The worlds wisdom or Gods wisdom??

[JennaLeanne]

So I had a little debate kinda thing going on yesterday with a brother (I hate debates by the way)

We were discussing fast food.. I said I didn't like it, He said he did..

My argument was that we should use wisdom in what we put in our bodies.. God wants us to be healthy and look after our bodies..

His was that we should bless our food then anything was safe to eat... (Mark 7:19)

I kinda disagreed with the way this was being used as more of an excuse to fill yaself full of rubbish, and thought it was taken out of context slightly.. Mcdonalds or KFC were not around when this scripture was written, Most things then would of been healthy anyway... Not processed like it is today.

My friend asked if what I was saying was mans wisdom or Gods... He said he eats what he eats and then trusts God to look after his body. I strongly disagreed with that.

I woke up this morning though and though about some stuff... There is a lot of areas in my life still that I know I haven't fully surrendered to the Lord.. Self preservation is an ugly thing, I know I still try and preserve myself a lot.. I fail miserably. So this has made me think a little...

Be great to hear back from what u all think. I don't want to come across like my argument is valid and his isn't.. I want to grow and learn so everything i say is with humility.. Correct me if u see fit.

 

[FreeNChrist]

There is an obsession with "self preservation" in the world. Kind of a denial of our mortality. But there is the case to be made that the choices we make don't only effect ourselves, we can make ourselves a burden on others.

Unfortunately, what is considered "healthy" changes with the wind. I simply live by "moderation in all things", and so far it has worked for me.

 

[JennaLeanne]

There is an obsession with "self preservation" in the world. Kind of a denial of our mortality. But there is the case to be made that the choices we make don't only effect ourselves, we can make ourselves a burden on others.

Unfortunately, what is considered "healthy" changes with the wind. I simply live by "moderation in all things", and so far it has worked for me.

I still fight with myself a whole lot.. I kinda had no boundaries with anything so developed this kinda all or nothing lifestyle if ya know what I mean ? so for me I either over indulge of have to stay well away. I know this is wrong but its how I cope. Prayer please haha xx

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

There's a difference between biblical uncleanness of food and poison. I don't think your friend understands the difference. You could turn the tables on him by telling him that he is tempting the lord by willfully ingesting poison.

 

[Grace777x70]

I think in cases like this we need to rely on what the Holy Spirit is saying to us individually.

I heard of a guy once say that he tried to lose weight by different diets and nothing worked. The Lord told him to eat a certain way and he lost weight like crazy. I don't think we can impose on others what the Lord has told us to do individually.

And there may come a day when the Lord says.."ok, let's change how we eat ..." Our bodies are His temple and He will guide us in all things.

In grey areas like this I always revert back to this scripture.

Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

 

[JennaLeanne]

There's a difference between biblical uncleanness of food and poison. I don't think your friend understands the difference. You could turn the tables on him by telling him that he is tempting the lord by willfully ingesting poison.

Haha I love you my bro... I just approach things a little differently than you do maybe xxx

 

[JennaLeanne]

I think in cases like this we need to rely on what the Holy Spirit is saying to us individually.

I heard of a guy once say that he tried to lose weight by different diets and nothing worked. The Lord told him to eat a certain way and he lost weight like crazy. I don't think we can impose on others what the Lord has told us to do individually.

And there may come a day when the Lord says.."ok, let's change how we eat ..." Our bodies are His temple and He will guide us in all things.

In grey areas like this I always revert back to this scripture.

Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

Yes Amen. I knew I would get a great reply from you my brother. your such a blessing... Can I ask if you eat fast food ? And what your personal opinion is on it xxx

 

[Depleted]

Honestly? My thoughts on food are as biblical as I can get them and don't match yours or his.

God did give a list of clean vs. unclean to Moses. That list was in effect for over a millennium and God doesn't do arbitrary. He has perfect reasons for everything he does.

Then God told Peter the list no longer matters and that's been in effect for close to 2000 years. He has perfect reasons for that too.

I've been taught that clean vs. unclean list has something to do with no refrigeration back then so the food spoils quickly. That really does strike me as a valid reason, except for one obvious flaw. They didn't have refrigeration until a little over a century ago, so why didn't the list get changed then, instead?

