A few questions for brave non Israelites;

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M

morninglory

Guest
#41
I've been busy with Christmas, sorry. I PM'd you. I know what you're talking about but I've had trouble finding the thread.
Tintin, not a problem friend, but I would like to talk to you more about what you believe about the new covenant, because much has been hidden in doctrine through the ages, and that was the Lord's own doing, as his method of sifting out those who truly love him, and those that love the world more. The obsurity of Paul's writings is that seive, but we can talk more as time goes along.

Hashem Tzidkeinu
 
M

morninglory

Guest
#42
I think she's getting to break wind of doctrine.

Like I told you, if I am right, it is the Holy Spirit you are insulting. If I am wrong, why can't you show me scripture that proves your point?

Hashem Tzidkeinu
 
Jul 27, 2011
1,622
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#43
[h=3]Revelation 22:7-21[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
 
M

morninglory

Guest
#44

why on earth would i want to convince you to do otherwise?

but if God cannot move you, you will not be moved. don't wait for a man to tell you to do God's​ work.
So you believe all that God laid down for his children to follow, should still be followed? It is not alright for me to follow the Druid holidays and traditions? What if I re name the holidays with a Christian title, and mix some Christian traditions in, would that be ok, as long as I accept Jesus as my Saviour?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#45
Tintin, not a problem friend, but I would like to talk to you more about what you believe about the new covenant, because much has been hidden in doctrine through the ages, and that was the Lord's own doing, as his method of sifting out those who truly love him, and those that love the world more.

The obsurity of Paul's writings is that seive, but we can talk more as time goes along.

Hashem Tzidkeinu
rubbish. the obscurity of Paul's writings?:)
do you like Galatians?
love to hear your twisting of it..

this is all standard:
Hebrew Roots arrogance...and error.
it is you who doesnt not understand.
Christianity is simple. nothing hidden. except for those who twist it.
the NEW Covenant is TOTALLY NEW...not a rehash of the OLD.
heard it all before.


neos, neóteros: young, new
Transliteration: neos, neóteros
Short Definition: new

STRONGS NT 3501: νέος

νέος, νέα, νεσον (allied with Latinnovus, German neu, English new; Curtius, § 433), as in Greek authors from Homer down,
1. recently born, young, youthful: Titus 2:4 (for נַעַר, Genesis 37:2; Exodus 33:11); οἶνος νέος, recently made, Matthew 9:17; Mark 2:22; Luke 5:31-39 (but 39 WH in brackets) (Sir. 9:10).

2. new: 1 Corinthians 5:7; Hebrews 12:24; equivalent to born again, ἄνθρωπος (which see 1 f.), Colossians 3:10. (Synonym: see καινός, at the end.)

STRONGS NT 3501: νεώτεροςνεώτερος, νεωτέρα, νεώτερον (comparitive of νέος, which see) (from Homer down), younger; i. e., a. younger (than now), John 21:18.

b. young, youthful (A. V. younger (relatively)): 1 Timothy 5:11, 14; Titus 2:6; opposed to πρεσβυετεροι, 1 Timothy 5:1; 1 Peter 5:5.

c. (strictly) younger by birth: Luke 15:12f (4 Macc. 12:1).

....

Hebrews 12:24
24and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel

like it or lump it.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#46
So you believe all that God laid down for his children to follow, should still be followed? It is not alright for me to follow the Druid holidays and traditions? What if I re name the holidays with a Christian title, and mix some Christian traditions in, would that be ok, as long as I accept Jesus as my Saviour?
folly...unlearned....a few antichristian tracts and some antichristian jewish sources and PRESTO!
you're uber-informed (not). and sooooo religious (not)

this judaizing and antichrist teaching is not only a joke, it is indeed the sifting - it's y'all who are being sifted OUT.
you can not hold to sound doctrine.
always looking for something to scratch those special ears.
insulting Jesus Christ the savior of the WORLD.

been here read this junk a million times. BORING.
 
M

morninglory

Guest
#47
more i-decided-i-should-be-jewish and observe a Covenant that no longer exists because i read some trash that says Jesus is a pagan name and i feel so spiritual when i pretend i live in 1st century Judea.

i am departing from the Christian faith and feeling supêrior while i do it.
standard stuff.
Zone, you are the other one I was trying to draw out. You keep dissappearing, and leaving my posts un responded to.

