The Law is not good enough!

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B

BradC

Guest
#61
BradC
I have a couple of questions so that we will all know what is in your heart.
1. Through the salvation you have received in Christ Jesus, are you now better than the law that was not good enough?
2. Do you believe that the words God spoke to Moses have never been good enough for our instruction after we are saved?
A 1. Because of the cross we now have the righteousness of God imputed unto us by faith and have been given the Spirit of God to dwell within which far exceeds and excels the law in glory and in our walk with God. Read Gal 5:18 very carefully.

B 2. Have not others told you over and over what the answer to that question is and did you receive what they had to say? It is all in the new covenant of grace that we are under but you seem to miss it because there is a covering over your heart that has not been lifted and you are in bondage to the law.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#62
BradC
I have a couple of questions so that we will all know what is in your heart.
1. Through the salvation you have received in Christ Jesus, are you now better than the law that was not good enough?
2. Do you believe that the words God spoke to Moses have never been good enough for our instruction after we are saved?
A 1. Because of the cross we now have the righteousness of God imputed unto us by faith and have been given the Spirit of God to dwell within which far exceeds and excels the law in glory and in our walk with God. Read Gal 5:18 very carefully.

B 2. Have not others told you over and over what the answer to that question is and did you receive what they had to say? It is all in the new covenant of grace that we are under but you seem to miss it because there is a covering over your heart that has not been lifted and you are in bondage to the law.
As I read "very carefully" are these scriptures contradictory in your opinion?
Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
John 5:46-47
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

In my opinion being lifted "up" is out from underneath. Make sense?
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
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#63
As I read "very carefully" are these scriptures contradictory in your opinion?
Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
John 5:46-47
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

In my opinion being lifted "up" is out from underneath. Make sense?
Not contradictory although now we have One greater than Moses...One who gives us the Spirit..and so Ga 5:18
 
Feb 21, 2012
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#64
Well if you're asking me; I possess no house of my own...no car of my own...I work for just enough and give away the extra. A couple of years ago I decided to sell all of what I considered my prized possessions (i.e. those earthly treasures I've accumulated) and gave the profit to water.org, and childfund.org. I only have what I need to work. It was a drop in the bucket for what they actually need, but my giving to them was about proving my faith in Christ AND about doing what Christ said to do. So now you know someone.
For by grace are you saved and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
The words of Christ are a serious matter to me. I don't explain them away. I don't ignore some words for other words. It all must fit together. If he said to do something I either follow it or I prove I don't actually believe in him.
The words of Christ are a serious matter to me. I don't explain them away and I don't ignore some words for other words. It ALL must fit together NO CONTRADICTIONS. I follow what he said to ME as ME IN THE BODY OF CHRIST. Jesus is the end of the law FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS. We cannot EARN righteousness. It is given to us by faith [belief] in Jesus Christ.
For example, if you tell someone to "turn around, walk the other way because you're about to walk off a cliff" and they don't do what you say, do they believe in you? Of course not, else they would've quickly followed your instructions. And more to the point, if that someone tell others they actually *do* believe in you (i.e. that they do believe in the words you've spoken), but at the same time choose *not* to do what you said (i.e. choose not to follow those words), isn't that person - at best - a crazy person or - at worst - a liar? The proof of one's belief in you is following what you said, not mentally acknowledging the fact that you're trying to save them. If they believed in you they would've done what you said.


Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believes.


John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


So Christ says in Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18-19, and Luke 18:18-20 that to receive everlasting life one must keep The Commandments. This is what he said.
It is also said that "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes" and "For s by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one [man] shall many be made righteous." and "Therefore by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference".
If Christ tells someone to "keep the commandments in order to have everlasting life" and they don't do what he says, do they believe in him? Do they believe his word is true? And more to the point, if that someone tell others they actually *do* believe in Christ (i.e. they do believe in the words he's spoken), but at the same time choose *not* to do what he said (i.e. choose not to follow his words) isn't that person - at best - a crazy person or - at worst - a liar?

