The Law is not good enough!

Mem · Oct 19, 2014

Let's get to the heart of the matter. Jesus differentiated the obedience of the letter of the law from the spirit of the law by demonstrating committing murder by hating. So, although someone can keep the letter of the law by never murdering anyone, if they hate their brother, they are guilty of not keeping the law, indeed. That is the difference between the letter and the true spirit of it, they both have to match. If anyone keeps that commandment it is kept in their heart also or it is not kept at all.

Mem · Oct 19, 2014

For instance, the young rich man kept the letter of the law, but when asked to put God above all his riches, it broke his heart to think it, and he went away sad. He went away sad because Jesus made His point. And the Pharisees, they probably kept the letter of the law as is accustomed to even come into the position, but Jesus saw in their hearts their desire to kill Him. He was not judging their law, he was judging their heart not having the spirit of the law of thou should not commit murder. And the Romans (gentiles) were not guiltless either, as it was not in their heart to murder Him, they were indifferent, but they did carry it out, nonetheless.

ELECT · Oct 19, 2014

Word_Swordsman said:

How wonderful if everyone sought to make sure everything done is to the profit and good of neighbors! Good works everywhere all the time.

As grandparents of two girls we learned there are some differences from raising their parents. There were some disagreements as to how to raise them. But all the early years had in common a constant need to be told "Don't do that, or I'll", or any of a large variation of sayings to train them to not do bad works, to set boundaries and not let them move an inch until they were found faithful in the little. Gradually their little boundaries widened to take in a lot more territory. Then suddenly the day came when there wasn't a single fight over a doll! I mentioned that. he oldest one said
Pappy, Jesus doesn't like arguments." I have learned those two know how to discern, how to figure out, which course of action in most cases would be the good work. They have worked hard to escape the terminology of "DON'T".

The Law serves to train how not to abuse neighbor. I couldn't likely find much scripture in the Law to regulate every challenge they face. But they are listening to God now, have the Lord's righteousness within them. Once they got just a little comprehension of how much Jesus loved them, they are enabled to sharpen how they will love one another and other kids at school.

They went home, and it was quiet. A thought came over me. Does God have to say DON'T to me? Or do I have the right attitude to do the works of righteousness by that righteousness of God dwelling in me? I soon realized I had to stop settling for loving neighbors according to my pitiful love of myself. That was such a hindrance!

The Law commands to do it that way. But the Holy Spirit says do it Jesus' LOVE WAY according to how much He loves me...and you. That trumps whatever "love" I have for myself. Why? Such a love reminds me to eat food, stay clean for health, etc. All that is of the flesh, in the mind, and turned inwardly to "self" like "naval gazing". That has good in it, else all of us be ravenous "wolves", despising civilization. But it isn't the path to righteousness of God and doing right by neighbors, and the Lord. Jesus made the path, the way of eternal life. Because of it that healthy love will lead to a proper love of self without being puffed up over myself.

What is a precept? Are any precepts for us today ?

crossnote · Oct 19, 2014

Another one who blamelessly kept the letter of the law, but...

Philippians 3:4-8 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

ELECT · Oct 19, 2014

crossnote said:

you forgot

as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Paul is speaking from whence he was a Pharasee thus just as all the Pharasees thought they were blameless yet keeping the letter of the law but not the spirit of the law which is to hate your neighbour in the heart and not shew it outwardly

Mem · Oct 19, 2014

ELECT said:

Aye, the righteousness which is in the law (is) blameless. Right? He didn't blame the law, he counted his trust in his ability to keep the spirit of it, as he only kept it in letter, that is, until he received Christ into his heart.

crossnote · Oct 20, 2014

ELECT said:

Sure, outward righteousness by the law didn't cut it for Paul, he learned that in comparison to knowing Christ they were but dung.

You left out parts...

Philippians 3:4-8 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

crossnote · Oct 20, 2014

Part of that knowledge came from suffering with Christ...

Philippians 3:9-10 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

ELECT · Oct 20, 2014

crossnote said:

Sure, outward righteousness by the law didn't cut it for Paul, he learned that in comparison to knowing Christ they were but dung.

You left out parts...

Philippians 3:4-8 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

Circumcised the eighth day, think about it

crossnote · Oct 20, 2014

Thus the law definitely is not good enough.

crossnote · Oct 20, 2014

ELECT said:

All dung and filthy rags compared to the excellency of knowing Christ.

ELECT · Oct 20, 2014

crossnote said:

Part of that knowledge came from suffering with Christ...

Philippians 3:9-10 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

What law was he referring to ? the ten commanments ?

ELECT · Oct 20, 2014

crossnote said:

Was the law dung or the life as a pharasee ?

tribesman · Oct 20, 2014

ELECT said:

Blameless before the Pharisees, maybe. Blameless before God? Definitely not!

