Hi Stonesoffire
I didn't read all of Dcon's thread. I cannot know what anyone thinks.
I do know that I was very much attacked for my beliefs instead of discussing them.
So now I feel we could really discuss.
Here is the problem with how Dcon thinks, and I only mention him because you yourself have said (if I understood, ifi not I aplogiize) that you were influenced by his way of thinking (and those who think like him, I don't mean to single him out).
He believes that the workers for are lost. This is wrong. I understand his zeal to get them saved --- the problem is that they ARE SAVED!
There are only two categories of persons in this world: Those who believe in God and those who don't. Those who do not believe in God cannot go to be with someone they don't even believe exists. Or they believe He does exist, but they don't care to be with Him for eternity.
The second category is lost. And THEY are the ones we are to witness to. Some of those are reading along on these threads...
The first category is all of us. We are all saved, we just have a different way of undersanding things and how we undersand them affects how we witness, how we show our faith to Others, how we live by the spirit, as you stated.
We have persons that do not know the Lord, who are trying to live good lives and are working very hard doing all sorts of things---but if they don't have belief in God and His Son, their works will amount to nothing. I would call these self-righteous works.
In the eyes of God, these persons are doing nothing for the Kingdom, because they are not IN the Kingdom.
Then there are saved people who feel they have to do a lot to please God. Maybe they volunteer for their Church, maybe the work in a soup kitchen, maybe they donate a lot of money for the poor. So, they're working their knuckles red, but these are not self-righteous works because the person is doing them for GOD. They are building on the Cornerstone, they are doing what they believe will please Jesus.
We cannot deny that Jesus left us with things to do, with ways to be, with behaviors to follow.
It is not CORRECT to put these persons with the "plentious" as Dcon says. If they want to work, let them work. Is it any skin off our backs? NO.
Then we have another category of persons who do NOTHING. They've been brainwashed into easy believism, cheap grace. I didn't make up these terms, they are used by many who preach and know the bible a lot better than any of us here. They teach that it's only necessary to know Jesus and we'll be saved. Of course, they say that good works are a RESULT of this belief, but if you read carefully what they teach, this is not true.
Anyone reading their words comes to understand that they could have a foot in the world and a foot in the Kingdom and it's OK because we're immature little chirldren who have to grow and everything is ok with God as long as we believe in Jesus.
Have you ever tried to have a foot in two different boats? What happens?
Then there is the third and the CORRECT category of persons. There is ever such a thin red line between these persons and the ones above that if one is not a mature Christian and understands their standing in God, it almost sounds the same.
These persons live their life for God. Romans 12:1. They present themselves a living sacrifice. That means that they do all they can to actually live as God would want them to live. This would include not calling persons names, treating Others gently and truly living according to the spirit.
You said that we are to do Jesus' works? Well, what's the difference between Jesus' works and every other work? What is a work anyway?
In all things you do, do them for the glory of God.
1 Corinthians 10:31
Paul is speaking about eating and drinking, doing or not doing, but whatever we do we should do it for glory to God.
So if I cook for my family, let it be to the best of my ability and to glorify God so that they can say: She''s Christian - this is how Christians are. Let us bring glory to God and not shame. Anythng we do is a work when we know the Lord. We do all for Him.
There is NO SUCH THING as a SELF-RIGHTEOUS work when we work for God.
You said that after salvation we build on the Kingdom Law. What is the Kingdom Law?
Is it not to do what the Master proclaims?
And if we tire? God does not want us to tire. Jesus said His yoke is easy and His burden light. If we tire, we slow down. We rest in the Lord.
But we make it CLEAR that we are to follow the commandments Jesus left us with. His were not suggestions, but commands.
Let us speak clearly and do cleary. Let those reading along understand that Jesus EXPECTS us to do His work for Him.
He's not coming down here to promote the Kingdom. it's our job.
Let's not argue about whether or not it's a result of our faith. OF COURSE it's a result of our faith.
For this reason it counts to us as God's righteousness. EVERYTHING WE DO is for God's righteousness and not our own.
There are NO SELF-RIGHTEOUS works after we're saved.
Now, someone may boast that they work. This is wrong. Do we not forgive our brothers their sins? Is this sin worse than lying or calling someone a drogatory name? it still does not make it a self-righteous work PRECISELY B ECAUSE we are IN Jesus and He saves us from ALL sin.
I hope this is clear. I think it's very important to understand the above and to stop calling those of us who understand this "workers for".
I work for nothing. Jesus saved me. I work because I want to show my love for Him and because He said I was to live for Him and Jesus does not make suggestions, but commands us as to what we are to do to live in the spirit according to the words He left us with.
Some here make it sound like a choice...
or I hear that it's not necessary to ask forgiveness of sins and that I should write each one down so as not to forget even one.
I mean, we could get really silly with all these NEW concepts which were not part of Christianity just a couple of hundred years ago and some even 50 years ago.
Does God not remain the same?
Is it right for Man to change Him??
