Did Jesus abolish the law? Should we keep the commandments?
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Here's how a sinner establishes the Law by faith:
1. He acknowledges to God that the Law justly condemns him to Hell.
2. He believes that Christ fully met all the demand of the Law on His behalf.
3. He then fully acknowledges that his standard of behavior as a Christian is contained within the Law.
4. He also recognizes that it is by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit that he fulfils the Law after being justified by grace.
The Ten Commandments were never abrogated. That is a total fallacy and false doctrine. However in the Old Covenant they were written on tablets of stone, but in the New Covenant they are written in the hearts and minds of God's people.
1. He acknowledges to God that the Law justly condemns him to Hell.
2. He believes that Christ fully met all the demand of the Law on His behalf.
3. He then fully acknowledges that his standard of behavior as a Christian is contained within the Law.
4. He also recognizes that it is by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit that he fulfils the Law after being justified by grace.
The Ten Commandments were never abrogated. That is a total fallacy and false doctrine. However in the Old Covenant they were written on tablets of stone, but in the New Covenant they are written in the hearts and minds of God's people.
So let's be consistent with your theology.
Originally Posted by Hizikyah
Romans 3:28, “For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.”
Romans 3:31, “Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!”
First of all we have to ask what law do you think this is?
Because you said that works of the law means levitical law.
So we are justified by faith apart from the levitical law...
But then our faith establishes the levitical law???
I'm not agreeing with this. But the scripture is perfectly clear if you have the correct understanding of works of the law.
Hiz at first agreed with you that works of the law meant levitical law, but then he rescinded and said I was bearing false witness. Because it is obvious that works of the law does not mean levitical law, imo.
Romans 3:28, “For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.”
Romans 3:31, “Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!”
Because you said that works of the law means levitical law.
So we are justified by faith apart from the levitical law...
But then our faith establishes the levitical law???
I'm not agreeing with this. But the scripture is perfectly clear if you have the correct understanding of works of the law.
Hiz at first agreed with you that works of the law meant levitical law, but then he rescinded and said I was bearing false witness. Because it is obvious that works of the law does not mean levitical law, imo.
E
True, but as you said, We do not need thge teacher anymore. Anymore than a child of God needs the law
Again, as paul said, the law was not written for the righteous, but the sinner.
Usin your example. The law (teacher) was not there for the graduate, but for the student. The student needs it to graduate, but once they graduate, it (the teacher) no longer is needed.
E
The word does mean to make stand or to establish.
The lord saying keep my commands does not fit with the word establish. Because the law required perfection. In order to make the law “stand” you would have to be perfect (again, as moses said, confirm and OBEY every word. Not just what words you which to obey, and as james said, break it once, even the smallest part. And your guyilty of th whole law)
So how can you make the law “stand” if you still break it.
E
part three?? The law tells the believer how to behave? Where is that found?
The law establishes what God demands. And that demand is perfection. If the law demands how a christian is to behave, A christian would have to be perfect.
How can the law establish a standard of behavior that no one can fulfill/ (well Christ did)
The law establishes what God demands. And that demand is perfection. If the law demands how a christian is to behave, A christian would have to be perfect.
How can the law establish a standard of behavior that no one can fulfill/ (well Christ did)
Our faith in the above cartoon establishes the law removing itforeer from the stone, and taking away the curse of the law. The law is established on our hearts so when we act, we know in our hearts exactly how the law is to b edeat with for the law, spiritually, will never be abolished as long as there is sun and moon.
