The MOST CONTROVERSIAL STATEMENT MADE

[john832]

She knows more than you do for sure..at least she has not followed hook, line and sinker a doctrine that will take you to hell....as baptism does not save.......regardless of your 1 or two sets of verses taken out of context.....HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT SHALL BE JUDGED......

ANSWER the QUESTIONS..

1. Is JESUS our EXAMPLE?
2. WAS JESUS the SON OF GOD BY BIRTH of WATER IMMERSION?

FOR EVERY ONE VERSE YOU YANK OUT OF CONTEXT to teach your spewed heresy there are 10-30 that teaches by grace dia faith....Good luck with your pseudo gospel of a different kind which has no power to save and leads straight to the pit.....I hope you drink a bunch of water before you wind up in a liquid deprived place with higher than normal temps!

OK,

#1 Is JESUS our EXAMPLE?

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Mat 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

#2 WAS JESUS the SON OF GOD BY BIRTH of WATER IMMERSION?

Neither...

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

He was not made the Son of God, He IS the Son of God.

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

captain:

G747
ἀρχηγός
archēgos
ar-khay-gos'
From G746 and G71; a chief leader: - author, captain, prince.

 

[dcontroversal]

elf3 You hit the nail on the head. we believers scream Jesus Jesus Jesus we love you we will follow your example. Well follow his example and teaching on baptism when he stopped dying to save a man that he did not himself baptize. Yet the understanding we can take is that he baptized him in his spirit as he promised him eternal life with him the same day>!! Think on that. Dc you started a great thread.

It amazes me how the deceivers will reject, deny, spiritualize away the obvious truth so as to swallow a pure satanic doctrine....

1. Jesus was the SON OF GOD BY BIRTH
2. The thief on the cross
3. John the Baptist
4. Rahab

Here we have four examples of NO BAPTISM required for being a son or a daughter. See they cannot receive the truth because it will prove that their belief is heretical....so they will spiritualize away the truth so as to ease their conscience.

 

[dcontroversal]

OK,

#1 Is JESUS our EXAMPLE?

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Mat 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

#2 WAS JESUS the SON OF GOD BY BIRTH of WATER IMMERSION?

Neither...

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

He was not made the Son of God, He IS the Son of God.

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

captain:

G747
ἀρχηγός
archēgos
ar-khay-gos'
From G746 and G71; a chief leader: - author, captain, prince.

I suggest you dig a little deeper....

Mary<---overshadowed by the HOLY SPIRIT---->GIVES BIRTH TO JESUS.....so are you saying he was not the SON of GOD BY BIRTH from the HOLY SPIRIT?

That which shall be BORN unto thee SHALL BE CALLED THE SON OF THE HIGHEST......

 

[ThomistColin]

ANSWER the QUESTIONS..

1. Is JESUS our EXAMPLE?
2. WAS JESUS the SON OF GOD BY BIRTH of WATER IMMERSION?

1. Jesus is far more than our example, He is our King and God.
2. Jesus was not born with a sinful nature nor with a sinful flesh. So, that's hardly a good response.

 

[ThomistColin]

Also, why are you bringing up Christ's ancestor, Rahab? She predates the coming of Christ.

 

[dcontroversal]

So that would imply regardless whether or not you are baptized, unless you believe you will not be saved.

Anyone can be immersed in water, continue to sin and reject the truth. Do you think you are holier than thou because you have been baptized and can run wild, do as you please and the Lord will say that's ok..... do as you please now you have been baptized you can do what ever you like and be saved....NO.

His problem is that he has not been born of the Spirit yet and therefore cannot understand the word of God as the word of God cannot be understood unless one is born of the SPIRIT....so...trusting into water over the blood is a gospel of a different kind as water immersion is a work of righteousness and the bible clearly teaches that WORKS DO NOT SAVE.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Also, why are you bringing up Christ's ancestor, Rahab? She predates the coming of Christ.

Maybe if you studied the bible you would realize that she makes the BIBLE and the HOUSEHOLD OF FAITH without IMMERSION!

HEBREWS 11

 

[john832]

I suggest you dig a little deeper....

Mary<---overshadowed by the HOLY SPIRIT---->GIVES BIRTH TO JESUS.....so are you saying he was not the SON of GOD BY BIRTH from the HOLY SPIRIT?

That which shall be BORN unto thee SHALL BE CALLED THE SON OF THE HIGHEST......

