2Timothy 1:9

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#21
2 Timothy 1:9 (ISVN) He saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our own works but according to his own purpose and the grace that was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.ISV

2 Timothy 1:9 (NLT) It is God who saved us and chose us to live a holy life. He did this not because we deserved it, but because that was his plan long before the world began—to show his love and kindness to us through Christ Jesus.NLT
 
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ember

Guest
#22
That is far deeper and more meaningful than anything we could do and you know, I don't think I have heard this preached on very often if ever

It's always about what we can do or what Christ has done, but this is something different and yes I am familiar with the text

This identifies a purpose of God that surpasses our imagination and all the worries, sins and conflicts we may have

This requires thought and a working knowledge of scripture to reflect upon.

Seems God purposes to show us purpose IN Him BECAUSE He wishes us to know his love and kindness and He planned it before the Garden if I understand it
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#23
To be fair to Just-me, I don't even see where in the passage it mentions 'he gave purpose and grace based on our choice'.
Is that what you are saying?
It is not that we loved him, but that he loved us......and called us according to his purpose....I think that God made all things...including the wicked for the day of destruction and the works that we should walk around in were prepared before the casting down of the world....not necessarily based upon our choice....

Having said that there is a fine line for sure...even Pharaoh was raised up for a specific purpose...all I am saying is that God knew we would believe before he laid the foundation of the earth and predetermined by his choice our purpose and or work ahead of schedule....Like the verse which speaks to what and who God places in the church for the edifying of the saints...to some he gave apostles, to some teaching pastors etc.....It is all according to God's plan and will, but in my mind God directs his will at humanity all the time based upon the choices we make and or lack thereof.....Although his WILL is foreordained and predetermined before the casting down of the world.......If that makes sense......God's will is both pro-active and pre-emptive...all inclusive and will be done!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#24
We should be "juxtaposing" the word of God according to His will, not "just supposing" it. Presenting God's word as an answer to a question isn't " me" inserting "man's works into the mix," It's God.
Using james to contradict paul does not help you.

Because james did not. All james did, is show that those saved by grace, through faith. will produce work. as appose to those who will never saved by mere belief, which will have no work.

The context is faith vs no faith. not works..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#25
2 Timothy 1:9 (ISVN) He saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our own works but according to his own purpose and the grace that was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.ISV

2 Timothy 1:9 (NLT) It is God who saved us and chose us to live a holy life. He did this not because we deserved it, but because that was his plan long before the world began—to show his love and kindness to us through Christ Jesus.NLT

seems like no matter what version or text you use, they all say the same

Not by our works. but by his mercy and grace, Which allowed him to call us before time began.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#26
[h=1]Titus 3:5New King James Version (NKJV)[/h] [SUP]5 [/SUP]not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,


[h=1]Titus 3:5English Standard Version (ESV)[/h] [SUP]5 [/SUP]he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,


[h=1]Titus 3:5New Living Translation (NLT)[/h] [SUP]5 [/SUP]he saved us, not because of the righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He washed away our sins, giving us a new birth and new life through the Holy Spirit.[SUP][a][/SUP]
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
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#27
Care to comment?...

..who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began, ESV (2Tim 1:9)

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, KJV
(2Ti 1:9)

[For it is He] Who delivered and saved us and called us with a calling in itself holy and leading to holiness [to a life of consecration, a vocation of holiness]; [He did it] not because of anything of merit that we have done, but because of and to further His own purpose and grace (unmerited favor) which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began [eternal ages ago]. AMP (2Tim 1:9)
2 Tim 1:8-10
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
KJV

It seems to me that when we view ourselves as the Lord's property instead of viewing ourselves as having rights and entitlements; it becomes easier and more logical to submit ourselves to the difficulties and indignities of servanthood.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
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#28
2Ti 1:9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,



Regarding "with a holy calling"...it appears to be a calling of separation unto Himself.

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Rom 8:30) also v.28

2Th 2:13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
2Th 2:14 To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Heb 3:1 Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession,

But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace,
(Gal 1:15)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
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#29
2 Tim 1:8-10
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
KJV

It seems to me that when we view ourselves as the Lord's property instead of viewing ourselves as having rights and entitlements; it becomes easier and more logical to submit ourselves to the difficulties and indignities of servanthood.
That fits in nicely with...

For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God. For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps.
(1Pe 2:20-21)
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
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#30
Self works without God's works is vain. A faith that isn't accompanied by works is just as dead as works that isn't accompanied by faith. God's way involves 2 things (faith and works), and our own isolated way involves only 1 thing (works) all by itself.
The verse says NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS, He has saved AND called us ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSE AND GRACE.
Why do you introduce our works of any kind into that verse?
Grace is the only thing that saves us.

Works are an indicator of whether we have truly accepted that or not.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
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#31
Grace is the only thing that saves us.

