6000 years and the distance of Stars

[trofimus]

It doesn't. (Rather why I didn't think one way or another about 6000 years. Might be. Might not be. Who knows?) But then again it does say land animals and Man was created on the same day, so are you saying Man has been around for oh so long that we had to wait around for the oil and gas to show up? And since obviously some animals did die by falling into tar pits, and tar is a precursor to oil, whoa! Humans and dinosaurs really survived for a long, long, loooong time together.

Its very obvious that "day" in Genesis 1 is not 24 hours.

If you will look at the geological strata, you will see that the life evolved from the simplest organisms to the today´s one. No man is together with trilobit or with dinosaurs (no, debunked hoaxes of human footprint with dinosaurs are not proofs).
So it obviously did not take 24 hours, right.

Also, man encountered a fallen creature in the paradise - so called "serpent". You probably believe it was under the infulence of the devil. How could devil fall in 6 literal days? Wow, that was fast!

Also, Adam felt lonely. In one day only??? Wow, that was fast!

Also, we see stars burning out or new stars forming. It really takes much more time than 6000 years for a star to burn out.

Also, there is so many impact craters on the surface of the earth that it would kill all the life on the planet hudreds and hudreds time, if it would all happen in 6000 years span.


Summary - when we read Genesis, we see it was much longer than 24 hours periods. When we look at the science, we see it too. There is therefore no reason to continue in this middle ages idea of a young earth.

 

[tanakh]

A planet has recently been discovered orbiting the Centauri star system which is 4.3 light years from us and is considered to be our next door neighbor I heard that the Russians are thinking of sending a probe there sometime in the future. It will take about twenty years to get there. The point is whatever else they may find there it will go some way to prove that the vast distances between stars is not someones fantasy and the billions spent by NASA and other Nations space agencies are not being used to maintain some bizarre plot to undermine the Christian fundamentalists view of Genesis

 

[know1]

My faith has never been the same since it was pointed out to me that we can observe stars going supernova 10 billion Light Years From Earth. If the entire universe is only 6000 years old and the earth is the oldest thing in it then how did a star live out it's entire life cycle, go supernova and have it's light travel 10 billion light years to reach us?

I would not take the interpretation of many as the gospel truth. Take for instance the topic, once saved always saved. Many say you can't lose your salvation based on their interpretation of scripture and others say you can while interpreting from the same book. If something doesn't sound right or make sense, it probably isn't correct, but if the gap theory makes more sense, then go with that. However, regardless of what you hear, do not discard the word of God as flawed or in error, or the fact that it is truth, perhaps it would be better to look at the people as the ones who are flawed or in error concerning their interpretation of the bible.

 

[dcontroversal]

A planet has recently been discovered orbiting the Centauri star system which is 4.3 light years from us and is considered to be our next door neighbor I heard that the Russians are thinking of sending a probe there sometime in the future. It will take about twenty years to get there. The point is whatever else they may find there it will go some way to prove that the vast distances between stars is not someones fantasy and the billions spent by NASA and other Nations space agencies are not being used to maintain some bizarre plot to undermine the Christian fundamentalists view of Genesis

186,000 mph x 168 hours a week =31,248,000 miles a week
31,248,000 miles a week x 223.6 weeks (4.3 light years) =6,987,052,800 miles at the speed of light for 4.3 years
6,087,052,800 miles divided by 175,320 hours (20 years plus leap years) =34,719.61 miles an hour

Anything launched by Russia would have to travel 34,719.61 miles an hour for 20 years straight to reach a system 4.3 light years away.....

The fastest launch so far was the New Horizons probe which lifted off in 2006 on a mission to Pluto and the Kuiper Belt. The 1054 pound, piano sized spacecraft left earth at 36,000 mile per hour.....So...it is possible to make it in 20 years

 

[dcontroversal]

186,000 mph x 168 hours a week =31,248,000 miles a week
31,248,000 miles a week x 223.6 weeks (4.3 light years) =6,987,052,800 miles at the speed of light for 4.3 years
6,087,052,800 miles divided by 175,320 hours (20 years plus leap years) =34,719.61 miles an hour

Anything launched by Russia would have to travel 34,719.61 miles an hour for 20 years straight to reach a system 4.3 light years away.....

