The MOST CONTROVERSIAL STATEMENT MADE
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so God is a respecter of persons ....
Acts 2:38-39King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
does not apply to you?
Acts 2:38-39King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
does not apply to you?
P
elf3 You hit the nail on the head. we believers scream Jesus Jesus Jesus we love you we will follow your example. Well follow his example and teaching on baptism when he stopped dying to save a man that he did not himself baptize. Yet the understanding we can take is that he baptized him in his spirit as he promised him eternal life with him the same day>!! Think on that. Dc you started a great thread.
So that would imply regardless whether or not you are baptized, unless you believe you will not be saved.
Anyone can be immersed in water, continue to sin and reject the truth. Do you think you are holier than thou because you have been baptized and can run wild, do as you please and the Lord will say that's ok..... do as you please now you have been baptized you can do what ever you like and be saved....NO.
Anyone can be immersed in water, continue to sin and reject the truth. Do you think you are holier than thou because you have been baptized and can run wild, do as you please and the Lord will say that's ok..... do as you please now you have been baptized you can do what ever you like and be saved....NO.
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Your comment is one verse taken completely out of context...
1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
The context is contentions based on whom they followed...
1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
Notice what he is saying here? He was dispelling the thought that they should follow a man.
1Co 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Paul did baptize Crispus and Gaius, so he did baptize some. Oh wait, let's read a couple of verses down...
1Co 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Co 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
Here is the crux of the matter. This passage HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER BAPTISM IS NECESSARY OR NOT, it has to do with Paul correcting the church at Corinth for having cliques based on whom they followed.
C'mon DC, you are much more educated in the scriptures than this.
1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
The context is contentions based on whom they followed...
1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
Notice what he is saying here? He was dispelling the thought that they should follow a man.
1Co 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Paul did baptize Crispus and Gaius, so he did baptize some. Oh wait, let's read a couple of verses down...
1Co 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Co 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
Here is the crux of the matter. This passage HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER BAPTISM IS NECESSARY OR NOT, it has to do with Paul correcting the church at Corinth for having cliques based on whom they followed.
C'mon DC, you are much more educated in the scriptures than this.
Just how does water baptism become grace? Scripture teaches that we are saved by grace not by water baptism.
If you want to discuss salvation through baptism then you must discuss the Holy Spirit not water. There is no saving merit attributed to water baptism. Besides the catholic church only baptizes babies who have no say in the matter.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
If you want to discuss salvation through baptism then you must discuss the Holy Spirit not water. There is no saving merit attributed to water baptism. Besides the catholic church only baptizes babies who have no say in the matter.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Water baptism is a tradition handed down to us from our Jewish fathers. It was traditional for a Jew to cover himself in sackcloth and ashes when he mourned and repented of his sins. Afterward he would arise and bathe himself. The bathing was ceremonial and is where the baptisms of today come from. They washed the dirt, ashes, from off the outside of their bodies and went forth clean and with renewed purpose to serve Jehovah.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Do you honestly believe we think water itself is holy? No. It is the prescribed form in which our Lord called for baptism to take place. Through that form is the working of God in the imparting of grace. The water does not give grace, but God gives grace through our obedience to Him.
As for infant baptism, that should be argued in another thread.
As for infant baptism, that should be argued in another thread.
Well, that phrase is a verse taken out of context and is also incomplete. Let's back up one verse. 1 Peter 3:20-21 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Peter referred to the Genesis flood enough to make it clear there is application of that for us. The raging waters overtook the ark, lifting it up and over the people around it. The same flood meant to destroy saved Noah and his family. Though there is no record they got soaked personally, they were carried over the destruction as remarkably as the Hebrews were spared through the first passover later in Exodus. Those Hebrews were not soaked in blood, but blood around their doors was a sign for the death to pass by. That was a baptism of sorts. But the big baptism for the Hebrews was in following Moses out of Egypt. They were baptized into Moses through experiencing the presence of God, in the cloud and the sea.. They were not burned by that fire, nor soaked by the parted sea. Those are biblical baptisms.