Works are an indicator of whether we have truly accepted that or not.
We know that, but since works is not a subject of the text, I'm trying to steer clear of the grace/works debate and concentrate on just what the text is saying. (I know that's quite a feat here on CC :p )
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,066
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#32
.
For some reason, it brings to mind this Scripture:


I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is
still to come. I say, 'My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.'
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#33
2Ti 1:9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,



Regarding "with a holy calling"...it appears to be a calling of separation unto Himself.

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Rom 8:30) also v.28

2Th 2:13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
2Th 2:14 To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Heb 3:1 Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession,

But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace,
(Gal 1:15)
John 6: [SUP]37 [/SUP]All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. [SUP]38 [/SUP]For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. [SUP]39 [/SUP]This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. [SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
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#34
One who saved us and divinely summoned us in the sphere of a holy summons, not according to our works but according to His own private purpose and grace which [grace] was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, (Wuest)

saved us and ·made us his holy people [called us to a holy calling]. That was not because of anything we did ourselves but because of ·God's [his own] purpose and grace. That grace was given to us through Christ Jesus before ·time began [eternal times], (Expanded Bible)
 
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KennethC

Guest
#35
Care to comment?...

..who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began, ESV (2Tim 1:9)

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, KJV
(2Ti 1:9)

[For it is He] Who delivered and saved us and called us with a calling in itself holy and leading to holiness [to a life of consecration, a vocation of holiness]; [He did it] not because of anything of merit that we have done, but because of and to further His own purpose and grace (unmerited favor) which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began [eternal ages ago]. AMP (2Tim 1:9)

This passage is about our calling in the faith that we are to abide by, as we no longer live by our own doing, but we live by how and what He has told us to live.

We walk by His righteousness (teachings and commands) and not our own righteousness.

Apostle Paul goes on in chapter 2 showing that we are to be diligent to make ourselves approved to God (vs. 15), and that we are to depart from iniquity (sinful ways). Chapter 3 then goes into apostasy of the church in the last days, of showing those who claim to be believers in Christ but deny the power thereof to continue to live in sinful lifestyles !!!
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#36
I almost liked your post until I read your question. Then I knew I had to quote scripture to answer it so God answers you instead of me.
James chapter 2 is a major stumbling block for works salvationists.

James 2:14-26
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
In James 2:14, we read of one who says-claims he has faith but has no works. Where is the evidence? This is not genuine faith, but a dead faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith. Works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of saving faith in Christ, but they not the actual cause of our salvation. James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
We show our faith by our works, but we do not establish it.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Nobody is questioning the fact that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. I believe "mental assent" that George Washington existed and I also believe in the historical facts about George Washington, but I am not trusting in him to save my soul. See the difference? Saving belief/faith is more than just an "intellectual acknowledgment" to the existence and historical facts about Christ. Saving belief/faith is a complete trust in Christ's finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (Romans 1:16; Ephesians 2:8,9).

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
This is not genuine faith, but an empty profession of faith, a dead faith. Living faith results in producing good works (Ephesians 2:5-10).

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. No! The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save his soul, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works, "shown to be righteous."

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean he was finally saved based on his works many years later. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
The scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous because of his faith (Genesis 15:6) long before he offered up Isaac on the alter and demonstrated the reality of his faith in Genesis 22.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Rahab believed in the Lord with genuine faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested kindness (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the scarlet line (2:21), as the demonstration of her faith. She showed her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all true believers show theirs.

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
The comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek-pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not the works; rather, the life in faith is the source of the works.

We are to compare spiritual with spiritual to find the whole truth, and not be satisfied with only half of it by man's own wisdom. GBU in His wisdom.
We are to properly harmonize scripture with scripture to get the whole truth. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9); yet genuine faith is shown/evidenced by works (James 2:14-26). Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony.*

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 1 Corinthians 2:13
1 Corinthians 2:14 - But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#37
This passage is about our calling in the faith that we are to abide by, as we no longer live by our own doing, but we live by how and what He has told us to live.

We walk by His righteousness (teachings and commands) and not our own righteousness.

Apostle Paul goes on in chapter 2 showing that we are to be diligent to make ourselves approved to God (vs. 15), and that we are to depart from iniquity (sinful ways). Chapter 3 then goes into apostasy of the church in the last days, of showing those who claim to be believers in Christ but deny the power thereof to continue to live in sinful lifestyles !!!
ie, Paul agreed with james If we CLAIM to have faith, but only mental agreement, we are not saved, have never been saved, and will not be saved until we repent, and come to true faith.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#38
Oh well, I tried. The legalists have suceeded in derailing with their law bait.
 
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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#39
Oh well, I tried. The legalists have suceeded with their law bait.
The "whole picture" rests on "cause and effect." Do we do good works TO QUALIFY for God's grace? Or is God's grace a free gift received through faith which then consequently leads TO good works? (Ephesians 2:8-10). Do we do good works because of faith, or is our faith caused by good works? Which is cause and which is effect?
 
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KennethC

Guest
#40


First things might get a less heated if some would stop saying this on others, "saved by works."

Nobody is teaching such a thing and this false accusation is the first thing that needs to be stopped !!!