-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Wow, you are really struggling with this. The "dead" in 1 Thes 4 are physically dead but spiritually alive before their souls come back to earth. The "mess" I teach is the same "mess" Christ and His apostles teach so you might want to choose your words more carefully
. I am trying to help you and others who are struggling with this topic. Read the Book of John again with an eye for this as he goes in depth explaining both resurrections. Especially read John Chapter 3 although it is discussed throughout.[SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
Can you see the two births in the above passage? The most famous passage in the entire Bible and you have yet to fully understand it?
[SUP]12 [/SUP]If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
It is REALLY Super important that every Christian understand this. This is one of the most fundamental Christian concepts in the entire Word. This is the verse that everyone cites so I'm shocked that so many don't really understand it.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Think about what the above is actually teaching. Every body dies physically, (rapture aside) right? This passage tells us that if you believe in Christ you will not die. Why? Because once you accept Christ you experience the first resurrection. From this point forward you are spiritually alive and will never die. Obviously we do not have everlasting physical life do we? 2,000 years of Church history prove this.
1st resurrection - we accept Christ and become born again (we are now spiritually alive). Those who do not accept Christ will die twice. Therefore, second death has no power over those of us who are born again.
John is the author of both Revelation and John (obviously) so this lesson from Rev 20 is telling us exactly the same thing:
Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
The above applies not only to the beheaded, "non beast marked" but all of us who are saved. The moment we accept Christ and become SAVED we are "with" Christ never to die spiritually. When we physically die our soul, which is alive, immediately goes to heaven. We immediately are living and reigning in heaven with Christ.
Later, at the end of days (current earth age) we return with Christ and receive our new bodies. This is the Second Resurrection.
Last edited:
What is the faith of the Persians? What is the faith of the Libyans? What is the faith of the Ethiopians?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya are with them...
Look at the below map of this future battle. What is the faith of these people?
Russia likely leads this attack. They don't want to as they go unwillingly. But these are Russia's allies. Russia has sided with the Beast against Israel.
Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal. [SUP]4 [/SUP]I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and lead you out...
If you look at the world today, who wants to see Israel wiped off the planet??? The Romans (Italy)?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya are with them...
Look at the below map of this future battle. What is the faith of these people?
Russia likely leads this attack. They don't want to as they go unwillingly. But these are Russia's allies. Russia has sided with the Beast against Israel.
Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal. [SUP]4 [/SUP]I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and lead you out...
If you look at the world today, who wants to see Israel wiped off the planet??? The Romans (Italy)?
My apology for calling you bluto, popeye. The fact of the matter is, I need a new pair of glasses badly. I'll be 93 in Dec. How well do you think you will do at that age, living alone, completely independent, with no outside help at all? Incidentally, my eldest son is your age, 71.
Quasar92
Last edited:
No friend, respectfully as you are senior to me, it is you who are completely wrong about this.
Daniel 9 is completely over. It was in the past and ended at the Cross. The "Abomination of Desolation" is not even mentioned in Daniel 9. Instead it is found in Dan 11 and 12. This common mistake has fooled many.
The "he" in Dan 9:27 is Christ. Christ does all those things. Remember 70 weeks were determined. No gap is taught. They were a continual 70 weeks just as the passage says. Foolish men invented a 2000+ year gap simply because they were not able to understand the message of Dan 9:27 which I've explained on here several times. I won't repeat it all but let me try one more time to explain this part.
...and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate...
The above is NOT the Abomination of Desolation as spoken of by Daniel as Jesus invokes as the start of the Great Tribulation. Rather, this is telling us that because of the many abominable sins of the Jews of His day, Christ will make their temple desolate. He doesn't do it then, He allows Titus to do it 40 years later. Titus was the "prince to come" in Dan 9:26. Titus was mentioned in the previous verse as the one who would destroy the city and temple.
1 Thes 4 and 5 go together as one continuous message. The passage is discussing the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord ushers in the next earth age. The Great Tribulation is not the start of the next earth age, it is the Day of the Lord which ushers in the next age. Therefore, the "last day" which is where we find the resurrection and rapture happens at the start of the Day of the Lord.
The Great Tribulation lasts <45 days as Daniel teaches in Dan 12. I say less than or equal to 45 days because of two facts: 1) We cannot know the day or hour when Christ returns, 2) the days of the GT are cut short for the sake of the Elect.