The fastest launch so far was the New Horizons probe which lifted off in 2006 on a mission to Pluto and the Kuiper Belt. The 1054 pound, piano sized spacecraft left earth at 36,000 mile per hour.....So...it is possible to make it in 20 years

CORRECTION I had a long day.....My math is bad...did anyone catch my mistake.........??

light travels at 186,000 miles a second.....so....

186,000 mps x 60 seconds x 60 minutes x 168 hours a week = 112,492,800,000 miles a week
112,492,800,000 a week x 223.6 weeks (4.3 light year) = 25,153,390,080,000 miles at speed of light for 4.3 years
25,153,390,080,000 divided by 175,320 hours (20 years plus leap years) = 143,471,310.0616miles per hour...

It is impossible to reach a system 4.3 light years away...a ship would have to travel 143,471,310 miles an hour.....to make it in 20 years

 

[tanakh]

CORRECTION I had a long day.....My math is bad...did anyone catch my mistake.........??

light travels at 186,000 miles a second.....so....

186,000 mps x 60 seconds x 60 minutes x 168 hours a week = 112,492,800,000 miles a week
112,492,800,000 a week x 223.6 weeks (4.3 light year) = 25,153,390,080,000 miles at speed of light for 4.3 years
25,153,390,080,000 divided by 175,320 hours (20 years plus leap years) = 143,471,310.0616miles per hour...

It is impossible to reach a system 4.3 light years away...a ship would have to travel 143,471,310 miles an hour.....to make it in 20 years

As far as I can remember something called a Micro Probe was mentioned. I haven't heard of this before so I cant supply any more details but the article definitely said 20 years or so.

 

[Depleted]

Its very obvious that "day" in Genesis 1 is not 24 hours.

If you will look at the geological strata, you will see that the life evolved from the simplest organisms to the today´s one. No man is together with trilobit or with dinosaurs (no, debunked hoaxes of human footprint with dinosaurs are not proofs).
So it obviously did not take 24 hours, right.

Also, man encountered a fallen creature in the paradise - so called "serpent". You probably believe it was under the infulence of the devil. How could devil fall in 6 literal days? Wow, that was fast!

Also, Adam felt lonely. In one day only??? Wow, that was fast!

Also, we see stars burning out or new stars forming. It really takes much more time than 6000 years for a star to burn out.

Also, there is so many impact craters on the surface of the earth that it would kill all the life on the planet hudreds and hudreds time, if it would all happen in 6000 years span.


Summary - when we read Genesis, we see it was much longer than 24 hours periods. When we look at the science, we see it too. There is therefore no reason to continue in this middle ages idea of a young earth.

I believe in the literal interpretation of Genesis 1. Day is defined. I'm a gardener who brings in plants that can't tolerate freezing every year. They die without sunlight in less than a month. So, if Day 1 is the same as Day 5, (I think that's when veggies came along, I might be off) then either it was 24 hours per day, or eons per day. In which case, a day ought to still be an eon, and there should be no plants or animals.

Strata? Flood! My uncle owned bottomland that was fun in the summer, (or was used to grow corn on), but no one went down there when the snow melt in the mountains, and then the rains of spring hit. I have no idea what farmer was losing cows to the floods, but we found full vertebrates from them one year. (No cattle farmers for as far up the river as I ever saw, which was only about 15 miles.) Arrowheads every year. (No Native Americans living there for a good two centuries either. Actually, they wouldn't ever live there for the same reason my uncle wouldn't sell the land to build a house on. No one could live there in spring. It was an elbow lake. The original Americans would have known that.) Multiple that by the entire Earth. Strata? Sure. I've seen nature take back a two-way paved road in 15 years with four inches of soil. I've found a rodent skull in a bag of potting soil. Lots of reasons dead animals don't always decay where they died, (although, I'm pretty sure bags of potting soil doesn't usually explain it. lol)

As for how did Satan fall so quickly? Nothing leads me to believe Satan fell in a mere 6 days. TinTin (a fellow member of this site, not an English word you haven't met before lol) thinks Adam and Eve lasted quite some time in that garden. I tend to think they lasted long enough to have it a habit to walk there with God every evening. How often before Adam felt alone the rest of the day? Nowhere does it say Satan showed up on immediately. (Nowhere does it say the serpent was Satan either, but I don't know what to do about that one.)

