Faith Comes by Hearing, but Obedience Comes From Fear

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T

Tan

Guest
#1
Brothers and Sisters when we read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation the Lord is telling man the same thing, and that is to stop transgressing his laws. From Adam until today man continues to transgress the Lord’ laws and Pastors today teach that the Lord’s laws (commandments) are nail to the cross. When in fact Jesus made is clear when he said,” Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-19)

Now, if the Jesus said
think not that I came to destroy the law, let us reason together, what do destroy mean; to take away, etc, right. So that simply means that the law is still on the table and the prophets. Jesus could not destroy the prophet because he had to fulfill all of what the prophets wrote, and not all is fulfilled. Think about it, there are other things Jesus have to fulfill when he makes his second coming. Lets take a look something Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. Now, the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus (Acts1:36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. Let’s take a quick look…For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrews 10:26, 27)
 
T

Tan

Guest
#2
When people read verses that talks about willful sin and fiery indignation, its hard for people to understand the Lord (Jesus) will put you in the lake of fire because of disobedience. Now lets take a look at some verses by the mouth of Jesus that people skip over when reading the Bible. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.

49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord. (Matthew 13: 47-51) People have to understand what righteous in God’s eyes and what’s not. Brothers and Sisters you cannot go around trying to make your brand of what’s right and wrong. In the scriptures its written...Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil. (Proverbs 3: 5-7)
 

PopClick

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2011
4,056
136
63
#3
Obedience can come from more than fear. Jesus said:

"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#4
Obedience is the result of one's love and reverence for God.
 
P

psychomom

Guest
#5
My obedience to God is a work of grace.
He called me, He made me know He is, He saved me, He filled me,
and He causes me to walk in His ways.

:)

 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#6
And that's why women should be allowed to speak in church. LOL

Good job, girls...
 
H

haz

Guest
#7
Lets take a look something Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. Now, the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus (Acts1:36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. Let’s take a quick look…For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrews 10:26, 27)
Hi Tan,

You're correct that Rom 3:25 says that only past
sin was dealt with on the cross.
But you contradict this by saying "you will sin again"
. How can a Christian be charged with "sin" again? Christians have "ceased from sin" (1Pet 4:1) and "cannot sin" (1John 3:9). Being in Christ "who can lay anything to the charge of God's elect? It is God who justifies", Rom 8:33

The only way a Christian can "sin" is to turn back to self-righteousness by obedience/works of the law (which is unbelief). And to rebuild this method of righteousness is to make yourself a transgressor (sinner), as Gal 2:18 says. Because what the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.

And this is what Heb 10:26,27 refers to. To sin willfully is to continue under the law (10 commandments) establishing righteousness by obedience/works of the law. Anyone who willfully continues to do this after having the knowledge of the truth (saved by grace) will face
"judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries"
 
D

Disdame45

Guest
#8
Perhaps this is too simplistic, but when Jesus saved the woman caught in adultery from death by stoning, He told her that He didn't condemn her, (for He didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it), BUT He also said, 'Go, and sin no more!'

So what is sin? Sin, according to various scriptures, is a transgression of the Law. Simply put.

Do you think, that after being caught in adultery and being forgiven for it, that woman went back and still committed adultery?... The Bible doesn't give us the details, but I believe that Jesus made an impact on that woman's life that day. I believe that because she loved that Jesus rescued her from a fate of death, she willingly went away and sinned no more. (He who is forgiven much, loves much.)

If it weren't possible to fall back into sin, we wouldn't have verses like Jesus telling the woman to go and sin no more.

Let's talk briefly about some of the ten commandments that God first wrote on stone, then on our hearts... If God is the same yesterday, today and forever, that would mean His law is still important. His word is still important. This is what got mankind into trouble to begin with, choosing to believe the words of the lying serpent rather than the truth of God. This was sin. Disobedience. Not obeying God's Word. And back then, it was just one command.

Now, we are quibbling over 10 commandments. Ok, so, if we love God with all of our heart, mind and soul... we will obey Him. Just as Jesus said, 'If you love Me, you will obey my commandments.' And they are not burdensome. By loving God, we fulfill the first four commandments that pertain to how we worship Him. If we love our neighbor as our self, we are fulfilling the last six commandments.

If you love God, you will not have any other gods besides Him.
If you love God, you will not make any kind of idol and worship it.
If you love God, you will not take His name in vain.
If you love God, you will acknowledge that He created the world in 6 days and rested on the seventh. You will set that day aside as He did and call it holy and rest. (It's a shame that many today in the world do not even acknowledge that a creator exists.) God told us with this one that we need to 'remember' the Sabbath and keep it holy. It's about Him being our creator... why not remember that????
If you love your neighbor as your self... you will honor your parents
If you love your neighbor as your self... you will not murder people - Jesus went even further and said to not even hate them in your heart
If you love your neighbor as your self... you will not steal from other people.
If you love your neighbor as your self... you will not committ adultery with someone else's spouse - again, don't even have lustful ideas in your mind
If you love your neighbor as your self... you will not bear false witness against your neighbor - lie about someone
If you love your neighbor as your self... you will be satisfied with what God gave you and not even want what others have (covet), because all kinds of evil rises up when we begin to covet and be envious.