Daniel 9 is completely over. It was in the past and ended at the Cross. The "Abomination of Desolation" is not even mentioned in Daniel 9. Instead it is found in Dan 11 and 12. This common mistake has fooled many.
The "he" in Dan 9:27 is Christ. Christ does all those things. Remember 70 weeks were determined. No gap is taught. They were a continual 70 weeks just as the passage says. Foolish men invented a 2000+ year gap simply because they were not able to understand the message of Dan 9:27 which I've explained on here several times. I won't repeat it all but let me try one more time to explain this part.
...and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate...
The above is NOT the Abomination of Desolation as spoken of by Daniel as Jesus invokes as the start of the Great Tribulation. Rather, this is telling us that because of the many abominable sins of the Jews of His day, Christ will make their temple desolate. He doesn't do it then, He allows Titus to do it 40 years later. Titus was the "prince to come" in Dan 9:26. Titus was mentioned in the previous verse as the one who would destroy the city and temple.
1 Thes 4 and 5 go together as one continuous message. The passage is discussing the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord ushers in the next earth age. The Great Tribulation is not the start of the next earth age, it is the Day of the Lord which ushers in the next age. Therefore, the "last day" which is where we find the resurrection and rapture happens at the start of the Day of the Lord.
The Great Tribulation lasts <45 days as Daniel teaches in Dan 12. I say less than or equal to 45 days because of two facts: 1) We cannot know the day or hour when Christ returns, 2) the days of the GT are cut short for the sake of the Elect.
Last edited:
Yes we have these things but they are NOT the mark of the Beast. The "Mark of the Beast" is not a literal mark that people see. Just as the "seal of the living God" in Rev 7:2-4 is not a literal seal in the foreheads of the 144,000. You don't put a seal inside of someone's brain. In the case of the sealed, they are sealed with the knowledge of God and cannot be affected by the lies of Satan.
As for the "Mark of the Beast" it just means they are numbered with the Beast or are members of the Beast Alliance. The Beast of course was the Ottoman Empire which went away and comes back in the same region.
The Beast is the ISLAMIC Empire which kills Christians, Jews and Muslims who will not join their Caliphate or at least swear an allegiance to them. The Ottoman Empire killed an estimated 50 million Christians over their 600 year history. They killed Christians by beheading. The new Ottoman Empire is forming now as we are seeing it RIGHT NOW!!
ISIS stands for the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. Obama refuses to use this term. Ever wonder why? We all call them ISIS and most politicians call them ISIS except for those in the Obama Administration. Most members of the media call them ISIS, even the liberal press. But Obama, and those in his administration, call them instead ISIL.
ISIL stands for the ISLAMIC STATE OF IRAQ AND THE LEVANT. Obama is giving them credit for already having taken over the entire Holy Land and extended eastern Med. Is this wishful thinking or a slip of the tongue, or is it a foreshadowing of things to come? You decide.
As for the "Mark of the Beast" it just means they are numbered with the Beast or are members of the Beast Alliance. The Beast of course was the Ottoman Empire which went away and comes back in the same region.
The Beast is the ISLAMIC Empire which kills Christians, Jews and Muslims who will not join their Caliphate or at least swear an allegiance to them. The Ottoman Empire killed an estimated 50 million Christians over their 600 year history. They killed Christians by beheading. The new Ottoman Empire is forming now as we are seeing it RIGHT NOW!!
ISIS stands for the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. Obama refuses to use this term. Ever wonder why? We all call them ISIS and most politicians call them ISIS except for those in the Obama Administration. Most members of the media call them ISIS, even the liberal press. But Obama, and those in his administration, call them instead ISIL.
ISIL stands for the ISLAMIC STATE OF IRAQ AND THE LEVANT. Obama is giving them credit for already having taken over the entire Holy Land and extended eastern Med. Is this wishful thinking or a slip of the tongue, or is it a foreshadowing of things to come? You decide.
OMG, you are reading Rev 20 wrong too. There are no additional resurrections taught there either. I will attempt to walk you through the part of Rev 20 where you are still confused.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:
These thrones are in heaven. They belong to the 24 elders. These thrones are there in heaven right now and have been. The throne room scene is taught in Rev 5.
...and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;
John is seeing in addition to the 24 elders in the throne room a specific set of Christians from his future, our past. These are the 50 million beheaded (or otherwise killed) Christians from the Ottoman Empire (1,299 to 1,922). Some were from before the empire officially came into being which happened when the Eastern Roman Empire fell at Constantinople in 1,299. The Muslims were killing Christians and Jews before this going back to the Crusades and even before that, as early as Muhammad. John is simply saying that he saw these future souls because they were in his future. John is saying they were faithful to Christ and were martyred by the Ottoman Beast.
More are being added to their ranks now as we see at the 5th seal. But those don't have to wait 1,000 years.
and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
This is the passage which most get the idea of a millennial earthly reign of Christ. Christ does come to earth to reign but there is no teaching of its length. This passage pertains to how long those beheaded are reigning in heaven with Christ. Some are already over 1,000 years, some are less. The 1,000 years I believe, just denotes a long period of time.
So, all in heaven are alive and reigning having been part of the first resurrection which means their soul was saved and when they died physically, they got to go to heaven. It really is this simple.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
The wording here is a little funny. John throws in the fact that the rest of the dead won't live again until the 1,000 years are over. Here he is discussing the unsaved. Since the unsaved never took part in the first resurrection, they have to wait to come back to life in the second bodily resurrection. In other words, the unsaved missed the first resurrection so they have to wait for the 1,000 years in heaven to conclude. The first resurrection is only for those in heaven, who John discusses in verse 4.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.
The saved are blessed and holy. They took part in the first resurrection in which their souls were saved. They will not face the second death which the unbeliever faces. This part is pretty self-explanatory.
...but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
And so they are right now.
Ask yourself, when does Christ begin to reign? Mary is told that her son will reign before Jesus is even born, right?
Luke 1:33
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
But, when does this reign begin? It did not begin when He was doing His ministry even though the Romans called Him, "the King of the Jews." We are told when Christ's reign begins right here!!
Romans 15:12
And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
It is when Christ arose that Christ began to reign over the world. It is when Christ rose and returned to heaven that He received the Kingdom. Daniel saw this some 500-600 years before it happened.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
The kingdom came without observation.
Luke 17:20
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
This is true for the first resurrection. It comes without observation (except for the one being saved will feel it.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:
These thrones are in heaven. They belong to the 24 elders. These thrones are there in heaven right now and have been. The throne room scene is taught in Rev 5.
...and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;
John is seeing in addition to the 24 elders in the throne room a specific set of Christians from his future, our past. These are the 50 million beheaded (or otherwise killed) Christians from the Ottoman Empire (1,299 to 1,922). Some were from before the empire officially came into being which happened when the Eastern Roman Empire fell at Constantinople in 1,299. The Muslims were killing Christians and Jews before this going back to the Crusades and even before that, as early as Muhammad. John is simply saying that he saw these future souls because they were in his future. John is saying they were faithful to Christ and were martyred by the Ottoman Beast.
More are being added to their ranks now as we see at the 5th seal. But those don't have to wait 1,000 years.
and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
This is the passage which most get the idea of a millennial earthly reign of Christ. Christ does come to earth to reign but there is no teaching of its length. This passage pertains to how long those beheaded are reigning in heaven with Christ. Some are already over 1,000 years, some are less. The 1,000 years I believe, just denotes a long period of time.
So, all in heaven are alive and reigning having been part of the first resurrection which means their soul was saved and when they died physically, they got to go to heaven. It really is this simple.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
The wording here is a little funny. John throws in the fact that the rest of the dead won't live again until the 1,000 years are over. Here he is discussing the unsaved. Since the unsaved never took part in the first resurrection, they have to wait to come back to life in the second bodily resurrection. In other words, the unsaved missed the first resurrection so they have to wait for the 1,000 years in heaven to conclude. The first resurrection is only for those in heaven, who John discusses in verse 4.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.
The saved are blessed and holy. They took part in the first resurrection in which their souls were saved. They will not face the second death which the unbeliever faces. This part is pretty self-explanatory.
...but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
And so they are right now.
Ask yourself, when does Christ begin to reign? Mary is told that her son will reign before Jesus is even born, right?
Luke 1:33
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
But, when does this reign begin? It did not begin when He was doing His ministry even though the Romans called Him, "the King of the Jews." We are told when Christ's reign begins right here!!
Romans 15:12
And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
It is when Christ arose that Christ began to reign over the world. It is when Christ rose and returned to heaven that He received the Kingdom. Daniel saw this some 500-600 years before it happened.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
The kingdom came without observation.
Luke 17:20
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
This is true for the first resurrection. It comes without observation (except for the one being saved will feel it.