Stars. A mere 400 years ago, scientists taught us the universe revolved around the Earth. It's been my lifetime that they decided the moon was an asteroid struck straight through the earth, and the moon is now a mixture of Earth and that asteroid. Your lifetime since they came up with that "first extinction event" was caused by a meteorite crashing into Mexico. Now there coming up with something is holding the universe together. (Some invisible force. I think that's String Theory, but I'm not the sharpest mind for science. Love studying science. Just not good at it. lol) Maybe. Maybe not. But when do they discover that the universe is circular, and light doesn't go in a straight line? They kind of make stuff up sometimes, and then think that is the reality, like Big Bang. If they didn't know the Earth rotated around the sun 400 years ago, what makes you think they know how the universe works today?

Me? I simply figure if God starts his book with a lie, then why should I believe the rest of it? Considering so much I do know from that book is true, I'll start doubting God's first chapter when it gets proven.

 

[Rondonmon]

Yeah. Repeating the same nonsense doesn't make it any less nonsense.

Or 1001 ways to deflect when I have no idea what hes talking about. I understand you are not grasping my verbiage, my 1^164, or my understanding of the facts as I believe them to be. Everyone can't all be like me.............. Lennie's calling.

 

[lettucepray]

I wouldn't trust science too much. Look at their claims for evolution (which to me is ridiculous) Look at what they do to the sick to treat their diseases instead of having them fast for their healing. There are so many holes in science that we don't challenge because of the amazing things science and technology have provided for us. Isaiah 40:12 "Who else has held the oceans in his hand? Who has measured off the heavens with his fingers? Who else knows the weight of the earth or has weighed the mountains and hills on a scale?" God created everything, and everything was meant to be revealed... Just keep looking inward, because that's where the Kingdom is found

 

[Ahwatukee]

I wouldn't trust science too much. Look at their claims for evolution (which to me is ridiculous) Look at what they do to the sick to treat their diseases instead of having them fast for their healing. There are so many holes in science that we don't challenge because of the amazing things science and technology have provided for us. Isaiah 40:12 "Who else has held the oceans in his hand? Who has measured off the heavens with his fingers? Who else knows the weight of the earth or has weighed the mountains and hills on a scale?" God created everything, and everything was meant to be revealed... Just keep looking inward, because that's where the Kingdom is found

Happy New Year, lettucepray!

I have always believed that the following scripture fit those who trust in science/evolution to a tee:

==============================

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

============================================

Worshiping and serving created things is an accurate description of science giving the credit to evolution as to how creation came about, instead of recognizing God as the creator. For those who trust in science as the answer to creation, instead of acknowledging God as the creator, just as the scripture states, by their knowledge they profess themselves to be wise and in doing so become fools.

 

[trofimus]

Happy New Year, lettucepray!

I have always believed that the following scripture fit those who trust in science/evolution to a tee:

==============================

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

============================================

Worshiping and serving created things is an accurate description of science giving the credit to evolution as to how creation came about, instead of recognizing God as the creator. For those who trust in science as the answer to creation, instead of acknowledging God as the creator, just as the scripture states, by their knowledge they profess themselves to be wise and in doing so become fools.

And I think this verse is about those who believe Earth is flat, 6000 years old, the center of the universe or that days in Genesis are literal:

"Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults."
1Cor 14:20

 

[trofimus]

I believe in the literal interpretation of Genesis 1. Day is defined. I'm a gardener who brings in plants that can't tolerate freezing every year. They die without sunlight in less than a month. So, if Day 1 is the same as Day 5, (I think that's when veggies came along, I might be off) then either it was 24 hours per day, or eons per day. In which case, a day ought to still be an eon, and there should be no plants or animals.

I dont understand. Why would plants in day 5 be without light? Light was brought in on day or eon 1.