God sent John the Baptist ahead of Jesus preaching repentance of sin, preparing His way. Many listened and repented of sin. They were immersed in water as a sign of that obedience. John was careful to distinguish two new baptisms:
1. John's unto repentance.
2. Jesus baptism with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Matthew 3:11 (KJV) [SUP]11 [/SUP] I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Technically John's ministry ended that hour once Jesus was announced the Son of God by the Father's voice from Heaven. Very soon after John was put in prison, then beheaded. But, repentance has always remained essential to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, followed by that spiritual baptism of repentant sinners by Christ. Symbolic water baptism is to Christians a mark in time signifying public testimony of being born again in the Spirit. Noah had his baptism (physical), Moses and the people had their (physical) baptism, John had his ministry of baptism, Jesus submitted to water baptism, and we have ours, both spiritual and the physical sign following.
Note that though Jesus let John baptize Him of the baptism of repentance, John had already declared the baptism of Jesus was greater. It is the one baptism unto salvation, making the baptized born again.
I look at entering the Kingdom of Heaven like a stranger coming to the gate of a king's domain. The guards ask for the password. A hint reveals it. "I will not sin in honor of the king. I will do no harm here, but serve." The guards say "You may enter in, but must be made a citizen by the king". The king anoints the stranger with his sword, making him a knight.
I realize some of you might rightly criticize that analogy, but it helps children and teens understand commitment to not be an evil person. Not knowing how to carry that out, one must trust the King of kings to anoint you to be good. When He does that with His double-edged sword, the Word of God, which grants faith through reading and hearing it, and teaches how to overcome sin.
Matthew 5:8 (KJV) [SUP]8 [/SUP] Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
[HR][/HR] 1 Timothy 1:5 (KJV) [SUP]5 [/SUP] Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
[HR][/HR] 2 Timothy 2:22 (KJV) [SUP]22 [/SUP] Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
A pure heart! Such is the desire of any righteous king to have as citizen. Repent, believe, let Jesus baptize you, seek to show forth your pure heart, then enter into the very presence of God as a child of God with all rights as His heir. We do that while praying alone in our little prayer closet. Do it in secret. Then worship God there, at His throne and take your place at His table for fellowship. When you return home you will be greatly refreshed.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Peter referred to the Genesis flood enough to make it clear there is application of that for us. The raging waters overtook the ark, lifting it up and over the people around it. The same flood meant to destroy saved Noah and his family. Though there is no record they got soaked personally, they were carried over the destruction as remarkably as the Hebrews were spared through the first passover later in Exodus. Those Hebrews were not soaked in blood, but blood around their doors was a sign for the death to pass by. That was a baptism of sorts. But the big baptism for the Hebrews was in following Moses out of Egypt. They were baptized into Moses through experiencing the presence of God, in the cloud and the sea.. They were not burned by that fire, nor soaked by the parted sea. Those are biblical baptisms.
God sent John the Baptist ahead of Jesus preaching repentance of sin, preparing His way. Many listened and repented of sin. They were immersed in water as a sign of that obedience. John was careful to distinguish two new baptisms:
1. John's unto repentance.
2. Jesus baptism with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Matthew 3:11 (KJV) [SUP]11 [/SUP] I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Technically John's ministry ended that hour once Jesus was announced the Son of God by the Father's voice from Heaven. Very soon after John was put in prison, then beheaded. But, repentance has always remained essential to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, followed by that spiritual baptism of repentant sinners by Christ. Symbolic water baptism is to Christians a mark in time signifying public testimony of being born again in the Spirit. Noah had his baptism (physical), Moses and the people had their (physical) baptism, John had his ministry of baptism, Jesus submitted to water baptism, and we have ours, both spiritual and the physical sign following.
Note that though Jesus let John baptize Him of the baptism of repentance, John had already declared the baptism of Jesus was greater. It is the one baptism unto salvation, making the baptized born again.
I look at entering the Kingdom of Heaven like a stranger coming to the gate of a king's domain. The guards ask for the password. A hint reveals it. "I will not sin in honor of the king. I will do no harm here, but serve." The guards say "You may enter in, but must be made a citizen by the king". The king anoints the stranger with his sword, making him a knight.
I realize some of you might rightly criticize that analogy, but it helps children and teens understand commitment to not be an evil person. Not knowing how to carry that out, one must trust the King of kings to anoint you to be good. When He does that with His double-edged sword, the Word of God, which grants faith through reading and hearing it, and teaches how to overcome sin.