The proof of one's belief in Christ is in one's obedience to what Christ said. The proof of one's belief in Christ is not mentally acknowledging that Christ is saving us with his blood, because if we don't do what he says we're treating that very blood as an unholy thing (Hebrews 10:29); as a license to sin.


John 6:63
The words I speak to you are spirit and *they* (i.e. the words Christ spoke) are life.

We must accept his *words* in order to receive his life.

Luke 6:46
46"Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

47"Everyone who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them, I will show you whom he is like

48 he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built

Let me speak plainly - NO ONE is saying that we shouldn't obey, i.e. walk by the Spirit. But that salvation is a gift of grace through faith in Jesus Christ. We do not WORK for our salvation nor is there anything we can do to be good in and of ourselves. It takes the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and that comes from being born again and that can not and is not achieved through WORKS.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,753
711
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#65
For by grace are you saved and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
The words of Christ are a serious matter to me. I don't explain them away and I don't ignore some words for other words. It ALL must fit together NO CONTRADICTIONS. I follow what he said to ME as ME IN THE BODY OF CHRIST. Jesus is the end of the law FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS. We cannot EARN righteousness. It is given to us by faith [belief] in Jesus Christ.

It is also said that "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes" and "For s by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one [man] shall many be made righteous." and "Therefore by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference".

Let me speak plainly - NO ONE is saying that we shouldn't obey, i.e. walk by the Spirit. But that salvation is a gift of grace through faith in Jesus Christ. We do not WORK for our salvation nor is there anything we can do to be good in and of ourselves. It takes the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and that comes from being born again and that can not and is not achieved through WORKS.
Peacefulbeliever, here's what you and many others (including the OP, BradC) are misunderstanding...the topic of this thread is "eternal life", not "salvation". Not once was I talking about law-keeping for salvation.

Salvation =/= Eternal Life...else we *all* - who've confessed Christ - would no longer die. But we still do for now.

Salvation is not Eternal Life, no more than Israel's Passover Lamb in Egypt was their Promised Land.

The original premise of this thread is "The Law *only* is not good enough to inherit eternal life" (Christ's words in Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18-19, and Luke 18:18-20), which is a true statement. But then an error is made in the OP's conclusion because he, like many - in misunderstanding the difference between salvation and eternal life - change the topic of this thread and begin discussing whether or not the law brings salvation (and let me state for the record that it does not, and never could).


Again Salvation does not equal Eternal Life.

What happened to ancient Israel is our example for a reason (1 Cor 10:11); it's so we don't do what we're doing now, which is seriously misunderstanding Paul's words. If we do not understand what ancient Israel went through and why, thoroughly, we haven't a clue what the true gospel is. Note the order of events:

Israel was *saved* by the mercy of God through blood of the lamb...which was not of their own merit or work. It *saved* them from (a) death and (b) slavery to Egypt. But AFTER they were saved they could not remain in Egypt. They had to - themselves - walk out of Egypt (a work)...first they received the tablets of the testimony (God's Commandments on the outside) and then they had to walk towards their promise (Canaan), obeying God's Commandments along the way (a work).

Notice: Their Salvation was the starting point...it was now behind them. They were now required to move on from it, walking towards their promise (their work to do).

---

Likewise we are *saved* by the mercy of God through the blood of Christ...which was not of our own merit or work. He *saved* us from (a) death and (b) slavery to Sin. But AFTER we were saved we can not remain in Sin. We have to - ourselves - walk out of Sin (a work)...first we receive the Holy Spirit (God's Commandments on the inside) and then we have to walk towards our promise (the "house" prepared for us; the new body; Eternal Life), obeying God's Commandments along the way (a work).

Notice: Our Salvation was the starting point...it is now (or should be) behind us. We are now required to move on from it, working towards our promise (our work to do).