Strata? Flood! My uncle owned bottomland that was fun in the summer, (or was used to grow corn on), but no one went down there when the snow melt in the mountains, and then the rains of spring hit. I have no idea what farmer was losing cows to the floods, but we found full vertebrates from them one year. (No cattle farmers for as far up the river as I ever saw, which was only about 15 miles.) Arrowheads every year. (No Native Americans living there for a good two centuries either. Actually, they wouldn't ever live there for the same reason my uncle wouldn't sell the land to build a house on. No one could live there in spring. It was an elbow lake. The original Americans would have known that.) Multiple that by the entire Earth. Strata? Sure. I've seen nature take back a two-way paved road in 15 years with four inches of soil. I've found a rodent skull in a bag of potting soil. Lots of reasons dead animals don't always decay where they died, (although, I'm pretty sure bags of potting soil doesn't usually explain it. lol)

It is really impossible for a wild and violent cataclysmic event like the global flood to produce nice columns of strata from the simplest organisms not living later, then dinosaurs then today's animals. And not for example human with a dinosaur, trilobit with a cow etc.
The same for the plants.

Flood would produce a huge mass of mess, everything mixed together.

As for how did Satan fall so quickly? Nothing leads me to believe Satan fell in a mere 6 days. TinTin (a fellow member of this site, not an English word you haven't met before lol) thinks Adam and Eve lasted quite some time in that garden. I tend to think they lasted long enough to have it a habit to walk there with God every evening. How often before Adam felt alone the rest of the day? Nowhere does it say Satan showed up on immediately. (Nowhere does it say the serpent was Satan either, but I don't know what to do about that one.)

Ok, this is possible.

On the other hand, we know that angels were already there when God started the terraforming of the planet.
Also notice that God did not create the planet as such in creation days. They begins with the one already present.

Stars. A mere 400 years ago, scientists taught us the universe revolved around the Earth. It's been my lifetime that they decided the moon was an asteroid struck straight through the earth, and the moon is now a mixture of Earth and that asteroid. Your lifetime since they came up with that "first extinction event" was caused by a meteorite crashing into Mexico. Now there coming up with something is holding the universe together. (Some invisible force. I think that's String Theory, but I'm not the sharpest mind for science. Love studying science. Just not good at it. lol) Maybe. Maybe not. But when do they discover that the universe is circular, and light doesn't go in a straight line? They kind of make stuff up sometimes, and then think that is the reality, like Big Bang. If they didn't know the Earth rotated around the sun 400 years ago, what makes you think they know how the universe works today?

Well, its called "more knowledge". People in the 17th century did not know much.

The Big Bang is one of the most best proved facts in the science, even atheists had to admit it (and they really did not want to, because the Big Bang says the universe had a beginning, i.e. like the Bible says).

Me? I simply figure if God starts his book with a lie, then why should I believe the rest of it? Considering so much I do know from that book is true, I'll start doubting God's first chapter when it gets proven.

There is no lie, the hebrew word for "day" does not have to mean 24 hours. Its a translation issue, like always.

=====================================================

How could Adam get lonely in only 24 hours?

How can we see starts burning out or new stars forming?

Why are there so many impact craters on the Earth that it would wipe out all life many times if all happened in 6000 span?

Why do you even believe it is 6000 years and not 8000 years? Because of some bishop living who knows where who counted this?

 

[renewed_hope]

CORRECTION I had a long day.....My math is bad...did anyone catch my mistake.........??

light travels at 186,000 miles a second.....so....

186,000 mps x 60 seconds x 60 minutes x 168 hours a week = 112,492,800,000 miles a week
112,492,800,000 a week x 223.6 weeks (4.3 light year) = 25,153,390,080,000 miles at speed of light for 4.3 years
25,153,390,080,000 divided by 175,320 hours (20 years plus leap years) = 143,471,310.0616miles per hour...

It is impossible to reach a system 4.3 light years away...a ship would have to travel 143,471,310 miles an hour.....to make it in 20 years

Ah geez, DCon....I just looked at all the formulas and my head started to hurt so I skimmed thru thinking you were right lol.