If some are so heartless as to believe Christ crucified meas we are to disobey the laws of love which include the commandments of God.....I have nothing but pity for them, and I pray God help them all, amen
If some are so heartless as to believe Christ crucified meas we are to disobey the laws of love which include the commandments of God.....I have nothing but pity for them, and I pray God help them all, amen
cute cartoon
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and possessing the Witness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and possessing the Witness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The “curse of the Law” is receiving death for sin worthy of death. Yahshua/Jesus took that curse upon Himself for all those in Him.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 21:22-23, “And when a man has committed a sin worthy of death, then he shall be put to death and you shall hang him on a tree. Let his body not remain overnight on the tree, for you shall certainly bury him the same day – for he who is hanged is accursed of Yah – so that you do not defile the land which [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Strength is giving you as an inheritance.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 3:10-14, “10, "For as many as are of works of Torah are under the curse, for it has been written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all that has been written in the Book of the Torah, to do them.” (Deut 27:26) 11, "And that no one is declared right by Torah before YHWH is clear, for “The righteous shall live by belief. (Hab 2:4)” 12, "And the Torah is not of belief, but “The man who does them shall live by them, (Leviticus 18:5)” 13, "Messiah redeemed us from the curse of the Torah, having become a curse for us – for it has been written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs upon a tree.” – (Deut 21:23) 14, "in order that the blessing of Aḇraham might come upon the nations in Messiah [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], to receive the promise of the Spirit through belief."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 3:13,(KJV) "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the Law (death), being made a curse for us, for it is written, Cursed is everyone who hangeth on a tree."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Peter 2:24, "who Himself bore our sins in His body on the timber, so that we, having died to sins, might live unto righteousness, by whose stripes you were healed.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 53:4-5, “Truly, He has borne our sicknesses and carried our pains. Yet we reckoned Him smitten·, stricken by YHWH, and afflicted. But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our crookedness. The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Peter 4:1-2, "Therefore, since Messiah suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, so that he no longer lives the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but according to the desire of YHWH."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 21:22-23, “And when a man has committed a sin worthy of death, then he shall be put to death and you shall hang him on a tree. Let his body not remain overnight on the tree, for you shall certainly bury him the same day – for he who is hanged is accursed of Yah – so that you do not defile the land which [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Strength is giving you as an inheritance.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 3:10-14, “10, "For as many as are of works of Torah are under the curse, for it has been written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all that has been written in the Book of the Torah, to do them.” (Deut 27:26) 11, "And that no one is declared right by Torah before YHWH is clear, for “The righteous shall live by belief. (Hab 2:4)” 12, "And the Torah is not of belief, but “The man who does them shall live by them, (Leviticus 18:5)” 13, "Messiah redeemed us from the curse of the Torah, having become a curse for us – for it has been written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs upon a tree.” – (Deut 21:23) 14, "in order that the blessing of Aḇraham might come upon the nations in Messiah [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], to receive the promise of the Spirit through belief."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 3:13,(KJV) "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the Law (death), being made a curse for us, for it is written, Cursed is everyone who hangeth on a tree."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Peter 2:24, "who Himself bore our sins in His body on the timber, so that we, having died to sins, might live unto righteousness, by whose stripes you were healed.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 53:4-5, “Truly, He has borne our sicknesses and carried our pains. Yet we reckoned Him smitten·, stricken by YHWH, and afflicted. But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our crookedness. The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Peter 4:1-2, "Therefore, since Messiah suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, so that he no longer lives the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but according to the desire of YHWH."[/FONT]
The whole purpose of satan is to deceive people into disobeying God. satan used God's Word, not all of it, just the parts it could twist to trick Eve with, to turn her away from the true God in the very beginning. That is the one purpose of satan.
I challenge anyone to find scriptural support to the contrary.
1 Peter 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Through out the Bible there has been one constant and this constant cannot be denied, and that is EVERY EXAMPLE of Faith in the Bible "worked" to be obedient to God's Laws rather than follow their own doctrines and traditions. They "worked" to over come their flesh and used God's help to accomplish this. Those who loved God and kept His Commandments were made some of the most famous and honored men on the planet by the God of Abraham.
And every example of evil man with no faith were men that rejected the Commandments of God and created their own.
The New Testament warns us how satan with do this. First Jesus warns of who to be careful of.
Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
This can only be "Christians", there is no other people who fit this description.
Deceive us into what?
I have asked several times for any person on this forum or anywhere else, for one example in the entire Bible where satan deceived someone into obeying God. Of course they can't because there is none.
So Jesus, in His love for us, also inspired it to be written exactly HOW satan will trick us into disobeying God. It will use God's Word, not all of them, just the parts it can twist to alter the meaning of the Commandment. (See Adam and Eve).
Jesus also inspires it to be written "WHO" will deceive us.
2 Cor. 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
There it is again, "According to their works".
Jesus mentioned this same thing in Matt. 7.20-23.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
When these Christians "prophesied" in Christ's name, did they teach the truth? Or did they deceive those who listened to them?
Jesus warned there are two Paths. A Broad Path with "MANY" on it, and a Narrow Path with Few on it.
Matt. 7:12
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Lev. 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. 18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Ask yourself, why would people go on a Path that leads to destruction? They have been tricked, that's why. Do you think the "leaders" of this broad Path are telling folks, "Come join us on the Path to destruction? Of course not. They are declaring "come follow us on a path to eternal life." And they will use parts of God's Word to do this as Jesus taught us.