Hebrew 6:1
Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ [i.e. that he died for our sins] and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death (i.e. SINS), and of faith in God,

1 Corinthians 3:11-13
11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now [i.e. at this point AFTER the foundation is laid] if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work


But unfortunately just like with Israel, so it is with God's people today (eccl 1:9).

They - on their own - keep turning back to Egypt/Sin. They keep their slave mentality instead of understanding they're free. Then they complain about all the walking they must do (a work required of them to reach their promise). And they complain about all the picking they must do (a work required of them to reach their promise). And they ignore when they are not to do any work out of obedience (a rest required of them to reach their promise). Finally, when they reach the gateway to their promise, these same stiff-necked people refused to cross over and fight for their promise (another work required of them)...and all because it seemed like it was "too hard for them to do". They kept believing they had to do it alone even though they had witnesses *constantly* telling them that God was with them to help them succeed. And so with this sin of unbelief, they all died walking around in circles for the rest of their lives; never even understanding the daily bread they were actually eating every week ("man'na" is Hebrew for "what is it?").

Let me say it again; all God's people who were once saved from death & their slavery...by the blood of the lamb....continued to disobey and so continued to died, never experiencing the promise God had for them. God does not change.

Hebrews 3:11
So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.

---

This thread's topic is not about Salvation, nor is our walk about salvation. We been there, and (glory to God, we testify that He's) done that (for us).

Now *we* have work to do.

Now we must obey for our promise of eternal life.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#66
Yahshua, it is good to see your post and I pray that you will return to your thread, " the book of Romans" and help me to carry it follow. meanwhile, I enjoyed your good post here and say we are in much agreement, except for some specific statements which you make, that are unclear as to what you mean, I hope to help you be clearer in your statements. please allow me, your senior of many yrs., to help you. I have walked with Christ 53 yrs. You say, "salvation is not eternal life" ,I agree but disagree. LOL, REALLY! seriously. WE all know, all of the Israelites who left, Egypt.saved, were NOT SAVED,spiritually. AGREE? The passover did not SAVE them, it only PROVIDED salvation for those who would, REPENT, TRUST, and OBEY G OD.! The passover did cover them from God's wrath, temporally but not spiritually. AGREE? Canaan land was the picture of eternal life, agree. BuT, EtERNAL life begins the moment we are born-again. AGREE? BUT, after the new birth ,by GOd's power and love ,we must REPENT,TRUST and OBEY to be saved. AGREE? Love to you, Hoffco
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#67
To Peacefulbeliever, You have a good heart but your mind is needing more renewing in the truth of the word of God. What I said to Yahshua is good for you to study. Don't follow the majority of Bible teachers of to day, they are teaching a damnable heresy of "faith only". Love to you in Christ,Pastor Douig , Hoffco
 
Oct 24, 2014
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#68
I enjoyed learning all about the law and it's shadow/type hidden mysteries. I especially like the seventh day part, preparing us for this Day of the Lord of Christ that came 2000 years ago. I love the Sabbath true meaning. I keep the Sabbath 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Actually it is the "Eight day" but who here knows the depths of that cool study :) I understood the type in the seventh day under the old ordinance. But that was nothing compared that I now understand and live the Sabbath rest in this eternal great and notable day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord is Eternal. This is the revealed true meaning of what the type was all about. Resting in Christ, at rest in the land in salvation and eternal life. A study of that old law can reveal wonderful little kernels that find their full revealing and application in the Spirit of Christ and His Body. Now that I have Jesus, the old law is like an old wineskin to be tossed as Jesus said, but it was sure worth it's while until I received Him of whom it foretold us to prepare for :)
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#69
Not sure about the eight day but spot on as Jesus is the Sabbath.
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#70
I enjoyed learning all about the law and it's shadow/type hidden mysteries. I especially like the seventh day part, preparing us for this Day of the Lord of Christ that came 2000 years ago. I love the Sabbath true meaning. I keep the Sabbath 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Actually it is the "Eight day" but who here knows the depths of that cool study :) I understood the type in the seventh day under the old ordinance. But that was nothing compared that I now understand and live the Sabbath rest in this eternal great and notable day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord is Eternal. This is the revealed true meaning of what the type was all about. Resting in Christ, at rest in the land in salvation and eternal life. A study of that old law can reveal wonderful little kernels that find their full revealing and application in the Spirit of Christ and His Body. Now that I have Jesus, the old law is like an old wineskin to be tossed as Jesus said, but it was sure worth it's while until I received Him of whom it foretold us to prepare for :)