You get the point. Ok.. so skipping ahead to Revelation... There are a couple of verses that state that the saints will be those who obey God's commandments AND have the faith of Jesus Christ.
It also mentions that people who sin, like murderers, robbers, fornicators and people who love and practises a lie, will NOT be found in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Just as Paul and Jesus said... Love fulfills the Law. If we are truly in Christ, worshipping in Spirit and in Truth, we will be obedient to His will, for it is His Spirit that guides us.

God's law of love is wonderful and a delight. Who wouldn't want to live in a world that is free of sin? Free of murder, fornication, theft and lies? I'd like that very much. I praise Him that He is bringing us to perfection through His Spirit.
 
T

Tan

Guest
#9
Obedience can come from more than fear. Jesus said:

"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."
Thats correct, thats the good side, but the flip side is what Jesus said in Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, fear him.
 
T

Tan

Guest
#10
Obedience is the result of one's love and reverence for God.
Lets go into Acts 10: 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) Its a reason why its written all over the BIble to fear God!
 
T

Tan

Guest
#11
My obedience to God is a work of grace.
He called me, He made me know He is, He saved me, He filled me,
and He causes me to walk in His ways.

:)

Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.
 
P

psychomom

Guest
#12
Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.
If you think 'grace is nothing more than a free gift', you do not understand God's grace!

Are you completely without sin?
Have you committed absolutely no sin, in word, deed and thought since you received this gift, this 'mere' gift of grace?
Because you are right...it's what God thinks that counts.
 
T

Tan

Guest
#13
Hi Tan,

You're correct that Rom 3:25 says that only past sin was dealt with on the cross.
But you contradict this by saying "you will sin again". How can a Christian be charged with "sin" again? Christians have "ceased from sin" (1Pet 4:1) and "cannot sin" (1John 3:9). Being in Christ "who can lay anything to the charge of God's elect? It is God who justifies", Rom 8:33

The only way a Christian can "sin" is to turn back to self-righteousness by obedience/works of the law (which is unbelief). And to rebuild this method of righteousness is to make yourself a transgressor (sinner), as Gal 2:18 says. Because what the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.

And this is what Heb 10:26,27 refers to. To sin willfully is to continue under the law (10 commandments) establishing righteousness by obedience/works of the law. Anyone who willfully continues to do this after having the knowledge of the truth (saved by grace) will face
"judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries"



But you contradict this by saying "you will sin again".
I understand why you miss understood that. Understand that it is the wilful sin that get us in trouble. Remember Paul said in Romans 7: 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

These are the situations people go through in this word of GOd, but keep in mind this is after one who have been baptize in the name of Jesus, that keeps the laws (commandments) stautes and Judgements. After a person been baptize, they are clean for the first time in their life, they pass sin are erase, now they have to stay clean or keep from sinning wilfully. MIstake are going to happen, people will sin out of ignorants, this is a little example of Paul letting us know how evil is present among us, but once again it is the wilful Sin!
 
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
128
0
71
#14
I suppose obedience does come from fear, in the beginning, but it SHOULD come from love.
 
P

psychomom

Guest
#15
I suppose obedience does come from fear, in the beginning, but it SHOULD come from love.
Just as my children, when they were very little, obeyed their dad and me from fear of consequences, so are we often, when we first begin to walk with God.
But then, just as you say, our children grew up a little,
and learned that their dad and I love them dearly,
and have their very best interests at heart. :)

Then they learned that even when the consequences had to be there,
it was all from our love, and they began to obey from love.
Just as you say! :)

-ellie
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#16
Lets go into Acts 10: 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) Its a reason why its written all over the BIble to fear God!
Fear in that passage denotes reverence.
Obedience should spring from faith and a heartfelt admiration for God.
There is no need to be afraid of your Heavenly Father.;)
 
T

Tan

Guest
#17
If you think 'grace is nothing more than a free gift', you do not understand God's grace!

Are you completely without sin?
Have you committed absolutely no sin, in word, deed and thought since you received this gift, this 'mere' gift of grace?
Because you are right...it's what God thinks that counts.

If you think 'grace is nothing more than a free gift', you do not understand God's grace!

Paul said in Romans 3: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

These verses maybe hard for you to understand, or you probably never read or understood this. Paul is saying in other words, we all came up short, know one is really clean enough for the the Lord's grace, thats why grace is a free gift.







 
T

Tan

Guest
#18
I suppose obedience does come from fear, in the beginning, but it SHOULD come from love.

Sometimes it works the other way around. Lets take a look at something Paul said in 1Timothy 8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
 
P

psychomom

Guest
#19



Paul said in Romans 3: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

These verses maybe hard for you to understand, or you probably never read or understood this. If you say so....

Paul is saying in other words, we all came up short, know one is really clean enough for the the Lord's grace, thats why grace is a free gift. Yes, indeed! :)

If your obedience comes from fear, I don't mean to condemn that.
Obeying the Lord is good! :)

But there is growing, and understanding that there is absolutely nothing we can do
that can make us righteous in the Father's eyes
other than accept this gift of grace, and receive the righteousness of Christ. ♥

Nothing less can make us stand before the Father. :)
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#20



Paul said in Romans 3: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

These verses maybe hard for you to understand, or you probably never read or understood this. Paul is saying in other words, we all came up short, know one is really clean enough for the the Lord's grace, thats why grace is a free gift.









I think the grace some of us talk about is the word charis=divine influence
So what you are saying about coming up short or not clean enuf for Gods grace doesnt make sense. duh?

And you say thats why grace is a free gift. Maybe you mean thats why justification is a free gift.
Or salvation is a free gift. Your sure not making sense to me.
 
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