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Why is this? The Leaders on this Path are saying the same things, YES? "Come follow us on the Path to eternal life". It's because this Path has the true Light which exposes every dark corner of our mind. And men love darkness. So they follow a Path that doesn't expose their disobedience. But Jesus said we will still know them by their works.
It is simple. Do they "Walk as Jesus walked"? Or do they transgress the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and traditions. Even a child can understand this.
So then the last question. Who is satan after? Well Jesus in His Mercy also inspired this answer to be written in all of our Bibles.
Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Faith and obedience.
Eph. 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
What, we are supposed to walk a certain way? I thought Jesus did our walking for us.
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth)
Whose "Goodness", man's or Gods? Whose Righteousness, man's or Gods, whose truth, man's or God's?
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Uh Oh, more "work" for us.
The cartoon above is just another in a long list of images man has created for worship. Jesus, the WORD, the LIGHT, exposes all such wickedness, so they must destroy it and find "another" way to heaven. As Prophesied.
I know you know these things JJ. But it is good to always have these things in remembrance.
I challenge anyone to find scriptural support to the contrary.
1 Peter 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Through out the Bible there has been one constant and this constant cannot be denied, and that is EVERY EXAMPLE of Faith in the Bible "worked" to be obedient to God's Laws rather than follow their own doctrines and traditions. They "worked" to over come their flesh and used God's help to accomplish this. Those who loved God and kept His Commandments were made some of the most famous and honored men on the planet by the God of Abraham.
And every example of evil man with no faith were men that rejected the Commandments of God and created their own.
The New Testament warns us how satan with do this. First Jesus warns of who to be careful of.
Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
This can only be "Christians", there is no other people who fit this description.
Deceive us into what?
I have asked several times for any person on this forum or anywhere else, for one example in the entire Bible where satan deceived someone into obeying God. Of course they can't because there is none.
So Jesus, in His love for us, also inspired it to be written exactly HOW satan will trick us into disobeying God. It will use God's Word, not all of them, just the parts it can twist to alter the meaning of the Commandment. (See Adam and Eve).
Jesus also inspires it to be written "WHO" will deceive us.
2 Cor. 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
There it is again, "According to their works".
Jesus mentioned this same thing in Matt. 7.20-23.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
When these Christians "prophesied" in Christ's name, did they teach the truth? Or did they deceive those who listened to them?
Jesus warned there are two Paths. A Broad Path with "MANY" on it, and a Narrow Path with Few on it.
Matt. 7:12
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Lev. 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. 18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Ask yourself, why would people go on a Path that leads to destruction? They have been tricked, that's why. Do you think the "leaders" of this broad Path are telling folks, "Come join us on the Path to destruction? Of course not. They are declaring "come follow us on a path to eternal life." And they will use parts of God's Word to do this as Jesus taught us.
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Why is this? The Leaders on this Path are saying the same things, YES? "Come follow us on the Path to eternal life". It's because this Path has the true Light which exposes every dark corner of our mind. And men love darkness. So they follow a Path that doesn't expose their disobedience. But Jesus said we will still know them by their works.
It is simple. Do they "Walk as Jesus walked"? Or do they transgress the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and traditions. Even a child can understand this.
So then the last question. Who is satan after? Well Jesus in His Mercy also inspired this answer to be written in all of our Bibles.
Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Faith and obedience.
Eph. 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
What, we are supposed to walk a certain way? I thought Jesus did our walking for us.
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth)
Whose "Goodness", man's or Gods? Whose Righteousness, man's or Gods, whose truth, man's or God's?
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Uh Oh, more "work" for us.
The cartoon above is just another in a long list of images man has created for worship. Jesus, the WORD, the LIGHT, exposes all such wickedness, so they must destroy it and find "another" way to heaven. As Prophesied.
I know you know these things JJ. But it is good to always have these things in remembrance.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by valiant
The ten words are part of God's covenant with ISRAEL when He delivered them from bondage.
We are free to follow a higher law given by Christ
We are free to follow a higher law given by Christ
We trace our ancestry to Abraham not to Israel. A covenant confirmed beforehand by God, the Law which came four hundred and thirty years after cannot disannul. If the inheritance is of the Law it is no more of promise (Gal 3.17-18). We do not look to the earthly Jerusalem but the heavenly (Gal 4.21-31)
I am not of Israel physically.
I look back to the Abrahamic covenant. The Law was temporary,
Christ's law is based on the Father's word, but it is not the law given to Israel. That was temporary. Find me ANY stipulation He gave about the 'fourth commandment' when He was listing God's eternal principles e.g. Matth 19.17-19 .You can't.
LOL you would have put it on every page