First, you're making a statement about me and my beliefs that are false. Especially about the name "Jesus". Since that is the name that was in the Bible that God ordained to surface and flourish in the first time and place of the freedom to read it to the hearts content, and build this nation's Churches, then I totally accept, honor and bless it.

I would like to discuss "the new covenant" with you in a civil manner. I will begin by pointing out that Rev.15.3 says, the song of Moses will be sang with the song of the Lamb, and how you feel that fits with the seperation between the Jews Religion and the Christian faith walk?
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
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#48
Like I told you, if I am right, it is the Holy Spirit you are insulting. If I am wrong, why can't you show me scripture that proves your point?

Hashem Tzidkeinu
Huh? I clearly showed that your premise that one cannot become uncircumcised is wrong, yet you displayed an incapacity or unwillingness to understand what was made obvious.

Here. Now you can't use the "I don't click on links' excuse.

E P I S P A S M

C i r c u m c i s i o n i n R e v e r s e

R O B E R T G. H A L L

"Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised on the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant." So said God to Abraham, establishing the covenant of circumcision, a covenant "between me and you and your descendents after you" (Genesis 17:10,14)

For centuries, Jewish boys have regularly been circumcised when they are eight days old (Genesis 17:12). An unusual challenge to circumcision developed, however, in the Hellenistic period (after about 133 B.C.E*). Hellenistic and Roman societies widely practiced public nakedness. But they abhorred baring the tip of the penis, called the glans. To expose the glans was considered vulgarly humorous, indecent or both. This combination of attitudes could be—and often was—devastating for circumcised Jews. Enjoying oneself in a Greek gymnasium or Roman bath, where nudity was de rigueur, was a popular and stylish pastime. Here politics was discussed and business deals concluded. Athletic contests and exhibitions were also conducted in the nude. Participation in athletics was often a prerequisite for social advancement. Yet a circumcised penis effectively precluded this participation.

Consequently, for hundreds of years some Jews underwent a surgical procedure known as epispasm—an operation that "corrected" a circumcised penis. Some might call it circumcision in reverse. From references and allusions to the procedure in classical and rabbinical literature, it appears that epispasm [CIRP Note: επισπασμοσ, epispasmos] reached its peak of popularity in the first century C.E.

The New Testament reveals bitter conflicts over circumcision among the followers of Jesus, conflicts expressed also in attitudes towards epispasm practiced by Jews. Paul, who thinks circumcision useless, nevertheless forbids epispasm: "Was any one at the time of his call already circumcised? Let him not seek to remove the marks of circumcision," he advises the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 7:18).

Numerous written sources from the second century B.C.E. to the early sixth century C.E. speak about epispasm and attitudes toward it.

During these centuries, foreskins assumed an importance they have rarely had before or since. The Roman emperor Hadrian (117-138 C.E.) loathed circumcision as much as castration—both were unnatural, an offense against the Greek idea of natural beauty of the human body—and outlawed both.1

Males who wished to conceal an exposed glans had several options. Dioscorides, a first century C.E. physician to Nero's troops and master of herbal lore, helped those who, though not circumcised, had a defectively short foreskin. He suggested applying thapsia, an herb that causes swelling.2 this would not work, Dioscorides recognized for those who were circumcised.

Soranus, author of a second-century C.E. medical text, prescribed a different method for correcting defectively short foreskins in infants: The baby's nurse should pull the foreskin forward over the glans and tie it with a thread. "For if gradually stretched and continuously drawn forward, it easily stretches and assumes its normal length an covers the glans and becomes accustomed to keep the natural good shape."3

A simple surgical procedure called infibulation, was another option for a defectively short foreskin. A surgeon would pierce the foreskin to receive a light wooden pin called a fibula.4 With the fibula inserted the foreskin was held neatly closed. Infibulation was supposed to improved the voice and health of adolescent boys, but Celsus, the author of a medical text from the first century C.E., doubts the therapeutic value of infibulation for this purpose.

Infibulation could also be used by those who had been circumcised. Some circumcised Jews concealed their circumcision by drawing the skin around the penis forward and securing it with a fibula—or with twine. Martial, the Roman poet, ridiculed an infibulated Jewish slave5 and derided another Jew whose fibula fell out at the bath.6

The Cadillac of correctives, however, was clearly epispasm: "If the glans is bare and the man wishes for the look of things to have it covered, that can be done," Celsus assured his readers.7 It was a variation of an operation recommended for congenitally short foreskins. For congenitally short foreskins, the surgeon would tie forward the foreskin, Soranus recommended, and cut the sheath of skin around the penis just in front of the pubic bone. When the wound healed, the surgeon would remove the twine.

Epispasm on a circumcised penis required a somewhat more difficult operation: The surgeon would cut around the glans freeing the sheath of skin surrounding the shaft of the penis, pull the skin forward and dress the wound carefully so that the skin would reattach to the glans leaving a foreskin. At a time before effective anesthesia, a man inclined to try this procedure had Celsus' assurance that it was "not so very painful."8

Epiphanus, the fourth century C.E. churchman, tells of a man who was circumcised twice, once as a Samaritan and again as a Jewish proselyte. In the course of the discussion, Epiphanus mentions a spouthisteros, a special implement for performing epispasm. He tells up, "If you can make circumcision uncircumcision, do not marvel at some being circumcised twice."9

Some Jews probably submitted to epispasm because they shared the common Greek and Roman revulsion toward circumcision. Even if they did not, however, societal institutions and attitudes exerted strong pressure against remaining circumcised. Jews of means naturally wanted to participate in gymnasium and bath. Not only were these a chief means of recreation, they also functioned as hubs for business. If Jews exercised or bathed while circumcised, they offended their gentile neighbors and submitted themselves to incredulous ridicule; if they did not attend, everyone knew why—and talked about it. Either way their business would suffer.

Other factors also encouraged epispasm.

Athletics constituted a chief avenue of social advancement for underclass boys. Greek cities competed with each other to grant citizenship to promising boys and to sponsor them at the games. Since athletes exercised and competed without clothes, this avenue was denied to those who were circumcised. What city would sponsor an obscenity?

After the Jewish revolt against Rome in 66-70 C.E., punitive measures against Jews were more easily enforced against those who could be identified because they were circumcised. Suetonius tells of an old man claiming exemption from the most hated of these measures, a two drachma tax to fund the worship of Jupiter. The court stripped the old man in court, found him to be circumcised and fined him.10 A Jewish man could escape such oppressive measures and the stigma attached to them by submitting to epispasm.

Obstacles to citizenship in Greek cities like Alexandria also encouraged Jews to undergo epispasm.11 In Alexandria and perhaps in other cities formed on the Greek model, citizenship and the important privileges that went with it were granted only to ephebes, those trained for citizenship in the ephebaion. Since local law forbade Jews becoming citizens and since ephebes regularly exercised naked in the gymnasium, a Jew who appeared naked with a circumcised penis was unable to circumvent the law. Some Jews did evade the law, however; a Greek delegation from Alexandria complained about this to the emperor.12

Greek and Roman abhorrence of circumcision produced a variety of predictable reactions among Jews. Those who stood vigorously against Greek culture asserted the necessity of circumcision in stronger terms than ever. The Jewish author of Jubilees interpreted Greek culture as the product of the demonic world; circumcision he tells us, lifts Jews out of the evil realm and places them directly under God's rule.13

Other Jews who accepted Greek culture attempted to explain circumcision to the Greeks—and to themselves. A certain Jew named Artapanos (third to second centuries B.C.E.) took a novel approach: Moses founded the religion of Egypt and gave circumcision to Ethiopia.14 If Egyptians and Ethiopians in following their ancestral practices still keep the teachings of Moses, why should Hebrews not keep them as well?

The first century C.E. Jewish philosopher Philo defends circumcision in Greek terms by listing physical and allegorical advantages. Circumcised men are more fertile, less vulnerable to disease and being cleaner, are more fittingly set aside as a nation of priests. In addition the heart begets the thought, which is the highest human excellence; therefore penises should be circumcised to resemble the godly heart. Moreover, circumcision represents the excision of the pleasure of sex, which bewitches the mind.15

Some Jews, faced with overwhelming societal repugnance toward circumcision, probably neglected it. Many of these Jews ceased to practice Judaism at all and quietly faded into the surrounding culture. Other neglected circumcision but actively claimed their Jewish heritage. The evidence for uncircumcised yet practicing Jews is indirect but unequivocal.

For example, Ananius, after successfully convincing Izates, prince of Adiabene, to become a Jew, argued that he should not be circumcised.16 The Jewish author of the Fourth Sybylline Oracle urged gentiles to repent and immerse themselves in water but found no need to mention circumcision. Rabbis debated whether circumcision or immersion in water really made a proselyte.17 Philo tells us that the real proselyte circumcises not his foreskin but his passions.18 Such statements are readily explained if some authorities were contending that a person could be or become a Jew without being circumcised.

Philo rebuked Jews who allegorize the law to abolish Sabbaths, feasts, the Temple and circumcision.19 The Jews interpreted the Torah to justify their neglect of circumcision, which suggests that in their own eyes they remained observant Jews.

Both confirming that many Jews neglected circumcision and affirming the rabbinic commitment to it, the Talmud tells us that Jerusalem fell to the Romans and the Temple was destroyed because Jews "broke the covenant by failing to circumcise their sons."20

Some Jews practiced a form of circumcision that did not show. The reaction can be seen in the Mishnah's* requirement that valid circumcision must bare the glans.21 The need for this ruling implies that some Jews practiced a form of circumcision—perhaps by simply nicking the foreskin—in a way that did not bare the glans. Removing only a little of the foreskin might obviate the need either for infibulation of epispasm. Jews who circumcised in this manner did not set out to abrogate the covenant of circumcision; they merely tried to keep the covenant without offending their gentile neighbors by baring the glans.

That epispasm was fairly widespread among Jews also seems evident from 1 Maccabees 1:11-15, where we are told that some built a gymnasium in Jerusalem and "made themselves uncircumcised."

As might be expected, the rabbinic references to epispasm condemn it (while at the same time reflecting that it must have been a fairly widespread phenomenon).

In Pirkei Avot** 3.16, we are told: "The one who voids the covenant of Abraham has no portion in the world to come."

According to the Talmud,† even Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, cannot eliminate the transgression of epispasm.22

In various midrashim†† several notorious biblical sinners, such as Jehoiakin,23 Achan24 and Adam,25 are said to have submitted to epispasm. As late as the 12th century, The Rambam (Moses Maimonides) stated that "anyone who elongates his foreskin [to conceal his circumcision]" is denied a share of the world to come.26

On the other hand, some talmudic rabbis are less harsh. They consider whether one who has undergone epispasm (a mashuk) should be recircumcised when rejoining the rabbinic fold:

"Rabbi Judah says, `One who has his prepuce drawn forward [i.e., who has submitted to epispasm] should not be recircumcised because it is dangerous.' They said to him, `Many were circumcised [after epispasm] in the time of Ben Koziba and they had children and did not die.'27

The references to epispasm here date from the second century B.C.E. to early in the sixth century C.E. As we have seen, however, epispasm was only one reaction to the Greco-Roman abhorrence of circumcision. Some Jews who rejected Greek culture heightened the religious and social importance of circumcision: Circumcision delivered one from evil. Others, like Philo, impressed by Greek philosophy, used arguments consonant with Greek presuppositions to support the practice of circumcision. Still others thought their religious obligation was fulfilled if only a minute part of the foreskin was removed. Those who interpreted the Torah by Greek methods and sensitivities, argued that the law, when properly understood, did not require literal circumcision. Such a wide spectrum of views allowed plenty of room for Jewish men to practice epispasm while still living as Jews. Many of these men never thought they had violated the covenant. They only wanted to live in both worlds. They had received circumcision; the second operation only made their circumcision less conspicuous.28

Readers of ) will remember how central the debates over circumcision were to the development of early Christianity.**** Since the early church was part of the Jewish community, the Christian debate can be seen as part of the Jewish discussion about circumcision. Like the Jewish community at large, the church was divided between those who required circumcision and those who did not. Many Christians despised the arguments of those who in their view sought to gain the approval of their gentile neighbors by neglecting the covenant of Abraham. If circumcision defines the sphere where God acts on behalf of his people and uncircumcision defines the sphere of demonic control, then Jesus must act among the circumcised; circumcision is required.

When Paul in Galatians (6:15) claims that circumcision is irrelevant or when Luke asserts that gentiles entering the people of God need not circumcise themselves (Acts 15:19-29, they enter a debate that has already solidified. All the arguments have already been made and answered; the two sides glower at one another across an unbridgeable gulf. Merely repeating well-known arguments would hardly convince anyone. Paul and Luke can persuade only by transcending the former arguments; they can obtain a hearing only from the party whose arguments they adopt.

Paul enters the fray accepting the arguments of the circumcision party. Paul agrees that the world has been divided into two spheres, the sphere of the circumcised where God has acted, and the sphere of the uncircumcised "gentile sinners" where demons rule (cf. Galatians 2:15). But for Paul the world is where this distinction rightly applies is passing away: "[Christ] gave himself for our sins to deliver us from this present evil world according to the will of God the Father" (Galatian 1:3-4). Distinctions between circumcised and uncircumcised, proper to the old world, do not apply in the new. Since in Christ Christians are leaving the old world, circumcision has no relevance for them: "But far be it from me to glory except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me and I to the world. For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but a new creation" (Galatians 6;14-15).

Luke also begins by accepting circumcision: he carefully depicts the circumcision of both John the Baptist and Jesus (Luke 1:59, 2:21). But after the resurrection Jesus reveals a new plan of God to a very puzzled group of disciples (Luke 24:36-49), a new plan that includes gentiles (Luke 24:47). In Acts, Luke works out the consequences of this plan and chronicles the revelation to the disciples that under the new plan gentiles do not require circumcision (chapter 15).

By accepting as valid the arguments of the circumcision party, Paul and Luke could hope that their argument would be heard. By tying their conclusion that circumcision is no longer necessary to the new thing Christ has done, they could hope that the might convince Christians of the circumcision party who, of course, agreed that God had done something new by sending the Messiah. By denying the necessity of circumcision they could expect to attract gentiles to belief in Jesus. How well Paul, Luke and others like them succeeded appears from the result: Eventually the Church abandoned circumcision. The ancestors of modern Judaism did not; the wide variety of Jewish views on circumcision evidently died with the Hellenistic civilization that gave them birth, and Jews returned to the almost universal practice of the ritual of circumcision.

Epispasm: Circumcision in Reverse
 
M

morninglory

Guest
#49
folly...unlearned....a few antichristian tracts and some antichristian jewish sources and PRESTO!
you're uber-informed (not). and sooooo religious (not)

this judaizing and antichrist teaching is not only a joke, it is indeed the sifting - it's y'all who are being sifted OUT.
you can not hold to sound doctrine.
always looking for something to scratch those special ears.
insulting Jesus Christ the savior of the WORLD.

been here read this junk a million times. BORING.
Just read you second post, how like you to avoid the issue. It is my guess, you can't defend your beliefs with scripture, so you hide behind not being willing to. I will have to admit, you are good on the computer! Cute stuff.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
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#50
The obsurity of Paul's writings is that seive, but we can talk more as time goes along.
Peter said some of the things Paul wrote are hard to understand, not all of them. The "Paul's writings are hard to understand' angle is just a ruse by law cultists to try to discredit things he said while pretending to have respect for them. Paul's writings are easy you understand... if you have the spirit.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#51
Just read you second post, how like you to avoid the issue. It is my guess, you can't defend your beliefs with scripture, so you hide behind not being willing to. I will have to admit, you are good on the computer! Cute stuff.
you haven't listed what big bad Constantine did.
do so here.
i'll debunk you later:














.....
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#52
Peter said some of the things Paul wrote are hard to understand, not all of them. The "Paul's writings are hard to understand' ruse is just a tactic used by law cultists to try to discredit things he said while pretending to have respect for them. Paul's writings are easy you understand... if you have the spirit.
they hate Galatians. and that Paul made CLEAR the new covenant contains all the commandments of God from the OT (NO SABBATH though which they don't understand).

they do not receive instruction from the New Covenant Testament, they look for ways to circumvent the Old Covenant Laws to pretend they are religious.

that's what paul said.
and that's what they don't like.
 
M

morninglory

Guest
#53
Huh? I clearly showed that your premise that one cannot become uncircumcised is wrong, yet you displayed an incapacity or unwillingness to understand what was made obvious.

Here. Now you can't use the "I don't click on links' excuse.

I see you did not read the scriptures I gave you on the other thread. Abraham was not circumcised because it was the law, he was circumcised as an act of faith, it is the faith of Abraham that the Gentiles are called to. So knowing that the act of circumcision cannot make us righteous, as Paul clearly made known, I ask you, is it wrong to be circumcised as an act of Faith as our Father Abraham did?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#54
Just read you second post, how like you to avoid the issue. It is my guess, you can't defend your beliefs with scripture, so you hide behind not being willing to. I will have to admit, you are good on the computer! Cute stuff.
i thought we were going to go the distance.
cite your sources that Christianity (i bet ya hate even the word Christian) was corrupted by Greek(s).
i'll wait.

cite all sources.
if you don't, i will.
hurry.....you were anxious to go the distance.
revealing your secrets, little by little - gnostic-style.

go for it.

you'll disappear and come back later with more of the same unproven veiled JUNK.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,688
13,140
113
#55
So you believe all that God laid down for his children to follow, should still be followed? It is not alright for me to follow the Druid holidays and traditions? What if I re name the holidays with a Christian title, and mix some Christian traditions in, would that be ok, as long as I accept Jesus as my Saviour?

When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made youalive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

(Collosians 2:13-19)

are we saved or condemned by the festivals we keep, or by the God we serve?

 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
#56
Now I want tos say
satan is not a name

satan means "The accuser of the brethren"

instead of using his name which no one in heaven speaks anymore because he is so evil

when we say
"You are from _
or You ar in error
or you are this
or you are that
then that person is a minister of satan.

let us drive satan out of here

the liklihood, the dissension is because the doctrine is one side or another a tradition of man
which is ALWAYS WRONG

satan does the sifting
Jesus doesnt want us sifted..
Jesus prays for us.

let us pray for Jesus to keep us in the TRUTH


Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Now reading the Bible
it says the majority of the world will be tricked by satan false doctrine
the truth is a narrow way

the truth is just what the Bible says
not what people tell us

so if you cant show from the Bible what you believe it is because some evangelest told it to you and you never studied it

so likely it is wrong

whatever you don't know and cant show
just treat it like error until you can find it is error.
 
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M

morninglory

Guest
#57
i thought we were going to go the distance.
cite your sources that Christianity (i bet ya hate even the word Christian) was corrupted by Greek(s).
i'll wait.

cite all sources.
if you don't, i will.


hurry.....you were anxious to go the distance.
revealing your secrets, little by little - gnostic-style.

go for it.

you'll disappear and come back later with more of the same unproven veiled JUNK.
Zone, what are you talking about? It is so abstract, it is hard to get a handle on it. Again, what you are saying does not pertain to me at all. Is that more avoidance, or are you confusing me with someone else?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#58
Tintin, You are just the person I was looking for. I want to discuss your version of the "New Covenant".
We have talked before, 2the waters, there are two other people that cannot go the distance in a discussion, that is who I wanted to draw out. Thank you. I am sure there will be more to say as the discussion gets going.

Peace
i don't have you confused with anyone.

1) let's go the distance
2) let's hear YOUR version of the quote marks for emphasis NEW COVENANT end quote marks.

new covenant explained here by morninglory:












...

don't waste time.
just post on it; and cite your authoritative sources.
i'm busy, and you're ignorant AND arrogant.

POST. let's have the big tough paul secret stuff you found.
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
#59
Paul in Romans was talking of the law of ordinances (Jewish system)
The law of God was with adam and eve or they could not have sinned
the law of God is eternal
the reason most churches lump them together is some catholic monk lumped them together in 400 ad and no one studies.
There are many versions of the bible they all say to keep the ten commandments

if you choose not to believe and study for yourself you will have no excuse.

the sticking point for the churchs is they do not want to change their stand on two or three commandments
so they would rather have all their church members be lost
ANd keep making money.


Jesus told this story to the LEADERS of the church in his day

vLuke 20:9 Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.Luke 20:10 And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty.
Luke 20:11 And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.
Luke 20:12 And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.
Luke 20:13 Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.
Luke 20:14 But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.
Luke 20:15 So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?
Luke 20:16 He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.
it still applies.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#60
skipping over post by 2Thewaters ....waiting for morninglory's PROOFS.
start with Constantine.

i presume the trinity is high up on the list of pagan ideas.
use this space and cite your sources:












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