Last edited:
Just because figurative or symbolic language is used did not make prophecy in the past to not occur literally. Jesus was not a fuzzy white lamb but He still did died. He did not figuratively or spiritually die - He literally died. And He did not figuratively or spiritually rise from the dead - He literally rose from the dead. Just because symbolic language is used does not mean nothing visible and literal happens when it is fulfilled.
God is not going to send Enoch and Elijah back to their physical bodies to be killed by the antichrist. Besides, Elijah already came back as John the Baptist. How many times does the man have to die?
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands.” [SUP]13 [/SUP]Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist.
Revelation is a study of contrasts between good and evil. I think I made a pretty good case that the two witnesses are the Temple (Jews) and the NT Church (Gentiles). They are the saved.
I agree. Something absolutely happens in the physical or spiritual realm. Maybe I can illustrate it better by showing you some actual examples of the OT passage where John gets his figuratively language.
John uses the term "Babylon" in Revelation a lot. He calls it the "Mother of all Harlots." If you take it literally, Babylon would be the first or biggest prostitute in the world. Is that what John means? No.
Ezekiel 6:9
Then those of you who escape will remember Me among the nations where they are carried captive, because I was crushed by their adulterous heart which has departed from Me, and by their eyes which play the harlot after their idols; they will loathe themselves for the evils which they committed in all their abominations.
Micah 1:7
All her carved images shall be beaten to pieces, And all her pay as a harlot shall be burned with the fire; All her idols I will lay desolate, For she gathered it from the pay of a harlot, And they shall return to the pay of a harlot.”
So we now know a "harlot" is idol worship. Any idol worship is tied to a religion. So, Mystery Babylon is either the oldest, or biggest false religion on the planet. Can you guess which one? So, what about Babylon, why is John calling it Babylon? Because their forefathers are from Babylon.
Psalm 137:8
O daughter of Babylon, who are to be destroyed, Happy the one who repays you as you have served us!
Isaiah 47:1
“Come down and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon; Sit on the ground without a throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans! For you shall no more be called Tender and delicate.
Jeremiah 51:33
For thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: “The daughter of Babylon is like a threshing floor When it is time to thresh her; Yet a little while And the time of her harvest will come.”
So the Babylon John saw is clearly the daughter of the original. The original was in the land of Shinar. This is where Daniel and the others were taken away captive.
Daniel 1:2
And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with some of the articles of the house of God, which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the articles into the treasure house of his god.
Zechariah is the last person to mention Shinar and he talks about it right after he discusses the two olive trees and lampstands. This is the Woman (or Harlot) in the Basket.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then the angel who talked with me came out and said to me, “Lift your eyes now, and see what this is that goes forth.”
[SUP]6 [/SUP]So I asked, “What is it?” And he said, “It is a basket that is going forth.”
He also said, “This is their resemblance throughout the earth: [SUP]7 [/SUP]Here is a lead disc lifted up, and this is a woman sitting inside the basket”; [SUP]8 [/SUP]then he said, “This is Wickedness!” And he thrust her down into the basket, and threw the lead cover[SUP][b][/SUP] over its mouth. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Then I raised my eyes and looked, and there were two women, coming with the wind in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork, and they lifted up the basket between earth and heaven.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]So I said to the angel who talked with me, “Where are they carrying the basket?”
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he said to me, “To build a house for it in the land of Shinar; when it is ready, the basket will be set there on its base.”
You know what I believe, that this false religion is Islam. It is by far the largest false religion with roots back to Babylon.
Now let me show you the meaning of the second trumpet. I will show you the passage John gets his figurative language comes from first. This passage shows the destruction of Islam or Mystery Babylon.
Jer 51: [SUP]25 [/SUP]“Behold, I am against you, O destroying mountain, Who destroys all the earth,” says the Lord. “And I will stretch out My hand against you, Roll you down from the rocks, And make you a burnt mountain.
Notice that the religion is called a destroying mountain which destroys the whole earth. Is the earth literally destroyed? No, the false religion is corrupting the unsaved people of the earth. It is a "burnt mountain." Is this literal or figurative?
Now look at Rev 8:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.
This is the same figurative language. This isn't a literal mountain. Instead, this is Islam burning as a great mountain because of it's destructiveness. The "sea" are unsaved people. Islam is thrown into the sea of the unsaved people. In the above you are witnessing the Islamitization of 1/3 of the unsaved. A third of the unsaved will follow Islam.
