Faith Comes by Hearing, but Obedience Comes From Fear

[Ariel82]

I really dislike the way you pull verses out of context and try to get them to say what you want them to say. sometimes all it takes to understand God's meaning is to keep reading the chapter....

of Life (Jesus). Paul said this in Roman 5: 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Snackersmom]

Those who obey out of fear are certainly better off than if they were being disobedient, but I'd SO much rather my obedience came from love than fear......it just makes for a better relationship, ya know?

 

[intercessorginger]

Faith comes by hearing the word of God. Obedience comes from Love!

 

[haz]

When I teach the Bible

It's the anointing (Christ in us) that teaches us, so we have no need that any man teach us, 1John 2:27.

It's best we just share on God's word and He will give the understanding to those who have the mind of Christ (1Cor 2:13-16).

Let go into

(Romans 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET. Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law. (v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy.

Because there is a better much more glorious ministry for us.
2Cor 3:7-

But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done awaywas glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious


Gal 3:24,25
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


This is why the law has been "done away" with. We are "no longer" under it.

(Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

If there is no law there is no sin. Which mean we can do as we please when we please!

This is the usual argument put forward by those who are under the law for righteousness and thereby refusing to submit to the righteousness of God.
The reality is that God is working in our lives. He disciplines us should we do wrong.
But our physical behavior is not what determines our righteousness.
Our righteousness is by faith, Rom 4:5.

 

[Blain]

It's the anointing (Christ in us) that teaches us, so we have no need that any man teach us, 1John 2:27.

It's best we just share on God's word and He will give the understanding to those who have the mind of Christ (1Cor 2:13-16).



Because there is a better much more glorious ministry for us.
2Cor 3:7-

But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done awaywas glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious


Gal 3:24,25
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


This is why the law has been "done away" with. We are "no longer" under it.




This is the usual argument put forward by those who are under the law for righteousness and thereby refusing to submit to the righteousness of God.
The reality is that God is working in our lives. He disciplines us should we do wrong.
But our physical behavior is not what determines our righteousness.
Our righteousness is by faith, Rom 4:5.

perfectly said haz:] tan the pharesee's thought they were rightious men because they extensively studied and obeyed the law, however inside they were cold snakes because they thought so high of themseves and didn't know god at all. obeying the law does not make one right with god, it's really a question of why you obey it isn it? i try to obey it to please god because i love him, obeying him out of fear doesn't mean the literal fear but respect and love.

 

[haz]

perfectly said haz:] tan the pharesee's thought they were rightious men because they extensively studied and obeyed the law, however inside they were cold snakes because they thought so high of themseves and didn't know god at all. obeying the law does not make one right with god, it's really a question of why you obey it isn it? i try to obey it to please god because i love him, obeying him out of fear doesn't mean the literal fear but respect and love.

Hi Blain,

A Christian's behavior often improves as they grow in Christ. God's the only one that can make positive changes in us. As we grow as Christian's our trust in God becomes such that we don't want or need to do wrong. This is not to say we develop perfect behavior in the physical, as some here claim.

Scripture says godliness with contentment is great gain. So trusting in God we are content where we are knowing that that is where God wants us at this time. Often it can take us quite some time before we totally realize we can trust God in this.

Christians will all be a different stages of growth. And some grow faster than others. But God is working in each one's lives for their good.

But our righteousness is not determined by our physical behavior (perfect obedience to the law), as the likes of Tan would want us to believe.

 

[Tan]

I really dislike the way you pull verses out of context and try to get them to say what you want them to say. sometimes all it takes to understand God's meaning is to keep reading the chapter....



13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I really dislike the way you pull verses out of context and try to get them to say what you want them to say. sometimes all it takes to understand God's meaning is to keep reading the chapter....

I didn't pull any verses out of contexts, what is it that you don't understand that I said? Posting all the verses didn't prove that I said anything wrong, or out of context, it something you don't understand!

 

[Tan]

It's the anointing (Christ in us) that teaches us, so we have no need that any man teach us, 1John 2:27.

It's best we just share on God's word and He will give the understanding to those who have the mind of Christ (1Cor 2:13-16).