I've got no clue about how God chose the clean from unclean or why he took it away other than a vague feeling it had something to do with Gentiles could become his kids now. I do know locust is a clean food and NOT. EVEN. EVER!!! (And I've tried fishhead stew, so don't gag easily over food. lol) So, I think it's safe to talk about food all we want. To eat what we choose to eat.

But let's try to cut down thinking only we have godly wisdom, and we have no worldly wisdom stuck in us too. If we would all stop thinking, "I'm the only one who knows God's truth," this forum could become a place of thinking and learning. Not just learning, "I'm right," considering that's one of the chief things we should be unlearning. Learning what others think in hopes it gets to the point of clarifying what God really does want us to spend our time thinking about.

Truth be known, I ran out of steam again last night, so opted with ordering in for dinner, instead of making it. Is a turkey club clean or unclean? Are French fries clean or unclean? How about cole slaw? Is a diet decaf Pepsi clean or unclean? And, since I'm gentile, not jewish, why should I care? Even raspberries never made the list for clean or unclean, so I honestly think we're supposed to be more worried about things like trusting God.

And I say that knowing I'm clawing my way up to the surface of the water again having spent too much time freaking out over something I have no control over anyway, so I have to relearn "trust God" in another area of my life that I really thought I got down pretty good years ago.

 

[Grace777x70]

Yes Amen. I knew I would get a great reply from you my brother. your such a blessing... Can I ask if you eat fast food ? And what your personal opinion is on it xxx

I personally think it is complete junk. I very rarely eat fast food. But I may it eat once in a blue moon. I'm not obsessive with NOT eating it as if I'm going to ruin my life forever and a day.

I'm not legalistic over it either if other people do eat it. I do try to tell people about eating healthy food though when the opportunity is there.

I wouldn't try to condemn them either by saying they are willfully tempting God if they do eat it. They have the Holy Spirit in them just like I do. I trust Him with their lives and that He can speak to them about what they are to do.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I still fight with myself a whole lot.. I kinda had no boundaries with anything so developed this kinda all or nothing lifestyle if ya know what I mean ? so for me I either over indulge of have to stay well away. I know this is wrong but its how I cope. Prayer please haha xx

I think that's what happens when we try to totally deny ourselves those things we really like. It may work for a while, but then we "fall off the wagon" so to speak, feel a failure, and so just eat like the failure we see ourselves as. If that makes any sense.

 

[JennaLeanne]

Honestly? My thoughts on food are as biblical as I can get them and don't match yours or his.

God did give a list of clean vs. unclean to Moses. That list was in effect for over a millennium and God doesn't do arbitrary. He has perfect reasons for everything he does.

Then God told Peter the list no longer matters and that's been in effect for close to 2000 years. He has perfect reasons for that too.

I've been taught that clean vs. unclean list has something to do with no refrigeration back then so the food spoils quickly. That really does strike me as a valid reason, except for one obvious flaw. They didn't have refrigeration until a little over a century ago, so why didn't the list get changed then, instead?

I've got no clue about how God chose the clean from unclean or why he took it away other than a vague feeling it had something to do with Gentiles could become his kids now. I do know locust is a clean food and NOT. EVEN. EVER!!! (And I've tried fishhead stew, so don't gag easily over food. lol) So, I think it's safe to talk about food all we want. To eat what we choose to eat.

But let's try to cut down thinking only we have godly wisdom, and we have no worldly wisdom stuck in us too. If we would all stop thinking, "I'm the only one who knows God's truth," this forum could become a place of thinking and learning. Not just learning, "I'm right," considering that's one of the chief things we should be unlearning. Learning what others think in hopes it gets to the point of clarifying what God really does want us to spend our time thinking about.

Truth be known, I ran out of steam again last night, so opted with ordering in for dinner, instead of making it. Is a turkey club clean or unclean? Are French fries clean or unclean? How about cole slaw? Is a diet decaf Pepsi clean or unclean? And, since I'm gentile, not jewish, why should I care? Even raspberries never made the list for clean or unclean, so I honestly think we're supposed to be more worried about things like trusting God.