The math works perfectly. 1/3 of the world is saved. This means .6667 are unsaved. A third of them is 22%.
John uses the term "Babylon" in Revelation a lot. He calls it the "Mother of all Harlots." If you take it literally, Babylon would be the first or biggest prostitute in the world. Is that what John means? No.
Ezekiel 6:9
Then those of you who escape will remember Me among the nations where they are carried captive, because I was crushed by their adulterous heart which has departed from Me, and by their eyes which play the harlot after their idols; they will loathe themselves for the evils which they committed in all their abominations.
Micah 1:7
All her carved images shall be beaten to pieces, And all her pay as a harlot shall be burned with the fire; All her idols I will lay desolate, For she gathered it from the pay of a harlot, And they shall return to the pay of a harlot.”
So we now know a "harlot" is idol worship. Any idol worship is tied to a religion. So, Mystery Babylon is either the oldest, or biggest false religion on the planet. Can you guess which one? So, what about Babylon, why is John calling it Babylon? Because their forefathers are from Babylon.
Psalm 137:8
O daughter of Babylon, who are to be destroyed, Happy the one who repays you as you have served us!
Isaiah 47:1
“Come down and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon; Sit on the ground without a throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans! For you shall no more be called Tender and delicate.
Jeremiah 51:33
For thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: “The daughter of Babylon is like a threshing floor When it is time to thresh her; Yet a little while And the time of her harvest will come.”
So the Babylon John saw is clearly the daughter of the original. The original was in the land of Shinar. This is where Daniel and the others were taken away captive.
Daniel 1:2
And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with some of the articles of the house of God, which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the articles into the treasure house of his god.
Zechariah is the last person to mention Shinar and he talks about it right after he discusses the two olive trees and lampstands. This is the Woman (or Harlot) in the Basket.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then the angel who talked with me came out and said to me, “Lift your eyes now, and see what this is that goes forth.”
[SUP]6 [/SUP]So I asked, “What is it?” And he said, “It is a basket that is going forth.”
He also said, “This is their resemblance throughout the earth: [SUP]7 [/SUP]Here is a lead disc lifted up, and this is a woman sitting inside the basket”; [SUP]8 [/SUP]then he said, “This is Wickedness!” And he thrust her down into the basket, and threw the lead cover[SUP][b][/SUP] over its mouth. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Then I raised my eyes and looked, and there were two women, coming with the wind in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork, and they lifted up the basket between earth and heaven.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]So I said to the angel who talked with me, “Where are they carrying the basket?”
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he said to me, “To build a house for it in the land of Shinar; when it is ready, the basket will be set there on its base.”
You know what I believe, that this false religion is Islam. It is by far the largest false religion with roots back to Babylon.
Now let me show you the meaning of the second trumpet. I will show you the passage John gets his figurative language comes from first. This passage shows the destruction of Islam or Mystery Babylon.
Jer 51: [SUP]25 [/SUP]“Behold, I am against you, O destroying mountain, Who destroys all the earth,” says the Lord. “And I will stretch out My hand against you, Roll you down from the rocks, And make you a burnt mountain.
Notice that the religion is called a destroying mountain which destroys the whole earth. Is the earth literally destroyed? No, the false religion is corrupting the unsaved people of the earth. It is a "burnt mountain." Is this literal or figurative?
Now look at Rev 8:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.
This is the same figurative language. This isn't a literal mountain. Instead, this is Islam burning as a great mountain because of it's destructiveness. The "sea" are unsaved people. Islam is thrown into the sea of the unsaved people. In the above you are witnessing the Islamitization of 1/3 of the unsaved. A third of the unsaved will follow Islam.
The math works perfectly. 1/3 of the world is saved. This means .6667 are unsaved. A third of them is 22%.
Still waiting for any pre-tribber to answer this.
“Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city..."
If the 70th week is the Great Tribulation and the Great Tribulation is global in its scale, why does the angel, Gabriel tell Daniel that the 70 weeks are for his people and Jerusalem?
Common, one of you pre-tribbers must have a theory on this. Love to hear it!!!
“Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city..."
If the 70th week is the Great Tribulation and the Great Tribulation is global in its scale, why does the angel, Gabriel tell Daniel that the 70 weeks are for his people and Jerusalem?
Common, one of you pre-tribbers must have a theory on this. Love to hear it!!!