing to us, time to revisit the whole topic, using the Bible, not the words of men. Time to look at context.
The entire Bible is about God’s justice, which must be satisfied. I agree, Jesus fulfilled God’s justice, but that doesn’t mean we can just set aside who God is, in some mistaken effort to ignore what we don’t like.
If you read something and you know it is wrong, not in the Bible, then show it. Don’t be personally insulted every time I show why hypergrace is wrong in the Bible. But then again, don’t come back reposting the same verses or parts of verses out of context, or like someone did here, when they took a verse and made it about healing, “because the Holy Spirit told them so!” And why? Because what the Holy Spirit supposedly told them, was a direct contradiction to the Bible. The Holy Spirit never contradicts himself, or changes his mind about what he meant.
And yet, this “further revelation” which is in contradiction with the Bible, is being used to make the Bible mean whatever you want. That is what I am against, and I will continue to preach against, and teach against, regardless of who says it, or what is being said. And they also come back with that they have had “further revelation” because they are walking in the Spirit! Say what? Do you think that the many of us who search the Scriptures, obey God, and pray and listen to the Holy Spirit are lacking direction from the Holy Spirit, because we disagree with bad interpretations? That is the weakest excuse I have ever seen!
So Ben, if someone else wrote the posts you do about hypergrace, I would still fight against the errors. And, I think it is the height of hypocrisy, for someone to give it out, when they can’t take it. I wish I had the post that you just attacked me for what I believe, by name and link to remind you. But, my philosophy is to mostly to walk away from those insults, not memorize them. In fact, you have been on ignore, Ben, for over a year. I sometimes see your posts quoted, but I ignore them. So all this talk of me attacking you is very strange. I don’t even read your posts, mostly, anymore. Unless someone sends me a link to it, saying answer it, or “wow, this person is changing for the good.”
The only reason I took you off ignore today, Ben, is because someone told me about your change of heart and understanding of the whole soteriological journey with Christ. I hope this clears the air.
I will continue to attack false beliefs and twisting of the Bible, no matter who posts it, or what it is about. If you want to take it personally, that is your choice.
