Speaking in tongues

[presidente]

So From Acts 1:1-7 we can now know it was the apostles whom John was prophesying that would be baptized with the Holy Spirit. So in Acts 1:9 Jesus left earth so the Comforter would come to the apostles in Acts 2.

John made the promise to a bunch of Jews including Pharisees and Saducees. Peter spoke of the Spirit being promised to those who are afar off. Did this include Gentiles? Look at Acts 10. The Comforter was promised to the apostles, but I Corinthians 2 shows that the Spirit reveals things to 'regular believers', written probably to a predominantly believing-Gentile audience. Paul wrote, "For we have the mind of Christ."

Paul wrote to the Romans that the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts, but the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

And From Acts 2 it was the "hands of the apostles" Acts 5:12,18; miraculous signs were being performed. Not until about Acts 6:8 do we see someone other than an apostle performing an apostolic sign (2 Cor 12:12). The apostles, no one else, had the power to lay their hands upon another and pass that person an apostolic sign, Acts 8:17,18.

Now you repeat the falacious reasoning of the theologian B.B. Warfield who was grasping at straws to explain away miracles and still explain the evidence in the historical writings for their presence in the second or maybe even the third century (depending on when Irenaeus 'Against Heresies' was written.)
We can all acknowledge there are cases where gifts were imparted by the laying on of hands of the apostles. The problem is that you are reading 'only' into the passages where it does not exist... again.

There are several problems with your viewpoint.

1. It directly contradicts I Timothy 4:14.

Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery.
(NASB)

Here, the gift is given through prophecy. It's not given through the laying on of hands of the apostles. The elders laid hands on Timothy in this case.
I know some people respond to this with circular reasoning, arguing that Paul had already laid his hands on him. Another argument is that this gift wasn't a 'sign gift'. The problem with that is dividing the gifts into sign gifts and non-sign gifts and saying one set is given through the apostles and the other isn't is man-made doctrine.

2. If gifts are given ONLY through the laying on of hands of the apostles, then there are no gifted teachers, administrators, showers of mercy, exhorters, etc. The Greek word 'charisma' is used of both.

3. Acts account of Paul debunks the idea that spiritual gifts were only given through the laying on of hands of the apostles.

Acts 9
17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

So Ananias, not one of the 12, but a 'disciple' and a devout Jew, a follower of Jesus, laid hands on Paul. Paul received the Holy Ghost. Later, we see he did miracles. He said of the other apostles he had met that they 'added nothing to me.' So we can't say they laid hands on him to receive the Holy Ghost, be baptized with the Holy Ghost, or receive the power to do miracles or impart gifts to others.

God granted that such a great gift, the gift of apostleship, be given without the laying on of hands of the apostles. So it makes sense that lesser gifts can be given, as the Spirit wills.

4. The direct teaching of scripture is that gifts are given 'as the Spirit wills' (I Cor. 12) and according to God's will: "according to His own will" (Hebrews 2.)

In the examples we see in scripture, gifts were given either through the laying on of the apostles hands, or apart from it, accordin to God's will.

5. It is extremely unlikely that Peter was laying hands on Cornelius or those present with him before they spoke in tongues in Acts 10.

6. Prophets had been prophesying, doing miracles, and raising the dead before the apostles came along, and God never stated that the imparting of such gifts would only come through the apostles hands.

The Bible clearly shows that God can empower people to do such things either through the laying on of apostles' hands or apart from it. The didacting teaching of scripture is that gifts are given 'as the Spirit wills.'

 

[presidente]

2 Tim 3:16,17, scripture is all manneeds.

So if you were to spend some time below the sea down there with the bass, with no air, you'd be fine?

What if you never ate again. Jesus said that man does not live by breat alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Notice 'bread alone.' We do need bread, too. It is not true to say that all we need is the Bible.

Nor is it possible to conclude that all we need is the Bible or that we do not need spiritual gifts from the passage you referenced. Read carefully. It says all scripture is given that the man of God might be fully equipped. It does NOT say that scripture is all that is given tha tthe man of God may be fully equipped. Reading Cessationism into this verse requires sloppy logic or not reading carefully enough.

Also, what scripture says about spiritual gifts, such as that they are given 'as the Spirit wills' is profitable for doctrine as well. We need to believe what the Bible teaches about spiritual gifts instead of trying to explain it away.

