Faith Comes by Hearing, but Obedience Comes From Fear

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A

Abiding

Guest
#21
If God gives grace. His very own help and influence for
sanctification, isnt putting fear into it just a stumblingblock?
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#22
Grace taught my heart to fear and Grace my fears relieved.
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#23
I think the grace some of us talk about is the word charis=divine influence
So what you are saying about coming up short or not clean enuf for Gods grace doesnt make sense. duh?

And you say thats why grace is a free gift. Maybe you mean thats why justification is a free gift.
Or salvation is a free gift. Your sure not making sense to me.
The Spirit of grace IS the 'free gift.'
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#24
The Spirit of grace IS the 'free gift.'
Im afraid its much more than that and thats where the bad
theology comes from.

Imagine Paul with a proceeding chapter of woes and even
a special thorn in the flesh from satan to buffet him prays three
times and God says:

My free gift is sufficient.


When your weak think about that free gift bud.

Pauls say thanks God from now
on when i cant cope ill just remember that free gift.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#25
If God gives grace. His very own help and influence for
sanctification, isnt putting fear into it just a stumblingblock?
John 6
Jesus Walks on Water

16When evening came, his disciples went down to the sea, 17got into a boat, and started across the sea to Capernaum. It was now dark, and Jesus had not yet come to them. 18The sea became rough because a strong wind was blowing. 19When they had rowed about three or four miles,b they saw Jesus walking on the sea and coming near the boat, and they were frightened. 20But he said to them, “It is I; do not be afraid.” 21Then they were glad to take him into the boat, and immediately the boat was at the land to which they were going.
 
T

Tan

Guest
#26
Jesus said in Matthew 19: 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Now we have to keep in mind that the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week is included in the commandments as well, not Sunday the first day of the week.
In this day in age, people will find some reason or excuse and say, that after the death of Jesus, these commandments got nail to the cross. Now there was a law that got nail to the cross but it was not the Commandments! The sad thing about this is that they will run to Paul’s writing to take the commandments (law) off the table, as if Paul is greater then Jesus! Let us see if Paul is saying something different then Jesus. Now look at these verses in the Book of Romans. Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. (Romans 13:8-10)

Take heed to what Paul says, "love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore, love (which is charity) is the fulfilling of the law. Paul says, "If you LOVE your neighbor you will not, commit adultery, kill, steal, bear false witness nor covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Once again, Paul is quoting from the books Moses! In fact, Paul was quoting the Lord God; remember the Lord gave the Laws to Moses.

Take a look. Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house; thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's. (Exodus 20:13-17)
As I mention before, the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week is included in these commandments as well, not the first day (Sunday), the seventh day (Saturday).
 
T

Tan

Guest
#27
Jesus said clearly in (Matt. 7:21-23) (v.21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven. You mean you must do more than call on the name of the Lord to enter into the kingdom of heaven? (Which will be set up on this earth)? (v.22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? (v.23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Now this is not the harlot, the thief, or the murder, these are religious people; some had the power to cast out devils. And what did they put before the Lord? Their works! It’s obvious that their iniquity overrode their wonderful works. But they put their works on the table before the Lord, that’s what you are going to be judged by, your works!

It’s easy for people to say how much they love the Lord, they may be able to deceive man, but God knows the mind. Many profess they know God, but in their works they deny him everyday. Paul said in (Titus 1:16) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him; being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Yea, most people are talking about how they know God with their lips, but by they works they are doing something totally different. The Lord God commanded you to remember the Sabbath day (which is the seventh day of the week) to keep it holy and people deny him to his face by saying “I go to church on Sunday (the first day of the week) because Paul broke bread on Sunday”.

Now lets take a look at the Biblical definition of Sin in (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.)
 
T

Tan

Guest
#28
Over the years many have taught various ways to receive everlasting life. No wonder the world is full of so many denominations. All of these different doctrines, seemingly coming from the bible, tend only to confuse people. Most people don't know what to believe and simply choose not to attend any church. Nevertheless, the bible speaks of only one way to get eternal salvation. "One Lord, one faith, one baptism" (Ephesians 4:5). The next time someone asks you what faith you are, tell them there's only one faith. The road to eternal salvation starts with knowledge of the Holy Scriptures. God doesn't want us to memorize two or three verses, but instead he left the entire bible so we can learn how to get salvation. If we learn it, believe it and obey it (the bible), salvation will be our reward. Before you can start any task you must first know about it and without the key of knowledge we are lost. "...thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make the wise unto salvation..." (II Timothy 4:15). However, with all the various doctrines (teachings) it's hard to know which road to take. Many claim that it really doesn't matter saying, "you serve God your way and I'll serve God my way." Since the Lord is the author of eternal salvation we can only obtain it by serving him his way (Hebrews 5:9). Some choose to rely on the wisdom of their pastor by putting his word above God's word. Nevertheless, in judgment each one of us will give account for our own salvation. Therefore, we must not let anyone lead us down the wrong path, but should verify all of our teaching with the holy bible. YOUR SALVATION IS AT STAKE! "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12). Jesus warned us that the road to salvation is straight and narrow and that only a few of us will find it. Many are traveling down the wrong road, which leads to destruction. This is because many of us have heard about salvation but few of us want to do what is necessary to get salvation (many are called but few are chosen). Many contend that Jesus did it all and now all we have to do is have faith. The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD"(James 2:20).
 
