Are you saved if you are not obedient?

[Ralph-]

I maintain a person can be in bondage to sin and be saved- just not in close communion with God. Samson was in bondage, yet he was saved.

There are many people fighting addictions who are saved. I daresay some of us on this site are addicted and in bondage to this site.

An addiction is not necessarily being in bondage to sin. The agreement with sin is the bondage to sin.

 

[Zi]

I strongly beg to differ. No one in bondage (aside from the depraved) agree to be held

An addiction is not necessarily being in bondage to sin. The agreement with sin is the bondage to sin.

 

[Zi]

Deliverance comes about because of your desire to be free from the bondage

An addiction is not necessarily being in bondage to sin. The agreement with sin is the bondage to sin.

 

[Ralph-]

I strongly beg to differ. No one in bondage (aside from the depraved) agree to be held

Do you recall what John said in Revelation about those who will be outside of the City? They LOVE what?

 

[Ralph-]

This has been fun, but I'm going to watch TV for a while.

 

[stonesoffire]

No, but it does make you a heretic.

You got a scripture to back that up?

 

[DJ2]

Where do you get your info? Water represents physical birth (that which is born of Flesh) spirit represents spiritual birth (that which is born of Spirit is spirit)

If your not born again, Your not saved, your still dead in your sin. You have not experienced the washing of regeneration of Titus 3.

Let me get this straight. Jesus wants Nicodemus and the rest of us to understand that we must be physically born and spiritually born in order to be saved? I am so glad you cleared that up for me. I thought the term for physical birth in the Bible was born of woman. Where else is human birth called being "born of water"?

 

[DJ2]

Uh oh. You're at the 'lol' stage. Not a good sign.

Where is this proof that there are Christians that believe their works earn them their salvation? Is there a respectable denomination that teaches this? That would help. I'm not aware of any. And I've never fellowshiped with a professing believer who sincerely thought his works bought him his salvation. This is not the 1st century. The message of grace is so well understood and accepted in the church that working to earn your salvation is not even an issue anymore. But I know it makes for readily available sermon material to peach to the choir.

But I know it makes for readily available sermon material to peach to the choir

Many in the trust only groups see works under every rock they come across. They are quick to accuse anyone who even so much as suggest obedience is a necessary aspect toward salvation of heresy. All the while blind to their own self-imposed work of correctly accepting their strict formula of faith alone regeneration theology. A theology so strict that its acceptance borders on the esoteric.

It takes little effort to see that many on this thread are followers of this theology.

 

[Studyman]

Many in the trust only groups see works under every rock they come across. They are quick to accuse anyone who even so much as suggest obedience is a necessary aspect toward salvation of heresy. All the while blind to their own self-imposed work of correctly accepting their strict formula of faith alone regeneration theology. A theology so strict that its acceptance borders on the esoteric.

It takes little effort to see that many on this thread are followers of this theology.

Thank You

 

[zeroturbulence]

NO one is obdeient. Anyone who thinks they are is simply fooling themselves...

Mark 10_18 NIV:
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

 

[mailmandan]

Amen,. Not of works lest anyone should boast. Quite clear. Not of works, means not of works, any works, Paul did not mention eth law. He meant any works.

I often hear works-salvationists try to dissect good works -- "works of obedience/works of faith" etc.. from the moral aspect of the law and teach that we are saved by "these" works (works of obedience/works of faith) and just not "those" works (works of the law) yet we cannot dissect good works in general from the moral aspect of the law (Matthew 22:37-40).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you say you are in the bondage of sin like Paul was in Romans 7 then you are a Romans 7 person. You have yet to come into the Romans 8 answer to that bondage of sin. The answer is not that God gives you his Spirit and it's okay now. The answer is he gives you his Spirit so that you can not be in bondage to sin anymore.

Paul was not in bondage to sin in romans 7. That is a horrific interpretation of that passage, He was leading up to romans 8 and where he found power over sin. Vs trying to rely on power of self to break the power of sin.

I recommend you

1. Learn what it means to be in the flesh
2. learn what it means to be in the spirit
3. Learn why it is better to be in the spirit and not the flesh.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Were they in bondage to sin? Did they act like they did before they walked with God? Were they indistinguishable from those who did not walk with God?

