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English is not king of languages..............ah, except for the fact the the King James version of the Bible was the first to be made accessible to anyone, From the lowest commoner, to the richest. English is the language that everyone on the planet must know, if they want to do business worldwide. English is also the language where it shares the alphabetical characters with all the other tribes of Israel. I just love dropping bombs.
It doesnt matter what version you use, none of them say you can remarry after a divorce nor go to church on sunday and get a blessing.
It would be better to acept all translations as inspired by the holy spirit and see how different translators see things from different angles
the gospel is the same thoughout
and yet the big denominations dont even know what the gospel is...
strange how many versions that tell us what the gospel is and no one knows what it is.
It would be better to acept all translations as inspired by the holy spirit and see how different translators see things from different angles
the gospel is the same thoughout
and yet the big denominations dont even know what the gospel is...
strange how many versions that tell us what the gospel is and no one knows what it is.
Some observations:
John 19:19-20 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS. This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
Where did the Hellenized name "Jesus" come from?
Zechariah 3:8 'Listen, High Priest Joshua, you and your associates seated before you, who are men symbolic of things to come: I am going to bring my servant, the Branch.
Joshua in Hebrew is the long version of the name Jesus in Hebrew. Joshua = Jesus just as Richard = Dick or Caitlyn = Katie or Yehoshua = Yeshua. Also, the vowels and letters in English transliterations of the Hebrew have not been standardized, so there is always variation as to how a specific name or word is transliterated from Hebrew to English. It's a little unfortunate, but still unconsequential.
John 19:19-20 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS. This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
Where did the Hellenized name "Jesus" come from?
Zechariah 3:8 'Listen, High Priest Joshua, you and your associates seated before you, who are men symbolic of things to come: I am going to bring my servant, the Branch.
Joshua in Hebrew is the long version of the name Jesus in Hebrew. Joshua = Jesus just as Richard = Dick or Caitlyn = Katie or Yehoshua = Yeshua. Also, the vowels and letters in English transliterations of the Hebrew have not been standardized, so there is always variation as to how a specific name or word is transliterated from Hebrew to English. It's a little unfortunate, but still unconsequential.
D
Please round out your education a little more by reading up on the Hellenization of the Jews and Christians. In the mean time here is a short article on this topic:
The Septuagint was written 200 years before Christ. It is generally believed that Jesus' primary language was not Hebrew. The Jews under the Babylonian captivity learned to read and write Aramaic. When they returned to Israel, that language came back with them. Note the name Cephas in the NT, which is an Aramaic name and probably the apostle Peter's true name.
The period of Hellenization started more than 300 years before Christ. The Jews who lived outside Israel are called Hellenistic Jews and did not speak any Hebrew, for the most part. Jews with in Israel spoke Aramaic and many, such as Paul spoke Greek.
Notice in the gospels how Pontius Pilate spoke to the crowds during Jesus' trial. Pilate probably did not speak any Hebrew or Aramaic. It is likely he addressed the crowd in Greek and they crowd clearly understood him. This suggest that the Jews spoke Greek and were very familiar with it.
The Septuagint was written 200 years before Christ. It is generally believed that Jesus' primary language was not Hebrew. The Jews under the Babylonian captivity learned to read and write Aramaic. When they returned to Israel, that language came back with them. Note the name Cephas in the NT, which is an Aramaic name and probably the apostle Peter's true name.
The period of Hellenization started more than 300 years before Christ. The Jews who lived outside Israel are called Hellenistic Jews and did not speak any Hebrew, for the most part. Jews with in Israel spoke Aramaic and many, such as Paul spoke Greek.
Notice in the gospels how Pontius Pilate spoke to the crowds during Jesus' trial. Pilate probably did not speak any Hebrew or Aramaic. It is likely he addressed the crowd in Greek and they crowd clearly understood him. This suggest that the Jews spoke Greek and were very familiar with it.
D
The KJV is not the first accessible bible. Where did you get that from?
The first accessible bible was the "Luther Bible" in German. The first English bible was produced by hand by John Wycliff in 1380 AD. In 1537 AD, Tyndale produced an English bible. The Geneva Bible was very accessible and it was produced in 1560 and it had chapters and verses numbered which the KJV copied.
The first accessible bible was the "Luther Bible" in German. The first English bible was produced by hand by John Wycliff in 1380 AD. In 1537 AD, Tyndale produced an English bible. The Geneva Bible was very accessible and it was produced in 1560 and it had chapters and verses numbered which the KJV copied.