Because there is a better much more glorious ministry for us.
2Cor 3:7-

But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done awaywas glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious


Gal 3:24,25
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


This is why the law has been "done away" with. We are "no longer" under it.




This is the usual argument put forward by those who are under the law for righteousness and thereby refusing to submit to the righteousness of God.
The reality is that God is working in our lives. He disciplines us should we do wrong.
But our physical behavior is not what determines our righteousness.
Our righteousness is by faith, Rom 4:5.




[/quote


Amazing, how you post Paul against himself, you can not do this. What I post was concrete, you can't find verses in the BIble written by Paul to overturn Paul. Those verses you post means something else. Didn't Paul say in Romans 6: 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Once again it sounds like Sunday doctrine!

Jesus said in (Mat.7:21) “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven”. For students to succeed in school, students learn to follow their teachers' instructions, and learn their lessons carefully. But few apply this method when they are dealing with the word of God. Is Jesus your Lord? Then why don’t you do the things he says. (Luke 6:46) “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say”? He told people plainly: in (Ex 20:8-10) (v.8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (v.9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: (v.10) “But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God”.

Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! People are either uninformed about which day is the Sabbath day of the God of the Bible or they are just following the tradition of religion that was passed down through the family or maybe they have let some preacher give them other excuses for ignoring God’s true day of worship.

 

[haz]

Jesus said in (Mat.7:21) “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven”.

And what is the will of God?
John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

This is what the thief on the cross, who called Jesus "Lord", did. There was no obedience/works of he law involved. It was grace alone.

Then why don’t you do the things he says. (Luke 6:46) “

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say”?

Tan, it is you who are not doing the things which Jesus said. Many here have tried to show this to you.
You judge righteousness/salvation by works of the law/commandments instead of by faith.

 

[Blain]

didn't the bible say faith is not measured by works? obeying the commandment out of fear of the consequences means nothing doesn't it matter more to god if we obey because we love him?

 

[Tan]

And what is the will of God?
John 6:40[/color][/size][/font][/size]
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

This is what the thief on the cross, who called Jesus "Lord", did. There was no obedience/works of he law involved. It was grace alone.



Tan, it is you who are not doing the things which Jesus said. Many here have tried to show this to you.
You judge righteousness/salvation by works of the law/commandments instead of by faith.

Jesus said in Matthew 19: 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself

No matter what you read in the BIble, you cannot overturn these verses, by the mouth of Jesus, you just cannot. Paul cannot over turn these verses. No Prophet or Apostles can overturn these verses, so what ever else you read in the Bible that talks about a law, then it is something else, a another law.

The royal laws (Ten Commandments) are forever. Plant that in your head, so when you read about another law or deed you do not get confuse. By the way keeping the commandment consists of the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week (Saturday). Jesus Christ (John 1:1-3, 10-14) is the one who rested on the Sabbath day and commanded that you do the same. If you really understood the scriptures, you would realize that He was the one who became known as Jesus who gave you the Ten Commandments. So not only did He command you to cease from your work on that day He also commanded you to. (Lev.23:3) “Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation;” He said on the Sabbath day that you should also have an holy convocation, which means holy gathering or simply put, go to church. Jesus made it clear that the seventh day was made for mankind. (Mark 2:27-28) (v.27) And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: Do we understand that, the Sabbath was made for us, not us for the Sabbath. (v.28) Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath. The Son of man (Jesus) is the Lord God of the seventh day Sabbath (Saturday).

 

[Tan]

didn't the bible say faith is not measured by works? obeying the commandment out of fear of the consequences means nothing doesn't it matter more to god if we obey because we love him?

Lets go into (James 2:14-18, 20-26) (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem. (v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Did you know that? Has anybody ever read this verse to you? How can you, after reading this verse ever say again that we need not work? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead

 

[Blain]

Lets go into (James 2:14-18, 20-26) (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem. (v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Did you know that? Has anybody ever read this verse to you? How can you, after reading this verse ever say again that we need not work? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead

But jesus also said doing works without love is meaningless which brings us back to obeying the commandments out of love not fear. Also god says to fear thy lord but he isn't talking about the fear you describe he is saying respect not to be afraid of him. he is a god of love and peace and it seems you have yet to learn this. i am just a babe and even i know this because i know him. i have searched his heart and i am so happy that i can go deeper because his love is never ending so i can continue to endlessly search his heart.