Matthew 5:8 (KJV) [SUP]8 [/SUP] Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
[HR][/HR] 1 Timothy 1:5 (KJV) [SUP]5 [/SUP] Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
[HR][/HR] 2 Timothy 2:22 (KJV) [SUP]22 [/SUP] Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
A pure heart! Such is the desire of any righteous king to have as citizen. Repent, believe, let Jesus baptize you, seek to show forth your pure heart, then enter into the very presence of God as a child of God with all rights as His heir. We do that while praying alone in our little prayer closet. Do it in secret. Then worship God there, at His throne and take your place at His table for fellowship. When you return home you will be greatly refreshed.
Have some forgotten one of the basic doctrines?
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Baptism is one of the foundational doctrines.
Let's go directly to the source...
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Christ most explicitly states here that unless one is buried in water and rises from it (baptized) he just will NOT be in the Kingdom of God.
Paul explains what baptism is...
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Baptism pictures (shadows for some of you) the death of the old man and the resurrection of the new. There is more than one level of understanding here.
As far as infant Baptism, I agree, that is for another thread.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Baptism is one of the foundational doctrines.
Let's go directly to the source...
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Christ most explicitly states here that unless one is buried in water and rises from it (baptized) he just will NOT be in the Kingdom of God.
Paul explains what baptism is...
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Baptism pictures (shadows for some of you) the death of the old man and the resurrection of the new. There is more than one level of understanding here.
As far as infant Baptism, I agree, that is for another thread.
I understand the context as stated on the first page of posts...doesn't change the fact that baptism is NOT NECESSARY for biblical salvation......so like I said...keep trusting into your watered down blood.......
Jesus as the EXAMPLE was THE SON OF GOD BY BIRTH...not by water...so keep rejecting this example to teach your pseudo watered down Catholic/Campbellism false gospel and see where you end up......Gospel of a different kind...will take you straight to the pit!
Jesus as the EXAMPLE was THE SON OF GOD BY BIRTH...not by water...so keep rejecting this example to teach your pseudo watered down Catholic/Campbellism false gospel and see where you end up......Gospel of a different kind...will take you straight to the pit!
This too is a false watered down rejection of the truth that being born of water is indicative of being BORN OF THE FLESH...
A man must BE BORN and then BORN of the SPIRIT to enter/perceive/understand the KINGDOM of GOD....wake up and view the whole context instead of blindly following heretical doctrine.....
SHOW ONE EXAMPLE OF A BABY BEING IMMERSED IN SCRIPTURE....! As this too is a doctrine from hell and Satan himself!
A man must BE BORN and then BORN of the SPIRIT to enter/perceive/understand the KINGDOM of GOD....wake up and view the whole context instead of blindly following heretical doctrine.....
SHOW ONE EXAMPLE OF A BABY BEING IMMERSED IN SCRIPTURE....! As this too is a doctrine from hell and Satan himself!
She knows more than you do for sure..at least she has not followed hook, line and sinker a doctrine that will take you to hell....as baptism does not save.......regardless of your 1 or two sets of verses taken out of context.....HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT SHALL BE JUDGED......
ANSWER the QUESTIONS..
1. Is JESUS our EXAMPLE?
2. WAS JESUS the SON OF GOD BY BIRTH of WATER IMMERSION?
FOR EVERY ONE VERSE YOU YANK OUT OF CONTEXT to teach your spewed heresy there are 10-30 that teaches by grace dia faith....Good luck with your pseudo gospel of a different kind which has no power to save and leads straight to the pit.....I hope you drink a bunch of water before you wind up in a liquid deprived place with higher than normal temps!
ANSWER the QUESTIONS..
1. Is JESUS our EXAMPLE?
2. WAS JESUS the SON OF GOD BY BIRTH of WATER IMMERSION?
FOR EVERY ONE VERSE YOU YANK OUT OF CONTEXT to teach your spewed heresy there are 10-30 that teaches by grace dia faith....Good luck with your pseudo gospel of a different kind which has no power to save and leads straight to the pit.....I hope you drink a bunch of water before you wind up in a liquid deprived place with higher than normal temps!