And I say that knowing I'm clawing my way up to the surface of the water again having spent too much time freaking out over something I have no control over anyway, so I have to relearn "trust God" in another area of my life that I really thought I got down pretty good years ago.

Hey depleted, Thanks for your input.. I agree also that I have no control over it.. I know a lot would disagree with that but I kinda have to draw from Gods grace for every area of my life.. food has always been a huge issue for me.. id pig out and then starve pig out and then starve... Going round and round.

As a personal opinion though for myself I try and look at the nutrition content, like I don't really drink a lot of fizzy drinks, Soda I think u call it haha, To me they have no nutritional content, like that's why I choose not to eat fast food... Chemicals, salt, sugar etc... So my argument was just that... If we were to pick out every ingredient in a McDonalds hamburger and see the effects it really has on our insides would we still eat it ?? xx

 

[JennaLeanne]

I personally think it is complete junk. I very rarely eat fast food. But I may it eat once in a blue moon. I'm not obsessive with NOT eating it as if I'm going to ruin my life forever and a day.

I'm not legalistic over it either if other people do eat it. I do try to tell people about eating healthy food though when the opportunity is there.

I wouldn't try to condemn them either by saying they are willfully tempting God if they do eat it. They have the Holy Spirit in them just like I do. I trust Him with their lives and that He can speak to them about what they are to do.

Yeah that's so true... im not trying to push what I think.. we are all at different stages with the Lord, I do see things as very black and white though which is why I kinda have to just say no... Grey areas a so hard for me to get my head around. I would have to see a mcdonalds and a coke as very unhealthy therefor why would I eat it.. To me the way my mind works (where im at today) I would hate the thought of it being a grey area haha... Crazy I am !! xx

 

[Grace777x70]

Yeah that's so true... im not trying to push what I think.. we are all at different stages with the Lord, I do see things as very black and white though which is why I kinda have to just say no... Grey areas a so hard for me to get my head around. I would have to see a mcdonalds and a coke as very unhealthy therefor why would I eat it.. To me the way my mind works (where im at today) I would hate the thought of it being a grey area haha... Crazy I am !! xx

The Lord loves you for your uniqueness! There is no one like you and the Lord treasures you and your craziness.

Here is another scripture that has been a blessing to me in these areas , well for all things in my life now that I really think about it..lol

Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

 

[JennaLeanne]

The Lord loves you for your uniqueness! There is no one like you and the Lord treasures you and your craziness.

Here is another scripture that has been a blessing to me in these areas , well for all things in my life now that I really think about it..lol

Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

Amen. Thankyou my brother xxxx

 

[Depleted]

Hey depleted, Thanks for your input.. I agree also that I have no control over it.. I know a lot would disagree with that but I kinda have to draw from Gods grace for every area of my life.. food has always been a huge issue for me.. id pig out and then starve pig out and then starve... Going round and round.

As a personal opinion though for myself I try and look at the nutrition content, like I don't really drink a lot of fizzy drinks, Soda I think u call it haha, To me they have no nutritional content, like that's why I choose not to eat fast food... Chemicals, salt, sugar etc... So my argument was just that... If we were to pick out every ingredient in a McDonalds hamburger and see the effects it really has on our insides would we still eat it ?? xx

I'm so sorry McDonald's went worldwide. I actually feel like I owe the world an apology because my patronage contributed to it's success. lol (Worse part is I stopped going to it in the 1970's.) Not one of America's better inventions. And yet, memory tells me it was delicious.

But if you go for nutritional content, is water out too? I drink because I'm thirsty. I drink fizzies... well? Not because they're fizzy, although there is a can emptied in my sink because it didn't fizz, so there is something to the fizz issue. I drink them because I like the taste, and don't like the taste of most water.

I'm still addictive personality, do I'm the all or nothing variety too. I find something I like and stick with it. I eat, on occasion, to put something in me that's good for me. (Thus I ate the coleslaw, because it has fiber, not because I like it. And I got a club sandwich because that means they put tomatoes and lettuce -- which are good for me -- in with the deli meat that I can't even swear really is meat and the bacon. Bacon does me in, if I eat too much, and addictive personality, so everything I do is prone toward "too much" so I negotiate a club sandwich once a month just for a strip of bacon.) The rest of the time I eat because I have a particular taste in mind and pop that into my mouth for the taste.