You must remember that the Greek Empire ruled most of the known world and all of the Mediterranean for hundreds of years before Christ. Though the Roman Empire was in place at the time of Christ, the influence of the Greek language in the known world was widespread. Excerpted from “Greek Primacy”, which appears as part of a larger article, Hebrew Roots Movement – The Issue of “Hellenization”:
One thing that the HRM fails to do is to delineate the difference between language and culture. The common Greek language in use during the time of Christ crossed many cultural boundaries. That God intended for the New Testament to be written in Greek makes sense. It was the dominant language of the world at the time, used in trade, politics, and culture. Not only that, the Koine Greek language of the New Testament has broad descriptive ability and vocabulary with which to communicate the spiritual truths that God intended to impart to mankind under the New Covenant.
. . .
Greek was the most ideally adapted linguistic medium for the world-wide communication of the Gospel in the entire region of the eastern Mediterranean, Egypt and the Near East. Accurate in expression, beautiful in sound, and capable of great rhetorical force, it furnished an ideal vehicle for the proclamation of God’s message to man, transcending Semitic barriers and reaching out to all the Gentile races. It is highly significant that the ‘fulness of times,’ the first advent of Christ, was deferred until such time as Greek opened up channels of communication to all the Gentile nations east of Italy and Libya on a level not previously possible under the multilingual situation that previously prevailed.
. . .
This simple illustration frames the tendencies of the languages used in the Bible well:
Remember . . .
The common Greek language that God chose to communicate the concepts and truths of the New Covenant was merely a tool. Used because it was the best way to communicate the Gospel to the world at the time, both in its linguistic ability and in its scope. That the Koine Greek plays a part in the plan of God need not be targeted unless another agenda is afoot.
-JGIG
One thing that the HRM fails to do is to delineate the difference between language and culture. The common Greek language in use during the time of Christ crossed many cultural boundaries. That God intended for the New Testament to be written in Greek makes sense. It was the dominant language of the world at the time, used in trade, politics, and culture. Not only that, the Koine Greek language of the New Testament has broad descriptive ability and vocabulary with which to communicate the spiritual truths that God intended to impart to mankind under the New Covenant.
. . .
Languages Used in Ancient Palestine
After the Babylonian captivity, Aramaic replaced Biblical Hebrew as the everyday language in Palestine. The two languages were as similar as two Romance languages or two Germanic languages today. Thus, Biblical Hebrew, which was still used for religious purposes, was not totally unfamiliar, but still a somewhat strange norm that demanded a certain degree of training to be understood properly.
After Alexander, Palestine was ruled by the Ptolemies and the Seleucids for almost two hundred years [see map in the post].
Thus, Jewish culture was heavily influenced by Hellenistic culture, and Koine Greek was used not only for international communication, but also as the first language for many Jews. This development was furthered by the fact that the largest Jewish community of the world lived in Ptolemaic Alexandria. Many of these diaspora Jews would have Greek as their first language, and the Tanakh (Old Testament) was therefore translated into Greek, i.e. the Septuagint.
Currently, 1,600 Jewish epitaphs (funerary inscriptions) are extant from ancient Palestine dating from 300 B.C. to 500 A.D. Approximately 70 percent are in Greek, about 12 percent are in Latin, and only 18 percent are in Hebrew or Aramaic. In Jerusalem itself about 40 percent of the Jewish inscriptions from the first century period (before 70 C.E.) are in Greek.We may assume that most Jewish Jerusalemites who saw the inscriptions in situ were able to read them.
. . .
From Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible, III, p. 870, G. L. Archer has noted that:
After the Babylonian captivity, Aramaic replaced Biblical Hebrew as the everyday language in Palestine. The two languages were as similar as two Romance languages or two Germanic languages today. Thus, Biblical Hebrew, which was still used for religious purposes, was not totally unfamiliar, but still a somewhat strange norm that demanded a certain degree of training to be understood properly.
After Alexander, Palestine was ruled by the Ptolemies and the Seleucids for almost two hundred years [see map in the post].
Thus, Jewish culture was heavily influenced by Hellenistic culture, and Koine Greek was used not only for international communication, but also as the first language for many Jews. This development was furthered by the fact that the largest Jewish community of the world lived in Ptolemaic Alexandria. Many of these diaspora Jews would have Greek as their first language, and the Tanakh (Old Testament) was therefore translated into Greek, i.e. the Septuagint.
Currently, 1,600 Jewish epitaphs (funerary inscriptions) are extant from ancient Palestine dating from 300 B.C. to 500 A.D. Approximately 70 percent are in Greek, about 12 percent are in Latin, and only 18 percent are in Hebrew or Aramaic. In Jerusalem itself about 40 percent of the Jewish inscriptions from the first century period (before 70 C.E.) are in Greek.We may assume that most Jewish Jerusalemites who saw the inscriptions in situ were able to read them.
. . .
From Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible, III, p. 870, G. L. Archer has noted that:
Greek was the most ideally adapted linguistic medium for the world-wide communication of the Gospel in the entire region of the eastern Mediterranean, Egypt and the Near East. Accurate in expression, beautiful in sound, and capable of great rhetorical force, it furnished an ideal vehicle for the proclamation of God’s message to man, transcending Semitic barriers and reaching out to all the Gentile races. It is highly significant that the ‘fulness of times,’ the first advent of Christ, was deferred until such time as Greek opened up channels of communication to all the Gentile nations east of Italy and Libya on a level not previously possible under the multilingual situation that previously prevailed.
. . .
This simple illustration frames the tendencies of the languages used in the Bible well:
Hebrew language tends to be concrete
——> Law makes sense <——
Greek language tends to be abstract/conceptual
——> Grace makes sense <——
——> Law makes sense <——
Greek language tends to be abstract/conceptual
——> Grace makes sense <——
Remember . . .
The common Greek language that God chose to communicate the concepts and truths of the New Covenant was merely a tool. Used because it was the best way to communicate the Gospel to the world at the time, both in its linguistic ability and in its scope. That the Koine Greek plays a part in the plan of God need not be targeted unless another agenda is afoot.
-JGIG
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howdy, danschance!
i just read post #12 here,
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/90218-what-lord-told-me-about-my-anger-pastors.html
(well, ok, i read it an hour or two ago...
)
and the first few posts of this thread...
there might be some misunderstanding... maybe we can clear it up... there's the 4 letter name for God found in the ot... the op in the 'pastor' thread was using the english version of it... i was wondering why... then there's the name Jesus... which actually, i think, contains the 'jah' part of the 4 letter name... two different names, imo... tho some people may say they refer to the same person... depends on the theology... some might say the 4 letters refer to the Father, or the entire trinity, etc...
i just read post #12 here,
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/90218-what-lord-told-me-about-my-anger-pastors.html
(well, ok, i read it an hour or two ago...
)and the first few posts of this thread...
there might be some misunderstanding... maybe we can clear it up... there's the 4 letter name for God found in the ot... the op in the 'pastor' thread was using the english version of it... i was wondering why... then there's the name Jesus... which actually, i think, contains the 'jah' part of the 4 letter name... two different names, imo... tho some people may say they refer to the same person... depends on the theology... some might say the 4 letters refer to the Father, or the entire trinity, etc...
K
Yes it is a great big conspiracy theory.
D
howdy, danschance!
i just read post #12 here,
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/90218-what-lord-told-me-about-my-anger-pastors.html
(well, ok, i read it an hour or two ago... )
and the first few posts of this thread...
there might be some misunderstanding... maybe we can clear it up... there's the 4 letter name for God found in the ot... the op in the 'pastor' thread was using the english version of it... i was wondering why... then there's the name Jesus... which actually, i think, contains the 'jah' part of the 4 letter name... two different names, imo... tho some people may say they refer to the same person... depends on the theology... some might say the 4 letters refer to the Father, or the entire trinity, etc...
i just read post #12 here,
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/90218-what-lord-told-me-about-my-anger-pastors.html
(well, ok, i read it an hour or two ago...
)and the first few posts of this thread...
there might be some misunderstanding... maybe we can clear it up... there's the 4 letter name for God found in the ot... the op in the 'pastor' thread was using the english version of it... i was wondering why... then there's the name Jesus... which actually, i think, contains the 'jah' part of the 4 letter name... two different names, imo... tho some people may say they refer to the same person... depends on the theology... some might say the 4 letters refer to the Father, or the entire trinity, etc...
All of Israel was Hellenized for 300 years before the birth of Christ. The Romans also brought their influence to Israel (Greco-Roman influence). The bible even mentions Hellenized Jews (Acts 6:1 They are Jews who lived outside of Israel) and the vast majority of them did not speak Hebrew. Prior to the Hellenistic period the Jews returned from Babylon speak Aramaic, not Hebrew. Certainly some did speak Hebrew but not all. The Jews did react to some degree against the Hellenistic advances on their culture. Hebrew was taught by some teachers in an effort to reverse the trend, but those efforts were a spite in the bucket.
Those in the HRM assume all Jews spoke Hebrew, all of the time and this is pipe dream. They assume all the names listed have been altered from Hebrew names and their is no evidence to support this claim. Especially when you consider Paul referred to Peter by an Aramaic name. Those in the HRM are enamored by all things Jewish and are even willing to stoop to revising history. Their is a bible where they have changed the names to Hebrew names. They even even change the Greek words kurios (Lord) and theos (God) to Hebrew names in a very capricious manner and with no evidence to support such alteration. The names of books in the Greek scriptures are even changed to Hebrew.
So you be the judge. What was Jesus' real name? We can only guess or assume, as their is no evidence of any other name than the name listed in scripture, Iesous (EE-AY-SOOS). Does it really matter?
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