KING JAMES VERSION BIBLE VS. MODERN ENGLISH BIBLES

[Limey410v2]

I'm afraid Billy was not a Christian. Among his many faults at being a Christian leader, his biggest was to claim Jesus was not the only way to God. Below is an excerpt from an interview he did with the heretic Robert Schuler.


SCHULLER: Tell me, what do you think is the future of Christianity?

GRAHAM: Well, Christianity and being a true believer—you know, I think there’s the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they’re conscious of it or not, they’re members of the Body of Christ. And I don’t think that we’re going to see a great sweeping revival that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that—the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God’s purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that’s what God is doing today, He’s calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world, or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they’ve been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus, but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don’t have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they’re going to be with us in heaven.

Doesn't necessarily mean he is not a Christian (Christians say whacked out things all the time), it just means he is confused/deceived.

 

[KJV1611]

Doesn't necessarily mean he is not a Christian (Christians say whacked out things all the time), it just means he is confused/deceived.

At what point do we consider one a wolf in sheeps clothing?

 

[Limey410v2]

At what point do we consider one a wolf in sheeps clothing?

Lol, I don't. I know that what he stated is a lie. But Christians lie all the time, it doesn't negate their Salvation. It's a sin, and all of our sins were forgiven at the cross, so I don't concern myself too much with others sin. Including Billys. But if he has the Spirit of God dwelling within him when he died then both you and I will see him in Heaven.

 

[KJV1611]

Lol, I don't. I know that what he stated is a lie. But Christians lie all the time, it doesn't negate their Salvation. It's a sin, and all of our sins were forgiven at the cross, so I don't concern myself too much with others sin. Including Billys. But if he has the Spirit of God dwelling within him when he died then both you and I will see him in Heaven.

This verse just popped in my mind.

[h=1]Galatians 1:8-9 King James Version (KJV)[/h]8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

 

[Limey410v2]

This verse just popped in my mind.

[h=1]Galatians 1:8-9 King James Version (KJV)[/h]8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Yes, I think Paul is being a little more specific to those that were preaching salvation through the law, and not Grace. However I also don't think he is speaking of those that are mistaken, necessarily being cast in to hell. Which is the consequence of rejecting the Messiah, merely that they will be going through their lives continuing to try and find peace through the law, hence being accursed.

 

[preston39]

Lol, I don't. I know that what he stated is a lie. But Christians lie all the time, it doesn't negate their Salvation. It's a sin, and all of our sins were forgiven at the cross, so I don't concern myself too much with others sin. Including Billys. But if he has the Spirit of God dwelling within him when he died then both you and I will see him in Heaven.

L...

Do you really think liars will be in Heaven...without forgiveness?

You gotta be kidding,,,what does this scripture mean; Revelation 21:8[FONT=&quot]But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

What bible do you use?[/FONT]

 

[stonesoffire]

A liar that ends up in hell has the nature of a liar. Not born again of incorruptible seed.

A Christian may be tempted to lie, but has another nature from God.


This used to torment me.

 

[Limey410v2]

L...

Do you really think liars will be in Heaven...without forgiveness?

You gotta be kidding,,,what does this scripture mean; Revelation 21:8[FONT=&quot]But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

What bible do you use?[/FONT]

King James and NASB primarily. You must have skipped over the "forgiven at the cross" portion of my post. My apologies for not bolding and highlighting for you.

 

[MarcR]

At what point do we consider one a wolf in sheeps clothing?

I think that if over several months, the fruit of the Spirit is not evident; one can suspect that something is NOT RIGHT.

 

[MarcR]

Have you looked up the definition of establish?

es·tab·lish
əˈstabliSH/
verb

• 1.
  set up (an organization, system, or set of rules) on a firm or permanent basis.
  "the British established a rich trade with Portugal"

• 
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]set up, start, initiate, institute, form, found, create, inaugurate; More[/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  
  
• 2.
  achieve permanent acceptance or recognition for.
  "the principle of the supremacy of national parliaments needs to be firmly established"

Establish does not mean begotten or monogenes.

Establish, in this sense, means assign a role and authority. It does NOT mean bring into existence.

John 1:1-3
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
KJV


Jesus was NEVER brought into existence He is Eternal.

 

[MarcR]

If anyone is interested, all translations call Jesus eternal or everlasting Father.