A couple of chapters before the one you referenced, there, Paul told Timothy to stir up the spiritual gift that was in him by the laying on of his hands. Why would he say that if the gift was going to cease in the short time it took for Timothy to reach chapter 3? Chapter 4 wouldn't be inspired if that were the case, either, or the rest of the Bible written after I Timothy 3.

 

[phil112]

So if you were to spend some time below the sea down there with the bass, with no air, you'd be fine?
What if you never ate again. Jesus said that man does not live by breat alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Notice 'bread alone.' We do need bread, too. It is not true to say that all we need is the Bible.....................

I guess it depends on whether you are ready and want to go. If I am going to heaven (and I certainly have all intention of doing so), I am ready to die yesterday. There is nothing on this earth that holds my desire more than eternal life with our Saviour, Christ Jesus. I feel like Paul did when he said: "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. [SUP] [/SUP]But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
[SUP] [/SUP]For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better"

You are correct, in that we need literal bread here on earth, but the bread of life is all we need for eternal life. Not trying to be contrary, just presenting another way of looking at it. I would like for my eternal life to get started posthaste. This physical life is keeping me from that.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Yes The only Initial Evidence of the infilling of the true Genuine Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues. Tongues are needed. Ephs. 6 Jude 1:20 Acts 2, 10, 19. . Its about obeying Jesus Christ and what He said to do in John 3. You want to go higher and father in God? You can! God gives the Holy Spirit to all who ask in faith.

The initial evidnce of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is not speaking in tongues.

The evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is a newfound love for the truth.

A man that has been baptized by the Holy Spirit of God, will start to read and study the Bible a lot, and he will start having an interest in many subects which are in the Holy Bible.

The Sign Gift of tongues are not for Christians. The Gift of Tongues was for the Jews. The Jews require a sign, not the Gentiles. See 1 Cor. 1:22.

 

[Kerry]

Don't y'all find it odd that southern baptist ministers (the denomination that fights so hard against tongues) are being baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, like dominoes one after another. Many of them are kicked out our lose most of their congregation, but they cannot deny what they have received. The Spirit is moving in this denomination that fought so hard to resist Him.

 

[thecreationtutor]

Yes The only Initial Evidence of the infilling of the true Genuine Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues. Tongues are needed. Ephs. 6 Jude 1:20 Acts 2, 10, 19. . Its about obeying Jesus Christ and what He said to do in John 3. You want to go higher and father in God? You can! God gives the Holy Spirit to all who ask in faith.

no it is not -- bearing fruits of salvation is

gifts of the Spirit can be faked, but fruits of salvation cannot

 

[presidente]

The Sign Gift of tongues are not for Christians. The Gift of Tongues was for the Jews. The Jews require a sign, not the Gentiles. See 1 Cor. 1:22.

The Bible doesn't separate spiritual gifts into 'sign gifts' and 'other' categories.

Keep reading I Corinthians until you get to chapter 12 to see that these gifts are for Christians.

 

[LT]

Why would God have given us regulations for speaking in tongues and prophecy if these regulations were not to be used by the Church? If they were only instruction for the 1st generation of saints, why was it inspired by the Holy Spirit to be written down and kept?

The Word was not written in vain.

 

[Pres19]

I believe in speaking in tongues. (I also believe people now days can aswell) But I don't believe its a must have in order to prove your salvation.
It's a gift from the Holy Spirit. And just like all the other gifts not every one has it. Some people speak in tongues and others may have the gift of prophecy. Some people have both. So just because a person can't speak in tongues doesn't mean anything. It just means that's not the gift God has for them. Well there I gave my opinion

 

[ChosenbyHim]

The Bible doesn't separate spiritual gifts into 'sign gifts' and 'other' categories.

Keep reading I Corinthians until you get to chapter 12 to see that these gifts are for Christians.

The Bible does teach that the Sign Gifts are for Israel.

The purpose of those Sign Gifts was to confirm the word to the Jews.


1 Corinthians 1:22 KJV
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:


1 Corinthians 14:22 KJV
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.


Furthermore, we are told to covet earnestly the best gifts (1 Cor. 12:31), and in three different lists, tongues shows up at the bottom.

 

[notuptome]

If these things ceased at the close of the canon, it doesn't make sense that they would revive for the 1000 year reign.