T

Tan

Guest
#29
"Hear the word of the Lord, ye children of Israel: For the Lord hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land." (Hosea 4:1)

Due to this lack of knowledge, man is on the brink of destruction, because of his transgression against God. The ability to think, and to know good from evil is the only thing that separates man from beast. Man has taken this gift from God for granted, and has chosen evil over good.

Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. For it is the day of the LORD’S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.(Isaiah 34: 1-4,8)


Pay Attention!!!....People! This time is coming up!






 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#30
And that's why women should be allowed to speak in church. LOL

Good job, girls...


Amen Grandpa, I just read today in Joel 2,

The Promise of the Spirit

28 “It will come about after this
That I will pour out My Spirit on all ]mankind;
And your sons and daughters will prophesy,
Your old men will dream dreams,
Your young men will see visions.
29 “Even on the male and female servants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#31
"Faith Comes by Hearing, but Obedience Comes From Fear"

???

Faith is a gift from God.

Obedience comes from Heavenly wisdom and love of God's laws NOT fear of punishment

for perfect love cast out fear. because God gave us NOT a spirit of Fear but of love, power and a sound mind.

2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.

need to go pray... nit..
 
T

Tan

Guest
#32
"Faith Comes by Hearing, but Obedience Comes From Fear"

???

Faith is a gift from God.

Obedience comes from Heavenly wisdom and love of God's laws NOT fear of punishment

for perfect love cast out fear. because God gave us NOT a spirit of Fear but of love, power and a sound mind.

2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.

need to go pray... nit..



Faith is a gift from God.


Faith is not a gift from God, Grace is! Lets go into Hebrews 1: Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Read the whole chapter and you will see that people in this chapter believe in God and suffer different situation in life...it was not gift!




Obedience comes from Heavenly wisdom and love of God's laws NOT fear of punishment

Lets go into the future in Isaiah 66: 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.


Now we see how the Lord deal with people who transgress against him. I understand that you are not taught the uncut word of God, so go to all the comfortable verses in the BIble that looks like Jesus love everybody and everyone is save and theres no need to fear GOd. But thats not the case! Paul said in Romans 6: 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


for perfect love cast out fear. because God gave us NOT a spirit of Fear but of love, power and a sound mind.

2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.

need to go pray... nit..

These verses are good for those that keep the law (commandments) and who is obedient over all. Like I said before I understand your mind set, quoting a few verses to support good feeling, not understanding the reasoning. Theres no fear in God if one is obedient, but if on is disobedient there is much to fear! Paul said in Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God If we go back to Isaiah 66 we see why!

Now, Paul said in Ephesians 6:5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;


Revelation 15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest

Once again, we read who shall fear the Lord in Isaiah 66, why? Because (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.)
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#33
Faith is not a gift from God, Grace is! Lets go into Hebrews 1: Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Read the whole chapter and you will see that people in this chapter believe in God and suffer different situation in life...it was not gift!
mmm yeah Faith is a gift from God but not really the point. i'll look up the verse in a minute to give you if you like...saw it posted just today in another thread in this forum.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

Now we see how the Lord deal with people who transgress against him. I understand that you are not taught the uncut word of God, so go to all the comfortable verses in the BIble that looks like Jesus love everybody and everyone is save and theres no need to fear GOd. But thats not the case! Paul said in Romans 6: 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
presumptious of you eh? you have no clue what I have been taught or why. You obviously need to read your Bible some more and pray since you missed the above verse about how Faith is a GIFT from God.


These verses are good for those that keep the law (commandments) and who is obedient over all. Like I said before I understand your mind set, quoting a few verses to support good feeling, not understanding the reasoning. Theres no fear in God if one is obedient, but if on is disobedient there is much to fear!
so why beat the sheep? why assume people will try and be disobedient?

perhaps you should read the verses more closely and figure out why you are so afraid?

do you truly understand God's love and how it is NOT like the world's love?