Do you think that He began with the impregnation of Mary? Don't you think that He PLANNED His own birth ahead of time?

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

His life is a continuation from eternity to eternity.

 

[dcontroversal]

1. Jesus is far more than our example, He is our King and God.
2. Jesus was not born with a sinful nature nor with a sinful flesh. So, that's hardly a good response.

Well that is because you believe in water and don't understand that JESUS was BORN THE SON of GOD by BIRTH after MARY was overshadowed by the HOLY SPIRIT and that which shall be BORN UNTO THEE shall be called the SON of the HIGHEST.....

 

[dcontroversal]

I absolutely DO NOT believe in nor do I endorse infant baptism, I just made the statement that it is a topic for another thread.

My bad.....and I agree that infant baptism is a farce as well......!

 

[notuptome]

Do you honestly believe we think water itself is holy? No. It is the prescribed form in which our Lord called for baptism to take place. Through that form is the working of God in the imparting of grace. The water does not give grace, but God gives grace through our obedience to Him.

As for infant baptism, that should be argued in another thread.

Every Roman Catholic church I have ever been in has had holy water at the entrance. I know it's not really holy but its there and the priest always has some to sprinkle around in his ceremonial performance.

Scripture says that grace is received through faith and faith created by hearing the word of God not through water baptism. Eph 2:8-9. Show me scripture where grace is imparted by water baptism.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[dcontroversal]

The following verses teach biblical salvation without baptism being attached.....if baptism is so connected then why is it left out.....

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME

John 3:16....That WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH ON HIM SHOULD NO PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE

John 3:36 HE THAT BELIEVETH ON THE SON HATH EVER LASTING LIFE

John 6:29 This is the WORK of GOD, that ye BELIEVE on HIM WHOM HE HATH SENT

John 9:35-38 Dude healed and BELIEVED and WORSHIPPED

Romans 3:23 EVEN the righteousness of God which is by the FAITH of JESUS CHRIST unto ALL and UPON ALL them that BELIEVE..

Romans 10:9 THAT IF THOU SHALT CONFESS WITH THY MOUTH AND BELIEVE IN THY HEART THAT GOD HS RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD, THOU SHALT BE SAVED

1 Corinthians 1:21 ....it pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE

Luke 7:50 THY FAITH HATH SAVED THEE.......

Luke 18:42 .....THY faith hath SAVED THEE....

Ephesians 2:8-10 SAVED BY GRACE OUT OF FAITH..

1st Corinthians 1:17..FOR CHRIST SENT ME NOT TO BAPTIZE, BUT TO PREACH THE GOSPEL

OVER and OVER salvation is tied directly to FAITH, BELIEF WITHOUT BAPTISM being TIED to it.....

BAPTISM does not save, does not add to salvation and is a picture of what has taken place inwardly by faith!

NOTE.....the verses picked are just the tip of the spear.....faith, grace scriptures out weigh baptism scriptures like 30 to one and the few used to support baptism are taken out of context as it CANNOT be BOTH.....JESUS said if you believe, John said if you believe, Paul taught if you believe period!

 

[ThomistColin]

Every Roman Catholic church I have ever been in has had holy water at the entrance. I know it's not really holy but its there and the priest always has some to sprinkle around in his ceremonial performance.

Scripture says that grace is received through faith and faith created by hearing the word of God not through water baptism. Eph 2:8-9. Show me scripture where grace is imparted by water baptism.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Again, you see what you think we believe. That water is not holy because it is water. It is not holy because the priest does the sign of the cross over it. It is not holy because the Paschal candle is dipped three times into it. It is considered holy because of God's gifting grace. And again, it is not the water, for if it was the water, then the blessing would only last as long as the water remained wet. However, because it is God's gifting spirit of grace, it is due to faith in Christ and God's eternal will.

 

[ThomistColin]

The following verses teach biblical salvation without baptism being attached.....if baptism is so connected then why is it left out.....

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME

John 3:16....That WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH ON HIM SHOULD NO PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE

John 3:36 HE THAT BELIEVETH ON THE SON HATH EVER LASTING LIFE

John 6:29 This is the WORK of GOD, that ye BELIEVE on HIM WHOM HE HATH SENT

John 9:35-38 Dude healed and BELIEVED and WORSHIPPED

Romans 3:23 EVEN the righteousness of God which is by the FAITH of JESUS CHRIST unto ALL and UPON ALL them that BELIEVE..