The perfect cannot refer to the closing of the canon of scripture. By having a copy of the canon, does that make your speech, knowledge, and understanding greater than one of the author's of scripture? Would you claim to understand the mysteries revealed to Paul better than Paul, because you have a copy of his child-like understanding in the canon?

It makes sense to God Who said it.

It is not about our speech, knowledge or understanding it is about the completeness of the word of God. God's strength is perfected in our weaknesses.

You will not to see because you desire that which is not yours. Just like somebody else in scripture who wanted the gift of the Holy Spirit for money.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[thecreationtutor]

Don't y'all find it odd that southern baptist ministers (the denomination that fights so hard against tongues) are being baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, like dominoes one after another. Many of them are kicked out our lose most of their congregation, but they cannot deny what they have received. The Spirit is moving in this denomination that fought so hard to resist Him.

nope - I notice people trying to draw a crowd, so they neglect Biblical truth, which happens in every denomination

 

[endtimes]

Everyone seems to focus on 1Cor. as being the only mode of tongues, but there are other modes which are

1) by gift of the spirit (1Corinthians),
2) by intercession (Romans),
3) and upon first receiving the Holy Spirit (Acts).

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

This speaks of an intercessory mode of tongues. With this we make intercessory prayer, and have confidence that our prayers are in God’s will.

Intercessory tongues is a mode or operation whereby the spirit moves. For example: Let's say that we walk into the Lord's house and we have a need that must be met. A saint begins to pray for us in tongues (as the Holy Ghost gives the utterance). This saint has never seen us before nor knows our need. But God knows. This is something on a personal level. This is something that meets a personal need.

The amazing thing about tongues, is that the Lord wants us to know it is available to everyone that has, or will have, the Holy Spirit as seen in the book of Acts. Which brings us to speaking in tongues as initial evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit the Bible way:

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
[2] And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
[3] And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
[4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Here are some links to share which have actual tongues recording:

True Worship and Praise recorded on Dec. 5, 2010

THE TRUTH ABOUT SPEAKING IN TONGUES

 

[thecreationtutor]

Here is a question - how does speaking in tongues fit in the Bible as a whole?

How can it be so different from, literally everything else in Scripture?

How can, "you must speak in tongues to have the Holy Spirit" fit in the whole of Scripture?

 

[SeaBass]

1 Corinthians 13 refers to the return of Christ, when there is no need for prophecy because Christ will be present with us.
The 'perfection' is not the completion of the Word, because the Bible is the 'partial'. Christ is the full measure of the Word.

In the context, what was then "in part" would be made "perfect"/whole/complete. Christ was not in part/imperfect only to be made complete/perfect.

 

[SeaBass]

Seabass,
You spend more time disproving that God's power & his Holy Ghost is not for today, than simply exercising your faith and believing it! That says more than pronouns, context's and all the other stuff you state to disprove God.

Oh you of Little faith...

I am disproving the claims of those today. One can read what John wrote down and believe the signs the Lord has done.

 

[SeaBass]

Why don't you read a few verses down? Or do you want to?

Acts 2:14-18 (KJV) [SUP]14 [/SUP]But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: [SUP]15 [/SUP]For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; [SUP]17 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: [SUP]18 [/SUP]And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Peter states plainly that this is the fulfillment of Joel. Therefore it's all of them.

Why don't you quit chopping up the scriptures & read them all?

In Acts 2 the apostles were baptized with the Holy Spirit and they would later lay their hands upon others passing on an apostolic gift, Acts 8:17,18

 

[Stephen63]

In Acts 2 the apostles were baptized with the Holy Spirit and they would later lay their hands upon others passing on an apostolic gift, Acts 8:17,18

Your theology is corrupt from the floor up. You are now on ignore.

 

[SeaBass]

I agree with you that water baptism is commanded. It is important. The idea of a Christian not being water baptized would have been quite a foreign concept to the apostles and early Christians.

The Bible does command believers to 'be filled with the Spirit.' In Acts, Luke uses 'baptized with the Holy Spirit', 'receive the gift of Spirit' and 'the Holy Ghost fell on them' to refer to the same type of events. Do a word study on these phrases.

Since there is one baptism, it is NT baptism with the Holy Spirit. The Christian can have an indwelling of the Holy SPirit through the word, but that indwelling is not baptism with the Holy Spirit. Also, the laying on of the apostles' hands and passing on a gift to another is not baptism with the Holy Spirit. The 2 places baptism with the HS occurs in Acts 2 with the apostles and Acts 10 with the Gentiles was by God WITHOUT the intervention of the hands of man.