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.

John 14:27
Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

I understand why the world has to fear and why those who are wicked should repent of their ways and find God but they do not obey God out of fear, they rebel more. People of God obey Him out of love and the peace He has given them. they do as HE has shown them by loving others and helping widows and orphans. they do it out of love not fear.

at least the brethren God has blessed me with placing in my life do it out of love and not fear. I'll pray you will meet some people who follow God's laws out of love and the peace He has given them.
 
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T

Tan

Guest
#34
mmm yeah Faith is a gift from God but not really the point. i'll look up the verse in a minute to give you if you like...saw it posted just today in another thread in this forum.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

presumptious of you eh? you have no clue what I have been taught or why. You obviously need to read your Bible some more and pray since you missed the above verse about how Faith is a GIFT from God.


so why beat the sheep? why assume people will try and be disobedient?

perhaps you should read the verses more closely and figure out why you are so afraid?

do you truly understand God's love and how it is NOT like the world's love?

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.

John 14:27
Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

I understand why the world has to fear and why those who are wicked should repent of their ways and find God but they do not obey God out of fear, they rebel more. People of God obey Him out of love and the peace He has given them. they do as HE has shown them by loving others and helping widows and orphans. they do it out of love not fear.

at least the brethren God has blessed me with placing in my life do it out of love and not fear. I'll pray you will meet some people who follow God's laws out of love and the peace He has given them.



Thank for replying to the post I appreciate your commets. I see that spirit that thats on you, its not to humble at all, I don't want to entertain it.
 
H

haz

Guest
#35
Lets go into the future in Isaiah 66: 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Now we see how the Lord deal with people who transgress against him.... Paul said in Romans 6: 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Theres no fear in God if one is obedient, but if on is disobedient there is much to fear! Paul said in Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God If we go back to Isaiah 66 we see why!

Now, Paul said in Ephesians 6:5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

Revelation 15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest

Once again, we read who shall fear the Lord in Isaiah 66, why? Because (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.)

God says to the likes of you, who desire to be under the law:
Gal 4:21-24
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.


You are following and preaching bondage, disobedience and death. You are under the ministry of death/condemnation, which was done away with, 2Cor 3:7,9
Rom 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.


As for Christians, Gal 4:31 says:
So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


Christians are under the better ministry of the Spirit/righteousness. Christians are not under the ministry of death/condemnation which was done away.


2Cor 3:7-
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.



After a person been baptize, they are clean for the first time in their life, they pass sin are erase, now they have to stay clean or keep from sinning wilfully.
But we see from your own words that you do not obey the law perfectly. And you excuse yourself in this by saying it was a mistake and not willful.

You misunderstand what "sinning willfully" means.
It refers to being under the law, determining righteousness by obedience/works of the law. It speaks about those who are saved by grace but then return to the law for righteousness. When you rebuild the law for righteousness in your life you make yourself a transgressor/sinner, Gal 2:18. You frustrate the grace of God, Gal 2:21.

James 2:10 explains how you stand under the law.
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Any professing Christian under the law, thus making themselves a transgressor (Gal 2:18), they are guilty of all the law. If they continue in this after having the knowledge of the truth (gospel of grace) and do not repent of it (as we see God calls them to do in Rev 2 & 3), then they sin willfully and there remains no more sacrifice for sins, Heb 10:26-29.

Many contend that Jesus did it all and now all we have to do is have faith. The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD"(James 2:20).
A Christian's works that shows their faith is to believe on Jesus.

When Jesus was asked what are our works, he replied, "believe on him whom He hath sent", John6:29

This is what the thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" did. He believed in Jesus. And there was clearly no works/obedience to the law involved.

Believing in Jesus is our works that shows our faith.
Those who follow doctrines involving works of the law for righteousness/salvation are in fact denying the need for Christ. Jesus is a stumbling stone to them.

Rom 9:31-33
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
 
G

gracethroughfaith

Guest
#36
Grace! What is this Grace, God speeks of so often thoughout the bible? It is not what most everyone has been taught. But it is the Gospel message Jesus taught his disciples, and commanded them to go into all world and preach!

Tell me your thougts on what you have been taught about what Grace is!
 
T

Tan

Guest
#37
God says to the likes of you, who desire to be under the law:
Gal 4:21-24
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.


You are following and preaching bondage, disobedience and death. You are under the ministry of death/condemnation, which was done away with, 2Cor 3:7,9
Rom 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.