Romans 10:9 THAT IF THOU SHALT CONFESS WITH THY MOUTH AND BELIEVE IN THY HEART THAT GOD HS RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD, THOU SHALT BE SAVED

1 Corinthians 1:21 ....it pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE

Luke 7:50 THY FAITH HATH SAVED THEE.......

Luke 18:42 .....THY faith hath SAVED THEE....

Ephesians 2:8-10 SAVED BY GRACE OUT OF FAITH..

1st Corinthians 1:17..FOR CHRIST SENT ME NOT TO BAPTIZE, BUT TO PREACH THE GOSPEL

OVER and OVER salvation is tied directly to FAITH, BELIEF WITHOUT BAPTISM being TIED to it.....

BAPTISM does not save, does not add to salvation and is a picture of what has taken place inwardly by faith!

NOTE.....the verses picked are just the tip of the spear.....faith, grace scriptures out weigh baptism scriptures like 30 to one and the few used to support baptism are taken out of context as it CANNOT be BOTH.....JESUS said if you believe, John said if you believe, Paul taught if you believe period!

That still ignores Peter's statement. Peter declared that baptism now saves us. It is not the washing of dirt or ashes, but the prescribed form in which through obedience God gives His grace upon us.

 

[dcontroversal]

Do you think that He began with the impregnation of Mary? Don't you think that He PLANNED His own birth ahead of time?

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

His life is a continuation from eternity to eternity.

He also disrobed himself of the glory that he had with the Father before the casting down of the world....ARGUE the language of LUKE...as the angel GABRIEL announced HIS BIRTH and being called THE SON of the HIGHEST based upon HIS BIRTH and is the example of what MAN can BE after being BORN of the SPIRIT.

 

[JesusIsAll]

The following verses teach biblical salvation without baptism being attached.....if baptism is so connected then why is it left out.....

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME...

And this is a very important point, as some other issues that cause endless debate. People putting forth a doctrine, in this case that there's some spiritual hoodoo imparted by water, the fact John's baptism is not explicit in salvation scripture destroys the argument. Obviously, I suppose about everywhere salvation doctrine is mentioned would include a warning about essential water baptism, were this the case: God is not the author of confusion or misleading.

Being "born again" involves the baptism of Jesus Christ, the baptism by God in the Holy Spirit. Man adds his errant doctrines and is the source of all confusion, mainly to himself, those that hold to unBiblical doctrines of men.

1 Corinthians 2:1-5 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

 

[dcontroversal]

That still ignores Peter's statement. Peter declared that baptism now saves us. It is not the washing of dirt or ashes, but the prescribed form in which through obedience God gives His grace upon us.

PETER also compared it to the flood.....WHICH saved NOAH and family...

1. The ark covered with PITCH inside and out<--indicative of the blood
2. The water which KILLED everyone outside the ARK

SAVED=diasozo=to preserve, to rescue, to bring safe, to escape<--Peter's usage

WORD APPLIED TO SOUL SALVATION IS
Saved=sozo=to be safe, to save, to deliver, to heal, to preserve, make whole<--John 3:17, 5:34, Romans 5:9,10, Ephesians 2:5, 1st Timothy 2:4 and all other scriptures tied to soul salvation....

The word saved does not always mean soul salvation and I suggest you start studying the words and come to a better understanding before you leave this world believing a gospel that is a different kind with no power to save! And as a matter of fact the word Peter used is only translated that 1 time....maybe because the Episcopalians believe in BAPTISM for salvation!

 

[john832]

My bad.....and I agree that infant baptism is a farce as well......!

Not bad, we know where you and I both stand now. A good thing.

 

[john832]

I do not believe that baptism saves, I believe it is a necessary condition. Even Israel was baptized...

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

They were baptized in type, yet they were baptized. It is a necessary condition.

 

[newbirth]

I understand the context as stated on the first page of posts...doesn't change the fact that baptism is NOT NECESSARY for biblical salvation......so like I said...keep trusting into your watered down blood.......

Jesus as the EXAMPLE was THE SON OF GOD BY BIRTH...not by water...so keep rejecting this example to teach your pseudo watered down Catholic/Campbellism false gospel and see where you end up......Gospel of a different kind...will take you straight to the pit!

you claim to understand....Why did Paul ask? ...were you baptised in the name of Paul?...it is because they were baptised in the name of Jesus Christ...as all believers should...does this scripture apply to you?

Acts 2:38-39King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.