And this is what he said about the Pharisees and their ignorance about God's righteousness:

crossnote · Oct 20, 2014

ELECT said:

His own righteousness derived from the Law

Yahshua · Oct 20, 2014

peacefulbeliever said:

Well if you're asking me; I possess no house of my own...no car of my own...I work for just enough and give away the extra. A couple of years ago I decided to sell all of what I considered my prized possessions (i.e. those earthly treasures I've accumulated) and gave the profit to water.org, and childfund.org. I only have what I need to work. It was a drop in the bucket for what they actually need, but my giving to them was about proving my faith in Christ AND about doing what Christ said to do. So now you know someone.

The words of Christ are a serious matter to me. I don't explain them away. I don't ignore some words for other words. It all must fit together. If he said to do something I either follow it or I prove I don't actually believe in him.

For example, if you tell someone to "turn around, walk the other way because you're about to walk off a cliff" and they don't do what you say, do they believe in you? Of course not, else they would've quickly followed your instructions. And more to the point, if that someone tell others they actually *do* believe in you (i.e. that they do believe in the words you've spoken), but at the same time choose *not* to do what you said (i.e. choose not to follow those words), isn't that person - at best - a crazy person or - at worst - a liar? The proof of one's belief in you is following what you said, not mentally acknowledging the fact that you're trying to save them. If they believed in you they would've done what you said.

Romans 10:4

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believes.

John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So Christ says in Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18-19, and Luke 18:18-20 that to receive everlasting life one must keep The Commandments. This is what he said.

If Christ tells someone to "keep the commandments in order to have everlasting life" and they don't do what he says, do they believe in him? Do they believe his word is true? And more to the point, if that someone tell others they actually *do* believe in Christ (i.e. they do believe in the words he's spoken), but at the same time choose *not* to do what he said (i.e. choose not to follow his words) isn't that person - at best - a crazy person or - at worst - a liar?

The proof of one's belief in Christ is in one's obedience to what Christ said. The proof of one's belief in Christ is not mentally acknowledging that Christ is saving us with his blood, because if we don't do what he says we're treating that very blood as an unholy thing (Hebrews 10:29); as a license to sin.

John 6:63

The words I speak to you are spirit and *they* (i.e. the words Christ spoke) are life.

We must accept his *words* in order to receive his life.

Luke 6:46

46"Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

47"Everyone who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them, I will show you whom he is like

48 he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built

oldthennew · Oct 20, 2014

Yahshua,

Yes, there are those of us who have forsaken all for Christ.
Shortly after our conversion we were convicted to give away all
of our worldly wealth, down to the last penny.

for us, it was a symbolic separation from everything that connected
us to what is called 'spiritual Sodom and Egypt.'
it truly was our brand-new-beginning, and out of necessity we had
to Trust in Christ for every single thing, as we do to this day.

over the years our needs were and are met on every level according
to God's will.

my wife and I commend you for your faith and works.
let us never forget, that even though we may give away all
of our worldly possessions and our body to be burned, if
it is not coupled with Christ's Love, it profits nothing.'

BradC · Oct 20, 2014

We have an illustration between one who lived by the law and the other who was a lawless sinner in great need of mercy and grace from the Lord. Only one went home that day justified by faith and made righteous through mercy without a single act of obedience to the law.

Luke 18:10-14

Jesus Christ is not the personification of one who came to keep every jot and tittle of the law, he is the personification of the one who came to give life to the unrighteous, the sinner, the lawless and the sick. He came to put away sin that the law condemned and to be merciful and gracious to transgressors.

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

There was a time before the law came and during that time sin was not imputed where there is no law. Then the law came to make sin exceedingly sinful and to point the finger of condemnation at the guilty. Then Christ came and the Father was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their sins and trespasses unto them. How can a holy and righteous God, who is perfect and just, not impute sin? The answer is this... Christ came as the Lamb of God and took away the sin of the world by having all sin imputed unto him and judged all sin by crucified it through death. That is the gospel of grace that we are to give to all men in all nations, for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. The glory of God is to have His righteousness imputed unto us by and through the law of faith without works or deeds to any form or conformity to the law of Moses, which includes the 10 commandments.

just-me · Oct 20, 2014

BradC
I have a couple of questions so that we will all know what is in your heart.
1. Through the salvation you have received in Christ Jesus, are you now better than the law that was not good enough?
2. Do you believe that the words God spoke to Moses have never been good enough for our instruction after we are saved?

Elin · Oct 20, 2014

just-me said:

I'll also answer the question.

Nothing but faith in God's promise (Jesus Christ) is good enough to save.

Through salvation in Christ Jesus, we are as much better than the law than Jesus is,
for we have the righteousness of God (Ro 1:17) as a gift (Ro 5:17).

The new covenant law of Jesus Christ (Mt 22:38-39; Gal 5:6) put in our mind and written on our heart
is good enough instruction for those in the new covenant after they are saved, for it fulfills the law.

The Law is not good enough!

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