Which tribe did God give understanding of times ? Why
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#71
Sorry, Brad, You have really twisted the Word of God because of you narrow minded bigotry, of "faith alone", and no law what so ever. Love to all, Hoffco
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#72
To Peacefulbeliever, You have a good heart but your mind is needing more renewing in the truth of the word of God. What I said to Yahshua is good for you to study. Don't follow the majority of Bible teachers of to day, they are teaching a damnable heresy of "faith only". Love to you in Christ,Pastor Douig , Hoffco
James 2:17-19
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

To all who read this. If these 3 scriptures seem to contradict one another according to your understanding, you have the entire concept incorrect in your understanding. They are both true.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

The hearing of faith is the key for understanding.

Hearing=189. akoe ak-o-ay' from 191; hearing (the act, the sense or the thing heard):--audience, ear, fame, which ye heard, hearing, preached, report, rumor.

If you are taught differently than the truth that we shall live by EVERY WORD that has proceeded out of the mouth of God, you will never be able to hear faith in its true form. Confusion is not of God, it is of the adversary. I'm not saying that a person is confused because they don't know it all either.
 
Feb 21, 2012
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#73
Peacefulbeliever, here's what you and many others (including the OP, BradC) are misunderstanding...the topic of this thread is "eternal life", not "salvation". Not once was I talking about law-keeping for salvation.

Salvation =/= Eternal Life...else we *all* - who've confessed Christ - would no longer die. But we still do for now.

Salvation is not Eternal Life, no more than Israel's Passover Lamb in Egypt was their Promised Land.

The original premise of this thread is "The Law *only* is not good enough to inherit eternal life" (Christ's words in Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18-19, and Luke 18:18-20), which is a true statement. But then an error is made in the OP's conclusion because he, like many - in misunderstanding the difference between salvation and eternal life - change the topic of this thread and begin discussing whether or not the law brings salvation (and let me state for the record that it does not, and never could).


Again Salvation does not equal Eternal Life.
Does one only gain eternal life because one is saved? Therefore salvation would equal eternal life because one who is not saved will not gain eternal life. Yes, Matt. 19:17 is a true statement addressed to Israel - and the whole premise of the Mosaic Covenant - you will enter eternal life IF you obey my commandments; you will receive blessings IF you obey; you will receive cursing IF you don't obey. The foundation of my salvation is based upon IF I shall believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
What happened to ancient Israel is our example for a reason (1 Cor 10:11); it's so we don't do what we're doing now, which is seriously misunderstanding Paul's words. If we do not understand what ancient Israel went through and why, thoroughly, we haven't a clue what the true gospel is. Note the order of events:

Israel was *saved* by the mercy of God through blood of the lamb...which was not of their own merit or work. It *saved* them from (a) death and (b) slavery to Egypt. But AFTER they were saved they could not remain in Egypt. They had to - themselves - walk out of Egypt (a work)...first they received the tablets of the testimony (God's Commandments on the outside) and then they had to walk towards their promise (Canaan), obeying God's Commandments along the way (a work).

Notice: Their Salvation was the starting point...it was now behind them. They were now required to move on from it, walking towards their promise (their work to do).

---

Likewise we are *saved* by the mercy of God through the blood of Christ...which was not of our own merit or work. He *saved* us from (a) death and (b) slavery to Sin. But AFTER we were saved we can not remain in Sin. We have to - ourselves - walk out of Sin (a work)...first we receive the Holy Spirit (God's Commandments on the inside) and then we have to walk towards our promise (the "house" prepared for us; the new body; Eternal Life), obeying God's Commandments along the way (a work).