New International Version
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

New Living Translation
For a child is born to us, a son is given to us. The government will rest on his shoulders. And he will be called: Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

English Standard Version
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

New American Standard Bible
For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

King James Bible
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Christian Standard Bible
For a child will be born for us, a son will be given to us, and the government will be on his shoulders. He will be named Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Contemporary English Version
A child has been born for us. We have been given a son who will be our ruler. His names will be Wonderful Advisor and Mighty God, Eternal Father and Prince of Peace.

Good News Translation
A child is born to us! A son is given to us! And he will be our ruler. He will be called, "Wonderful Counselor," "Mighty God," "Eternal Father," "Prince of Peace."

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For a child will be born for us, a son will be given to us, and the government will be on His shoulders. He will be named Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

International Standard Version
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name is called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

NET Bible
For a child has been born to us, a son has been given to us. He shoulders responsibility and is called: Extraordinary Strategist, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

New Heart English Bible
For to us a child is born. To us a son is given; and the government will be on his shoulders. His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
A child will be born for us. A son will be given to us. The government will rest on his shoulders. He will be named: Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

JPS Tanakh 1917
For a child is born unto us, A son is given unto us; And the government is upon his shoulder; And his name is called Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom;

New American Standard 1977
For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government is placed upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called The Wonderful One, The Counsellor, The God, The Mighty One, The Eternal Father, The Prince of Peace.

King James 2000 Bible
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

American King James Version
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given: and the government shall be on his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

American Standard Version
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For a CHILD IS BORN to us, and a son is given to us, and the government is upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called, Wonderful, Counsellor, God the Mighty, the Father of the world to come, the Prince of Peace.

Darby Bible Translation
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name is called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace.

English Revised Version
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Webster's Bible Translation
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

World English Bible
For to us a child is born. To us a son is given; and the government will be on his shoulders. His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Young's Literal Translation
For a Child hath been born to us, A Son hath been given to us, And the princely power is on his shoulder, And He doth call his name Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace.

hat is true; but, in Hebrew, the word shaym (name) has the primary sense of AUTHORITY NOT APPELATION.

The intent here is that Jesus' AUTHORITY, and that of the FATHER are EQUAL; NOT that they are the SAME PERSON.
T

 

[KJV1611]

hat is true; but, in Hebrew, the word shaym (name) has the primary sense of AUTHORITY NOT APPELATION.

The intent here is that Jesus' AUTHORITY, and that of the FATHER are EQUAL; NOT that they are the SAME PERSON.
T

I can't argue that one lol.

 

[KJV1611]

MarcR who do you think I Am is?

 

[SovereignGrace]

MarcR who do you think I Am is?

I am not MarcR, but I believe Him to be the Christ.

 

[KJV1611]

I am not MarcR, but I believe Him to be the Christ.

I agree but I also think it's the Father. Are there any indications that this verse is Jesus in your opinion?

[h=1]Exodus 3:14 King James Version (KJV)[/h]14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

 

[MarcR]

MarcR who do you think I Am is?

We know John 6:44-46
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
KJV


Therefore He who appeared to Moses must have been the pre-incarnate Christ.

But, that does NOT exclude that designation from equally applying to the Father and Holy Spirit.

 

[KJV1611]

We know John 6:44-46
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
KJV


Therefore He who appeared to Moses must have been the pre-incarnate Christ.

But, that does NOT exclude that designation from equally applying to the Father and Holy Spirit.

What's your take on "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father"?


John 14:9-11 King James Version (KJV)

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I agree but I also think it's the Father. Are there any indications that this verse is Jesus in your opinion?

Exodus 3:14 King James Version (KJV)

14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

We see God making all that we see in Genesis. John affirms it was the Christ who created all we see. So, Jesus is God, God the Son.

 

[MarcR]

What's your take on "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father"?


John 14:9-11 King James Version (KJV)

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

John 6:46 excludes their being identical. Therefore, it must mean that they are in total agreement and harmony with one another. On the face of it, the statement however : he that hath seen me hath seen the Father seems to make them identical; however John 14:9 and John 6:46 MUST be simultaneously true.

 

[KJV1611]

John 6:46 excludes their being identical. Therefore, it must mean that they are in total agreement and harmony with one another. On the face of it, the statement however : he that hath seen me hath seen the Father seems to make them identical; however John 14:9 and John 6:46 MUST be simultaneously true.

This will be my last question for tonight.... I'll leave you alone after this one lol.

In verse 45 what is God in Greek - singular or plural?

John 6:45-46 King James Version (KJV)

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.