If I had no other responsibilities, or no other purpose in life, I'd eat and drink about five different foods with absolutely no nutritional value to them and go about my life.

I've learned there were people who lived their whole lives eating potatoes. They couldn't afford anything else, so that's what they ate. The article didn't say how long they lived, but generations did that, so at least I know they lived long enough to raise their kids. I now know someone can live half a year on nothing but beer and junk food. (Dad did.)

I'm not hung up on food in such a way that I think it's a godly principle. The only reason I eat right is because God has set responsibilities on me, and since he did it, he has to keep me strong enough to do them. I'm doing my part -- lettuce, tomatoes, cabbage, along with the junk food. Oh, and the knowledge that for the next couple of weeks, at least, I have to make well rounded meals for myself.

 

[Mitspa]

So I had a little debate kinda thing going on yesterday with a brother (I hate debates by the way)

We were discussing fast food.. I said I didn't like it, He said he did..

My argument was that we should use wisdom in what we put in our bodies.. God wants us to be healthy and look after our bodies..

His was that we should bless our food then anything was safe to eat... (Mark 7:19)

I kinda disagreed with the way this was being used as more of an excuse to fill yaself full of rubbish, and thought it was taken out of context slightly.. Mcdonalds or KFC were not around when this scripture was written, Most things then would of been healthy anyway... Not processed like it is today.

My friend asked if what I was saying was mans wisdom or Gods... He said he eats what he eats and then trusts God to look after his body. I strongly disagreed with that.

I woke up this morning though and though about some stuff... There is a lot of areas in my life still that I know I haven't fully surrendered to the Lord.. Self preservation is an ugly thing, I know I still try and preserve myself a lot.. I fail miserably. So this has made me think a little...

Be great to hear back from what u all think. I don't want to come across like my argument is valid and his isn't.. I want to grow and learn so everything i say is with humility.. Correct me if u see fit.

Sounds like your friend knows the Lord and Gods Word

 

[Mitspa]

I personally think it is complete junk. I very rarely eat fast food. But I may it eat once in a blue moon. I'm not obsessive with NOT eating it as if I'm going to ruin my life forever and a day.

I'm not legalistic over it either if other people do eat it. I do try to tell people about eating healthy food though when the opportunity is there.

I wouldn't try to condemn them either by saying they are willfully tempting God if they do eat it. They have the Holy Spirit in them just like I do. I trust Him with their lives and that He can speak to them about what they are to do.

Ok Grace ..me and you finally disagree ...haha

so when the scriptures tell us to do all things in moderation ..what is needed beyond that? Is it faith to go around telling other believers that certain things are greater than God protection and will kill you? That's not faith...Faith is trusting the Lord with your health and enjoying all things in moderation as the scriptures clearly teach.

 

[Mitspa]

Do any of us believe God would withold healing from a person out of shape? Would He demand they take up a new diet before He acted on their behalf?

 

[Mitspa]

I will add that the root of all legalism in every false way goes back to some form of trying to justify oneself through dietary logic ... Your body is the Temple of God has absolutely NOTHING to do with diet!

 

[Grace777x70]

Ok Grace ..me and you finally disagree ...haha

so when the scriptures tell us to do all things in moderation ..what is needed beyond that? Is it faith to go around telling other believers that certain things are greater than God protection and will kill you? That's not faith...Faith is trusting the Lord with your health and enjoying all things in moderation as the scriptures clearly teach.

LOL..that as funny...that made me laugh out loud..we finally disagree..lol

I agree with what you said but I think people sometimes need to grow into the understanding and enlightenment of the Holy Spirit and need to time to grow in what they are to do. I always encourage people to have faith in trusting God for your health. I take my vitamins thanking God that He is the one that makes me healthy.

Sometimes not all things are as they appear. I saw a study on organic brown rice from China and it was contaminated with heavy metals. In these types of situations - we could be eating what we think is "healthy" but the Holy Spirit may say "stop eating that".

I like to say it this way - I don't eat good food to make me healthy - I eat good food because I am healthy. Jesus is our health!