*on a personal note I love numbers and my job (accountant) deals with a lot of them, but math? Forget about it haha!

 

[trofimus]

This is probably the article you are talking about:
Russian billionaire unveils big plan to build tiny interstellar spacecraft | Science | AAAS

"A program to develop a tiny spacecraft, weighing less than a gram, and propel it across nearly 40 trillion kilometers of space to the nearest star to study any planets there.

Powerful Earth-based lasers would boost the craft, which would be waiting in Earth's orbit, with an acceleration of 60,000 g for a few minutes to reach 20% of the speed of light—fast enough to reach Alpha Centauri in 20 years."

 

[Joshua_6]

in my understanding if the earth were stationary that would not in any way whatsoever affect the distance to the stars.

so where did you get this idea . . ?

The distance to stars is calculated using the presumed diameter of Earth's rotation about the sun as the base of the triangle (Summer to Winter). If the Earth does not move, this diameter is zero, and the calculated distance from Earth to the star is therefore significantly reduced (think smaller triangular base with same angle, smaller triangular sides).

 

[Clinton33]

This discussion has been very interesting and I apologize for making the post and taking so long to get back to the discussion.
Basically it boils down to two options:
Option 1: Yahweh, who is capable of all things, created the universe to appear to be billions of years old. This would mean it is yahweh's desire to reward the gullibility of people who believe ancient texts over direct observations of Reality. It also means that Yahweh wishes to punish people who choose to believe that the facts of reality are as they appear rather than invoking Blind Faith to believe the ancient writings of superstitious Iron Age man.

Option 2: The scripture is wrong.

Keep in mind that creating the universe to appear to have age exceeding billions of years involves creating light on a transit to Earth depicting supernovas that never existed. A very elaborate trick.

 

[Clinton33]

And just to clarify, even though I'm Christian I do not believe that the Bible is the word of God. I believe that the Bible is a collection of stories put together by ancient man and it has been too heavily altered over the millennia to be completely trusted. The truth of the Lord comes through personal Revelation and not the mistranslated adulterated book we call the Bible

 

[Galatea]

This discussion has been very interesting and I apologize for making the post and taking so long to get back to the discussion.
Basically it boils down to two options:
Option 1: Yahweh, who is capable of all things, created the universe to appear to be billions of years old. This would mean it is yahweh's desire to reward the gullibility of people who believe ancient texts over direct observations of Reality. It also means that Yahweh wishes to punish people who choose to believe that the facts of reality are as they appear rather than invoking Blind Faith to believe the ancient writings of superstitious Iron Age man.

Option 2: The scripture is wrong.

Keep in mind that creating the universe to appear to have age exceeding billions of years involves creating light on a transit to Earth depicting supernovas that never existed. A very elaborate trick.

Option 3: Gap Theory - millions, billions, jillions, of years pass between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. This is the theory to which many old Earth Creationists subscribe. I have read that the problem with Gap Theory is that would mean sin existed before man's fall in the Garden of Eden. Of course sin existed before Adam and Eve. Lucifer was the first sinner, committing the first sin- pride. He fell as did a third of the angels that followed him. This happened before man came on the scene. Lucifer was the original sinner Isaiah 14:12-17 and Ezekiel 28:12-19.

Edited after reading your last post to pose this question, how do you know that your personal revelations are of God and not of yourself or of the devil? How do you test personal revelation?

 

[dcontroversal]

And just to clarify, even though I'm Christian I do not believe that the Bible is the word of God. I believe that the Bible is a collection of stories put together by ancient man and it has been too heavily altered over the millennia to be completely trusted. The truth of the Lord comes through personal Revelation and not the mistranslated adulterated book we call the Bible

Good luck with that mate!

 

[Bladerunner]

If you lived a infinite life would grow a tree in 6 days or 6 billions years, I like the idea of billions of years would be much more enjoyable in the long haul then just a mere six days then what tittle the tumbs all day long...

Then you do not believe the WORD of GOD...because He tells you it was a 6 (24 day) that He made everything?

Time is short,,,,do believe I would be speed reading or asking a bunch of questions to the Scholars on this Forum.