Notice: Our Salvation was the starting point...it is now (or should be) behind us. We are now required to move on from it, working towards our promise (our work to do).
Yes, the OT scriptures are written for examples unto us - [Rom. 15:4] NOTE: Their righteousness was dependent upon keeping the commandments - Deut. 6:25; They had the law - IF you do good everything will be good for you - a "check list mentality" - they had to keep this "check list" in order to have a relationship with God. (Some still look at the "check list" to gain approval). We don't have to consider what to do to "maintain" righteousness - we live indwelt by the holy Spirit -His "Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God" [Rom. 8:16]
Our salvation is dependent upon confessing Jesus as Lord and believing God raised him from the dead. [Rom. 10:9,10] That seed that is born within us is incorruptible . . .
Did I not say - "Let
me speak plainly - NO ONE is saying that we shouldn't obey, i.e. walk by the Spirit. But that salvation is a gift of grace through faith in Jesus Christ. We do not WORK for our salvation nor is there anything we can do to be good in and of ourselves. It takes the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and that comes from being born again and that can not and is not achieved through WORKS."
Hebrew 6:1
Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ [i.e. that he died for our sins] and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death (i.e. SINS), and of faith in God,

1 Corinthians 3:11-13
11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now [i.e. at this point AFTER the foundation is laid] if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work


But unfortunately just like with Israel, so it is with God's people today (eccl 1:9).
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Let me reiterate -"Let me speak plainly - NO ONE is saying that we shouldn't obey, i.e. walk by the Spirit. But that salvation is a gift of grace through faith in Jesus Christ. We do not WORK for our salvation nor is there anything we can do to be good in and of ourselves. It takes the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and that comes from being born again and that can not and is not achieved through WORKS."
They - on their own - keep turning back to Egypt/Sin. They keep their slave mentality instead of understanding they're free. Then they complain about all the walking they must do (a work required of them to reach their promise). And they complain about all the picking they must do (a work required of them to reach their promise). And they ignore when they are not to do any work out of obedience (a rest required of them to reach their promise). Finally, when they reach the gateway to their promise, these same stiff-necked people refused to cross over and fight for their promise (another work required of them)...and all because it seemed like it was "too hard for them to do". They kept believing they had to do it alone even though they had witnesses *constantly* telling them that God was with them to help them succeed. And so with this sin of unbelief, they all died walking around in circles for the rest of their lives; never even understanding the daily bread they were actually eating every week ("man'na" is Hebrew for "what is it?").
And also they did not have the indwelling of the holy Spirit to strengthen them.
Let me say it again; all God's people who were once saved from death & their slavery...by the blood of the lamb....continued to disobey and so continued to died, never experiencing the promise God had for them. God does not change.

Hebrews 3:11
So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.

---

This thread's topic is not about Salvation, nor is our walk about salvation. We been there, and (glory to God, we testify that He's) done that (for us).
God's character does not change but God's relationship and dealings with man have changed throughout history.
Now *we* have work to do.

Now we must obey for our promise of eternal life.[/QUOTE]
So - it seems that John 3:16 is not sufficient for eternal life? You see I am already seated in heavenly places in Christ, I am sealed with the holy Spirit of promise until the day of redemption when my Jesus Christ my Lord will come again for his purchased possession - that is the basis of the new covenant. But for my maturity and growth - I will endeavor to walk by the Spirit and NOT fulfill the lust of the flesh.
 
Feb 21, 2012
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#74
To Peacefulbeliever, You have a good heart <snip>
Love to you in Christ,Pastor Douig , Hoffco
Thank you Hoffco.