 

[haz]

Jesus said in Matthew 19: 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself

No matter what you read in the BIble, you cannot overturn these verses, by the mouth of Jesus, you just cannot. Paul cannot over turn these verses. No Prophet or Apostles can overturn these verses, so what ever else you read in the Bible that talks about a law, then it is something else, a another law.

Hi Tan,

You only quote part of Matt 19 and leave the most important part out.

Matt 19:20,21
The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”


That young man kept the law (just as your doctrine demands) and note how even he realized he still lacked.
And note Jesus' response. If you want to be perfect, give up all and come, follow Me.


Matt 19:16-21 reveals the 2 different covenants.
Righteousness by works of the law or righteousness by faith.


When we believe/follow Jesus we are perfected by his one offering (Heb 10:14).



As for the law/commandments that you preach, note 1Tim 1:8
we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully


How is the law to be used/obeyed?
James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.


So if the law is applied then perfect obedience is required for righteousness.
Hence my question to you is, after you received Christ did you immediately obey the law/commandments perfectly?

 

[loveme1]

Love indeed Love..

1 John 4

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 14And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

15Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. 16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 17Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19We love him, because he first loved us. 20If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 21And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

 

[haz]

Lets go into (James 2:14-18, 20-26) (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem. (v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Did you know that? Has anybody ever read this verse to you? How can you, after reading this verse ever say again that we need not work? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead

And what are our works? Jesus was asked this in John 6:29. He answered:
Believe on him whom he hath sent.

As for whether the law/commandments count as works, lets see what scriptures say.
Rom 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Rom 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" showed his faith by his works of believing on Jesus. There were absolutely no works of the law involved in the salvation of that thief.

Hence we see that those preaching that righteousness/salvation is proved by obedience/works of the law/commandments, they are in fact showing by their works that their faith is dead, being alone. They do not believe in Jesus. Instead of being righteous through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith, they instead establish their own righteousness by works of the law. They refuse to accept that Christ cleansed them and made them holy and righteous through his one offering.

 

[loveme1]

Romans 4

4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:

20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

It is better to read it all but to show you what you will find ahead i will post it here in hope you may stop taking a line here and a line there but accept it all.

Romans 6

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[haz]

Romans 4
It is better to read it all but to show you what you will find ahead i will post it here in hope you may stop taking a line here and a line there but accept it all.
Romans 6

I am aware of whats ahead. We obviously differ on understanding of it though.

You referred to Rom 6.
What obedience do you think it speaks of?
Do you believe you've been made free from sin?
How were you made free from sin?
Have you sinned since receiving Christ?
What is the fruit unto holiness?
Are you holy?

 

[Blain]

to love is to obey, to obey is to follow, to follow is to believe and to believe is to trust. why is it so hard to accept that we are not condemed if we have trouble following the commandments? can anyone of us say we do not break even one of these ten laws? besides how are we to be rightious without faith in jesus when he was the first who was rightous. before he died on the cross we were to be pitied for we even the ones who followed the law were still sinners and not rightious. Tan if you don't accept god's grace you will never be free. you will trap yourself under the law. even i do not understand his grace, all i know is who he is.

 

[Tan]

But jesus also said doing works without love is meaningless which brings us back to obeying the commandments out of love not fear. Also god says to fear thy lord but he isn't talking about the fear you describe he is saying respect not to be afraid of him. he is a god of love and peace and it seems you have yet to learn this. i am just a babe and even i know this because i know him. i have searched his heart and i am so happy that i can go deeper because his love is never ending so i can continue to endlessly search his heart.

Jesus said in John 14: 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. Theres a flip side to this. Jesus also said in Matthew10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Lets go into Matthew and take a look at a parable Jesus gave starting with verse 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Now lets take a look at whats righteousness to the Lord. Lets go into Psalm In the scriptures its written in Psalm 19: The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether