A very critical difference between the old and new covenants

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Dec 12, 2013
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All good scriptures...how about context...especially Hebrews 10 which has nothing at all to do with biblical salvation and justification, but rather forsaking the assembling together with God's people in way of assembly capacity worship.........Come on HIZ.....CONTEXT, CONTEXT and I must say CONTEXT!


Hebrews 12:3-11, "For consider Him Who endured such opposition against Himself from sinners, so that you would not become weary, and faint in your minds. You yourselves have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as unto sons: My son, do not despise the chastening of Yahweh, nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; For whom Yahweh loves, He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives. If you endure chastening, Yahweh deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? But if you are without chastening, of which all are partakers, then you are bastards and not sons. Furthermore, we have had fleshly fathers who corrected us, and we gave them reverence; should we not even more be subject to Father Yahweh, and live? For they truly chastened us for a few days as they thought best; but He, for our profit, that we might be partakers of His holiness. Now no chastening seems to be joyful at the present time, but grievous; nevertheless, afterward it produces the peaceable fruit of righteousness, that is, for those who have been trained by it"


Hebrews 12:12-17, "Therefore, strengthen the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; And follow the straight paths made for your feet, so that the lame may not be turned out of the way, but rather may be healed. Follow peace with all men; and holiness, without which no one will see Yahweh: Searching diligently, so that no one falls short of the honor of Yahweh; so that no root of bitterness grows up to cause trouble--for because of this, many are defiled; So that there is no a, fornicator nor profane person, like Esau, Who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected; for he found no way for repentance, though with tears sought it out."

Hebrews 10:26-31, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Those who rejected the Law given through Mosheh died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished, who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, and has counted the blood of the covenant (with which He was sanctified) an unholy thing, and who has insulted the Spirit of mercy? For we know Him Who has said: Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says Yahweh. And again: Yahweh will judge His people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living Father."

LOVE YOU ALL `HIZ OUT!
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
All good scriptures...how about context...especially Hebrews 10 which has nothing at all to do with biblical salvation and justification, but rather forsaking the assembling together with God's people in way of assembly capacity worship.........Come on HIZ.....CONTEXT, CONTEXT and I must say CONTEXT!

How can you keep saying Hebrews 10 has nothing to do with salvation/eternal life when it clearly says in verse 27 those who continue to sin willfully after receiving the truth through the Lord will face judgment and a place in the lake of fire (fiery indignation)?
 
Jan 19, 2013
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How can you keep saying Hebrews 10 has nothing to do with salvation/eternal life when it clearly says in verse 27 those who continue to sin willfully after receiving the truth through the Lord will face judgment and a place in the lake of fire (fiery indignation)?
The sin referred to is unbelief, where the sacrifice of Christ is no remedy through faith in him.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
The sin referred to is unbelief, where the sacrifice of Christ is no remedy through faith in him.
Thanks for answering, but that was not the question I asked.
As this passage in Hebrews 10 clearly says they received the truth but continued to keep willfully sinning, and therefore they go before judgment and cast to the lake of fire. Showing that a believer once he receives the Lord can not continue to live in willful sins.

Plus you do realize that the bible also says that disobedience in following what He said is considered sin of unbelief as well ???
 
Dec 12, 2013
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How can you keep saying Hebrews 10 has nothing to do with salvation/eternal life when it clearly says in verse 27 those who continue to sin willfully after receiving the truth through the Lord will face judgment and a place in the lake of fire (fiery indignation)?
\

Because the context is directed at HEBREW CHRISTIANS who have forsaken the assembling together for the purpose of worship and in so doing count the blood of Jesus a common ordinary base thing....they will be judged which is not necessarily indicative of being cast into the LAKE OF FIRE.....SOMETIMES people are DESTROYED in the FLESH, yet the SPIRIT IS STILL SAVED...why is it that you cannot comprehend this!

NOT forsaking the assembling of ourselves together as the manner of SOME.....is the context....NOT being SAVED and or NOT SAVED........Do you even understand why the book of HEBREWS WAS WRITTEN?????????

JEWS who were saved were wanting to DEFECT and go back UNDER THE LAW and the ORDINANCES of the LAW.......!
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Thanks for answering, but that was not the question I asked.
As this passage in Hebrews 10 clearly says they received the truth but continued to keep willfully sinning,
The context of the letter is to Christian Hebrews who were thinking of returning to Judaism because of the rejection and persecution of their families and friends.

To return to Judaism is to keep on sinning the rejection of Christ (unbelief), which is why
the author says they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace,
as did the Jews who originally murdered him with the help of wicked men (Ac 7:52).
 
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AtonedFor

Guest
The context of the letter is to Christian Hebrews ...
The context of almost all of the NT is NOT to you ...
'Tis to da peoples back then.
 

damombomb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2011
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Thanks for answering, but that was not the question I asked.
As this passage in Hebrews 10 clearly says they received the truth but continued to keep willfully sinning, and therefore they go before judgment and cast to the lake of fire. Showing that a believer once he receives the Lord can not continue to live in willful sins.


2cor3:14…13and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. 14But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. 15But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart;…
 
Jan 27, 2013
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hebrews explains, what and how this new covenant came in to being, ie calling it. a new covenant.

28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.Matthew 26

28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.Hebrews 9

hebrews was wrote about 60 ad, there still being a temple of stone.
70 ad there is no temple. so how can the full law be followed to the letter.

22 I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.Revelation 21



in this time line god must have had a different plan ie with jesus dealing with sin under a old covenant.
with penecost at 32 ad starts a new covenant to the jewish believers who were there, to gentiles being told about jesus.

i still wonder, ware some get there definition to what sin is. (acts 15)
because 70ad proves, not one person can follow the full law that was given to moses with out a temple of stone because of the requirement the temple had on this law.


6 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.1


John 14: I Am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life
"6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him."
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
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Because the context is directed at HEBREW CHRISTIANS who have forsaken the assembling together for the purpose of worship and in so doing count the blood of Jesus a common ordinary base thing....they will be judged which is not necessarily indicative of being cast into the LAKE OF FIRE.....SOMETIMES people are DESTROYED in the FLESH, yet the SPIRIT IS STILL SAVED...why is it that you cannot comprehend this!

NOT forsaking the assembling of ourselves together as the manner of SOME.....is the context....NOT being SAVED and or NOT SAVED........Do you even understand why the book of HEBREWS WAS WRITTEN?????????

JEWS who were saved were wanting to DEFECT and go back UNDER THE LAW and the ORDINANCES of the LAW.......!

Yes I understand why it was written, but yet you still only look at part of verse 27, as it says judgment and fiery indignation. It says both, and not just judgment. And the bible states that not doing as the Lord said is considered unbelief as well, as it categorizes disobedience as unbelief.
 
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AtonedFor

Guest
But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart;…
We duzn't want to be too picky, duz we, but ...

a veil lies over their hearts ...
which reminds me ...
a veil lies over our hearts (if we were Jewish) ...
which reminds me ...
we shouldn't love our lives to the death
which reminds me ...
they shouldn't love their lives to the death
etc.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
The context of the letter is to Christian Hebrews who were thinking of returning to Judaism because of the rejection and persecution of their families and friends.

To return to Judaism is to keep on sinning the rejection of Christ (unbelief), which is why
the author says they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace,
as did the Jews who originally murdered him with the help of wicked men (Ac 7:52).

My question was how can one say it has nothing to do with eternal life/salvation.
The part in verse 27 says judgment and fiery indignation, not just judgment, and the fiery indignation is the lake of fire that the unbelievers and disobedient are sent. Also notice the writer in Hebrews considers himself in the equation as he says, " if we, " and not if you continue to sin. He puts himself in the equation because this applies to all believers, that if you continue in willful sins Christ sacrifice is of no effect to you because you are disgracing Him and what He did.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin said:
The context of the letter is to Christian Hebrews who were thinking of returning to Judaism because of the rejection and persecution of their families and friends.

To return to Judaism is to keep on sinning the rejection of Christ (unbelief),
which is why
the author says they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace,
as did the Jews who originally murdered him with the help of wicked men (Ac 7:52).
My question was how can one say it has nothing to do with eternal life/salvation.
The part in verse 27 says judgment and fiery indignation, not just judgment, and the fiery indignation is the lake of fire that the unbelievers and disobedient are sent. Also notice the writer in Hebrews considers himself in the equation as he says, " if we, " and not if you continue to sin. He puts himself in the equation because this applies to all believers, that if you continue in willful sins Christ sacrifice is of no effect to you because you are disgracing Him and what He did.
It has nothing to do with losing salvation.

Those who returned to Judaism had counterfeit faith and fell away from their profession of faith
because they were never saved. They did not lose their salvation. They never had it.

Those with true faith heeded the warning and did not fall away from their profession of faith.
 
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Dec 12, 2013
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Yes I understand why it was written, but yet you still only look at part of verse 27, as it says judgment and fiery indignation. It says both, and not just judgment. And the bible states that not doing as the Lord said is considered unbelief as well, as it categorizes disobedience as unbelief.
Why don't you look up fiery indignation and see exactly what it means.....the word of God is specific and it does not say LAKE OF FIRE and or HELL....so...look up the words and COME to a good understanding....

Every now and then I get so mad that I equate it to be SMOKING HOT....does that mean that smoke is pouring off of me because I am HOT?

It amazes me how many things you go to seed on while taking the English at face value while not understanding what the words actually mean....

Here I will help you with this....

Fiery=fire, literal or figurative...especially lightning, fiery
indignation=zelos=ZEAL, jealousy

Now, add those two words together and tell me how that equals hell or the lake of fire......!

Fiery zeal or jealousy that is hot or fiery.......

Wake up to the truth and start studying the words Kenneth as it will set you free from heresy and incorrect interpretations....!
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
It has nothing to do with losing salvation.

Those who returned to Judaism had counterfeit faith and fell away from their profession of faith
because they were never saved. They did not lose their salvation. They never had it.

Those with true faith heeded the warning and did not fall away from their profession of faith.

I did not say it did have anything to do with losing salvation, as these in this scripture never had it.
But it does show that mere belief does not save, as in believe only but your actions do not have to follow your belief that you have in Him. One's outer actions do have to show that their belief in Him is true.
If you continue walking in sins, hatred, unforgiveness, and no mercy toward others the bible says the Truth is not in you.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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I did not say it did have anything to do with losing salvation, as these in this scripture never had it.
But it does show that mere belief does not save, as in believe only but your actions do not have to follow your belief that you have in Him. One's outer actions do have to show that their belief in Him is true.
If you continue walking in sins, hatred, unforgiveness, and no mercy toward others the bible says the Truth is not in you.
Sorry, I think I misunderstood you.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
Why don't you look up fiery indignation and see exactly what it means.....the word of God is specific and it does not say LAKE OF FIRE and or HELL....so...look up the words and COME to a good understanding....

Every now and then I get so mad that I equate it to be SMOKING HOT....does that mean that smoke is pouring off of me because I am HOT?


It amazes me how many things you go to seed on while taking the English at face value while not understanding what the words actually mean....

Here I will help you with this....

Fiery=fire, literal or figurative...especially lightning, fiery
indignation=zelos=ZEAL, jealousy

Now, add those two words together and tell me how that equals hell or the lake of fire......!

Fiery zeal or jealousy that is hot or fiery.......

Wake up to the truth and start studying the words Kenneth as it will set you free from heresy and incorrect interpretations....!

Sorry but I have looked this up from multiple sources, and it is not about getting mad or jealous.
This is speaking of those who receive the word, but do not accept it and the Lord as their savior. They then continue to sin willfully threading underfoot the blood of Christ. The fiery indignation that devours the adversaries is the lake of fire that devours (destroys) the spirit.....

If you make yourself an adversary to God you are not getting eternal life......
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
Sorry, I think I misunderstood you.
It is ok as the way I word things because I have never been good at speech. But neither was Moses or Paul, so I am in good company......:D
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Sorry but I have looked this up from multiple sources, and it is not about getting mad or jealous.
This is speaking of those who receive the word, but do not accept it and the Lord as their savior. They then continue to sin willfully threading underfoot the blood of Christ. The fiery indignation that devours the adversaries is the lake of fire that devours (destroys) the spirit.....

If you make yourself an adversary to God you are not getting eternal life......
This just proves you are unwilling to bend to the truth of what the words actually say.....good luck with your rejection of truth and denial of words and rebellious attitude toward the inspired word......!


Fiery=fire, literal or figurative...especially lightning, fiery
indignation=zelos=ZEAL, jealousy

Zelos is not ORGE so again good luck
 
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