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. James 2:10


 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#75
To just-me, we need to understand Paul in Romans 10:17 in light of all Paul has said in ch.2 and what he says in 10:18-21: Where Paul "jokes" about, or "ridicules" his statement of " faith comes by hearing the Word of God." Paul is saying ,don't take me in the absolute sense, folks; I am making a General statement that is NOT absolutely true, all the time. WOW, I mean, just look at Israel, they DID NOT believe GOD! But LOOK, how GOD keep telling then HIS word, and they refused to believe, SO, hearing the WORD of GOD was NOT enough to give them faith. FAITH is the GIFT of GOD given to only HIS elect ones. Most Israel was NOT elect to receive FAITH. Rom.9 & 11. The "elect" were born again and the rest only heard with their ears, not their hearts. Paul said it VERY clearly, but we don't listen, SO, James says it again, VERY positively. " "knowing a man is justified by WORKS and not by FAITH alone." And most of the church , still won't listen to
God.! Faith alone, is ONLY for receiving Jesus and His righteousness by FAITH ALONE, it is not for all of our SALVATION; Salvation is received by REPENTING of SIN, TRUSTING Jesus, AND OBEYING JESUS. LOVE hoffco
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#76
To peacefulbeliever, YES only Jesus kept the law perfectly, Therefore I receieve Jesus alone as my SAVIOR, by faith alone in His perfect work. SO, Therefore I can be save , without keeping the law perfectly; BUT. I will not be saved if I DON"T love and obey God's laws as carefully as I can with God's help. AND with GOD"S help, I can Theoretically ,Keep the law perfectly; BUT , not practically, BeCAUSE, I still have the old sinful heart in me. Please try to say it as GOD teaches us. Love Hoffco
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#77
To just-me, we need to understand Paul in Romans 10:17 in light of all Paul has said in ch.2 and what he says in 10:18-21: Where Paul "jokes" about, or "ridicules" his statement of " faith comes by hearing the Word of God." Paul is saying ,don't take me in the absolute sense, folks; I am making a General statement that is NOT absolutely true, all the time. WOW, I mean, just look at Israel, they DID NOT believe GOD! But LOOK, how GOD keep telling then HIS word, and they refused to believe, SO, hearing the WORD of GOD was NOT enough to give them faith. FAITH is the GIFT of GOD given to only HIS elect ones. Most Israel was NOT elect to receive FAITH. Rom.9 & 11. The "elect" were born again and the rest only heard with their ears, not their hearts. Paul said it VERY clearly, but we don't listen, SO, James says it again, VERY positively. " "knowing a man is justified by WORKS and not by FAITH alone." And most of the church , still won't listen to
God.! Faith alone, is ONLY for receiving Jesus and His righteousness by FAITH ALONE, it is not for all of our SALVATION; Salvation is received by REPENTING of SIN, TRUSTING Jesus, AND OBEYING JESUS. LOVE hoffco
The original post was the hearing of faith and the word. this post The entirety of my post was that a person who is to understand the truth needs both the hearing of the word and the hearing of faith simultaneously. How does one hear faith except through the word? It's the same with following the Spirit of God given to us. Jesus, who is the Word ascended into heaven to give the Comforter. Obviously the word came first. "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

First is the Word, then comes the gift of faith, then we receive the Spirit by the hearing of faith that came through the Word. See, that is easy to understand.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#78
to just-me, thank you for finally saying it right. with out the gift of faith from GOD alone, there is no hearing of the word by faith. NOW, you are saying the WHOLE truth. Except ,you leave our the Election of GOD; only the "elect' have "ears to hear". Love Hoffco
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
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#79
To peacefulbeliever, YES only Jesus kept the law perfectly, Therefore I receieve Jesus alone as my SAVIOR, by faith alone in His perfect work. SO, Therefore I can be save , without keeping the law perfectly; BUT. I will not be saved if I DON"T love and obey God's laws as carefully as I can with God's help. AND with GOD"S help, I can Theoretically ,Keep the law perfectly; BUT , not practically, BeCAUSE, I still have the old sinful heart in me. Please try to say it as GOD teaches us. Love Hoffco
Excellent understanding shown here.