Here we go.. Ralph- thinks that when a person Comes to God they go from being evil enemies of God to super mature adult men of God who have learned complete victory over ALL of their sin issues.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nope. You are probably among the many who confuse people saying obedience is the sign of being born again with saying they earn their salvation by their obedience.

Again, your the one who is confused. WE teach obedience is a sign of faith.

Our argument is against those who teach obedience is REQUIRED to maintain salvation.

you need to stop playing ignorant and realise there is a HUIGE difference.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Which law(s) did these people keep that caused them to be condemned for being lawless? Is working miracles and casting out demons in Christ's name laws of Moses? Isn't it rather that they did not keep the law of Moses that made them lawless?

Your stuck on the law of moses. You need to stop seeing the law of moses every time you see the word works.

WORKS is not just the law of moses. The works the people did were considered works of believers.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Set me straight and point me to the posts where Christians are saying salvation is earned by doing works. That will end the contention. You aren't going to find them (one maybe?). What you will find are posts that you have decided that's what those Christians are doing. Prove me wrong on this.

You believe salvation can be lost. You teach against OSAS. You teach salvation MUST be maintained by obedience.

You teach works.

The contention will not end until you admit the reality, that tryin got maintain salvation by any power of the FLESH (self will) is believeing in a salvation of works.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Anybody who is 'in the flesh' is not born again. They do not belong to Christ. Paul said so.

So you NEVER EVER think of self. And place your needs above others????

lol.. If you think so. You need to learn about God alittle more.. and how different you are from him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Obedience is required to maintain salvation???? Where are you getting this stuff? I do not have anyone on ignore so I don't think I've missed any posts here, have I?

Lol.. You must not read your own posts either. Have you changed and now believe in eternal security?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

An addiction is not necessarily being in bondage to sin. The agreement with sin is the bondage to sin.

WHAT? Where do you get this stuff?

Addiction which is active, is certainly bondage to sin. Especially if one is active in their addiction (whatever it ,may be) Agreement to sin? This makes no sense. So If I agree that bearing false witness is a sin I am in bondage to it?

 

[mailmandan]

Many in the trust only groups see works under every rock they come across. They are quick to accuse anyone who even so much as suggest obedience is a necessary aspect toward salvation of heresy.

If obedience is a necessary aspect toward salvation, then "how much obedience does it take?" Choosing to believe the gospel is the act of obedience that saves (Romans 1:16; 10:16) and multiple acts of obedience which "follow" are "works" and we are saved through faith/believing the gospel, not by works (Acts 15:7-9; 26:18; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..). Plain and simple.

Many in the works-salvation groups are quick to say that faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE is insufficient to save, then go on to "add" a list of works to the gospel that they believe we must accomplish "in addition" to believing the gospel/placing faith in Christ for salvation in order to be saved (and may even define their "works based false gospel" as believing the gospel), yet they can't all agree on which works those are. Some are completely hung up on water baptism, yet others are completely hung up on keeping the Sabbath day etc..

Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. Works salvationists turn to supplements, which renders Christ and insufficient Savior in their theology.

All the while blind to their own self-imposed work of correctly accepting their strict formula of faith alone regeneration theology. A theology so strict that its acceptance borders on the esoteric.

That's cute. Faith is not just another work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works. Choosing to believe the gospel/place our faith in Christ alone for salvation is clearly not a work that merits our salvation. Through believing/faith, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption). Through believing/faith, Christ is still the object of our complete trust in receiving salvation.

If works which follow saving faith in Christ are necessary for salvation, then that would add merit on our part to receiving salvation because then we would be saved based on the merits of Christ's finished work of redemption "plus the merits of our works." Either we are saved by trusting or else we are saved by trying. Either Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient to save or else it's insufficient and we have to help Him save us based on our works. You can't have it both ways.

It takes little effort to see that many on this thread are followers of this theology.

It's refreshing to see there are many on this thread who have placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) IN CHRIST ALONE for salvation and are not trusting in works for salvation. I hope and pray that all on this thread and Christian Chat in general will do the same. WORKS SALVATION IS NO SALVATION AT ALL. (Romans 4:4-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).