As for Christians, Gal 4:31 says:
So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


Christians are under the better ministry of the Spirit/righteousness. Christians are not under the ministry of death/condemnation which was done away.


2Cor 3:7-
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.





But we see from your own words that you do not obey the law perfectly. And you excuse yourself in this by saying it was a mistake and not willful.

You misunderstand what "sinning willfully" means.
It refers to being under the law, determining righteousness by obedience/works of the law. It speaks about those who are saved by grace but then return to the law for righteousness. When you rebuild the law for righteousness in your life you make yourself a transgressor/sinner, Gal 2:18. You frustrate the grace of God, Gal 2:21.

James 2:10 explains how you stand under the law.
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Any professing Christian under the law, thus making themselves a transgressor (Gal 2:18), they are guilty of all the law. If they continue in this after having the knowledge of the truth (gospel of grace) and do not repent of it (as we see God calls them to do in Rev 2 & 3), then they sin willfully and there remains no more sacrifice for sins, Heb 10:26-29.



A Christian's works that shows their faith is to believe on Jesus.

When Jesus was asked what are our works, he replied, "believe on him whom He hath sent", John6:29

This is what the thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" did. He believed in Jesus. And there was clearly no works/obedience to the law involved.

Believing in Jesus is our works that shows our faith.
Those who follow doctrines involving works of the law for righteousness/salvation are in fact denying the need for Christ. Jesus is a stumbling stone to them.

Rom 9:31-33
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.




When I teach the Bible I teach from Genesis to Revelation, not from Matthew to Revelation. I understand that spirit that you preach under, it that Sunday doctrine mindset (Roman Christianity). That doctrine forces you to look for verses according they mindset. For example...I will post a verse that is clean and concrete, can't be overturn by any other verse. Let go into (Romans 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET. Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law. (v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy. (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin. Which mean we can do as we please when we please!

Now, it would of been better if you would of ask me some question, instead of thinking you are correcting me. I tell people all the time, you can't just quote verses that support doctrine of man. Just because you see a verse that says, end of the law, does not means its talking about the Commandments (Royal law). When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. The commandments never left the table...never! Paul said in (Rom. 5:13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. If there is no law, there is no sin! These are simple verses in the BIble written by Paul to understand, once this is understood then you start to think, and understand whats is not. God had Peter to clearly warn you about some of Paul’s writing. (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now you need to take heed to this warning, you can’t ignore all the bible and just concentrate on one or two verse out of the writings of Paul. Because some of Paul’s writing is hard to be understood.
 
T

Tan

Guest
#38
Grace! What is this Grace, God speeks of so often thoughout the bible? It is not what most everyone has been taught. But it is the Gospel message Jesus taught his disciples, and commanded them to go into all world and preach!

Tell me your thougts on what you have been taught about what Grace is!
Thats a good question...Most people do not understand what grace is. All they will say is that I am under grace. Some will say grace is a free gift and that’s true. But, what is this free gift. The free gift (grace) is Jesus came and died for our sins and by coming under his blood; we have access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam by sinning took away in the garden. With out the Tree of life man was condemned to death, even the second death (the lake of fire). Jesus told us in the scripture, (Psalms: 69: 4)I restore that which I took not away” which is your grace (our access to Jesus). Our fore parents, Adam and Eve chose to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Satan), by listening to Satan, instead of God, he cost us are access to The Tree of Life (Jesus). Paul said this in Roman 5: 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. This death Paul is talking about is not just the first death, but also the second death, which is the lake of fire. Adam and Eve were put forth from the Garden of Eden and from the Tree of Life. Grace is no more than a free gift retained by keeping God’s Law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus. And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death, this includes all the prophets to. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. Paul said, For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. (Hebrews 10: 26)
 

Snackersmom

Senior Member
May 10, 2011
1,472
135
63
#39
Just a thought....anyone who's obeying God purely out of fear for what He'll do to them if they disobey.......are they perhaps neglecting what Jesus called the greatest commandment:

To LOVE God with all our heart, soul, and mind.

Kinda hard to properly love someone you're terrified of, no?
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#40
i have some scriptures to post but first i want to say this- obeying god for whatever reason is like getting used to praying. at first we may find it a chore and dificult to do but soon we no longer obey him out of fear but we obey him because we want to, and that is what jesus meant when he said if we love him we will obey him. i have always loved serving him, obeying him has been a big problem for me but if i get a chance to shine for him i'm there. especially if i get to help the needy:] listen to this verse:If you remain in me and follow my teachings, you can ask anything you want and it will be given to you John14:13 beautiful isn't it:D