Exegesis requires reading other relevant passages of scripture.

Matthew 3
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

This is a quote from John the Baptist, addressing the Hebrews who came to hear him, including the Pharisees and Saducees. Notice the reference to John in Christ's promise.

Peter said the promise of the Spirit was to those who repented and were baptized. Acts 10-11 shows that Gentiles who believed could receive the Spirit as well.

Exegesis is seeing who is speaking, who is being spoken to and what is being said.

There is an old saying that goes "YOU can lead a horse to water but YOU cannot make him drink." Both of the pronouns "you" in this saying do not refer to anyone specifcally, but are being used in a very generic sense.

In the context of Mt 3:11 John is speaking. He is speaking to Pharisees that there, verse 7. John says to these Pharisees "I indeed baptize YOU with water unto repentance". But we know John had not water baptized these Pharisees, the Pharisees rejected John's baptism, Lk 7:30. Why wold John say he water baptized them when hehad not? Obviously John is using the pronoun "you" both times in a very generic sense. John was simply ANNOUNCING the type of baptism he baptized with and they type of baptism Christ would baptize with. He was not peronally promising anyone baptism with the Holy Spirit. So it cannot be told from the immediate context of Mt 3:11 exactly who the "you" is that would be baptized with the Holy Ghost. People today want to inject themseves into the verse and make themselves be the second pronoun "you" in the verse while convienently ignoring the first pronoun "you". But looking to the fullfillment of this prophecy of John in Acts 1:1-5 we see it is the apostles that are the "you" John was speaking of, for Jesus Himself even refers to this prophecy of John in Acts 1:5 tying Acts 1:1-5 with that prophesy of John.

Jesus asked James and John if they could drink the cup He would drink of and be baptized with the baptism He would be baptized with. He was about to go to the cross. The Pharisees baptized tables. John spoke of baptism with the Holy Ghost. The disciples baptized with water. The Spirit baptizes people into one body.

I take Ephesians 4:5 to mean that hte baptism I partake of to be one with the baptism that others partake of-- not that the word 'baptize' can't be used for multiple things n multiple contexts.

The NT does speak of 6 or 7 baptisms but only one of them is in effect at the penning of Eph 4:5, only one saves that being Christ's baptism of the great commisions administered by humans, lasts till the end of time, remits sins, and is commanded. None of the other baptism you speak of above are commanded, saves etc.

In Acts 8, the eunuch was water baptized, the one baptism of Eph 4:5. He was not baptized with the Holy Ghost. We also know from Acts 15:11 that Jews and Gentiles are saved in like manner way. From the coversion in of the Jews in Acts 2; to Simon and Samaritans in Acts 8; Gentiles in Acts 10:47,48; Lydia and the jailer in Acts 16; Corinthians, Acts 18, water baptism was that "like manner way" they were saved.

 

[SeaBass]

If you are born again of the Spirit - YOU have the indwelling of the holy Spirit. Born again - God the Father, who is holy and is spirit, puts his nature (holy Spirit) inside each saved person by way of this new birth; i.e. the new man, the new creation. If you are not indwelt by the holy Spirit; YOU are still the old man, i.e. carnal, flesh.

What makes someone a Christian? Not because he goes to church nor the church he attends, nor because he was baptized in water, nor because he does good works. A Christian is someone who is saved, baptized in holy Spirit - born again, receiving a new nature via the holy Spirit. It is the one baptism in holy spirit that is personally given to each believer by Jesus Christ that makes a person a Christian - the indwelling of the holy Spirit is - God in Christ in YOU. YOU are a new creature:

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

We can stand before God with a pure conscience because it is not our flesh that he looks at but that new creature, that new man that he created in us via the holy Spirit. And - . .by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many.

Receiving the holy Spirit, being sealed with the Spirit, walking in the Spirit is the baptism of the holy Spirit and is how we are the body of Christ. . . .

One is born again by water baptism. This new birth of Jn 3:5 is not some kind of spirit baptism but one that involves water. In the great commission of Mt 28:19,20 water baptizing was the means as to how one was made a disciple. Acts 2:41, one has not received the gospel message until he has been water baptized.