Alcohol Tobacco and Drugs

[Desdichado]

Also, my comparison between food and alcohol was not meant to somehow downplay the impact of alcohol. If anything it was a dual criticism on how church goers view the nature and purpose of discipline and those who downplay the need to eat responsibly.

Food is more powerful than we give it credit for. That is quite easy to do when it is in such abundance around us (speaking as an American).

That said, I'm thankful for the abundance. It sure beats the opposite.

 

[Ukorin]

In a country of obesity, moderation is a sermon we need more of.

I am a moderationist, but I would never drink in front of my parents, because they are prohibitionists,
and I would cause them to stumble into judging me in doing so.
I also do not drink around my abstentionist friends, for the same reason,
and also because some of them abstain due to past trouble with alcohol, and I wouldn't want to tempt them to return to that trouble.

With all good things, there must be balance. Everyone knows the difference between lighthearted and sloppy,
some just can't find the line between them until they've crossed it. To them, the line must be one or none.

A drink can raise your spirits,
too many can also crush them.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Ahhhh, the proverbial "balance"

I remember reading sometime back, the words: MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN". The word "TEKEL" may fit here perfectly... "Thou are weighed in the balance and found wanting."

Many times, we tend to think of what is and is not allowed on our own terms, placing a dividing line down that we refuse to cross, but at the same time allowing ourselves to get as close to that dividing line as we possibly can without going over to the side that we deem to be "wrong."

But suppose, just suppose, that God has stricter guidelines for where that line is to be placed? After all, God's Word says if we look after a woman to lust after in our hearts we have already committed adultery. He also said that if we hate our brother, we are murderers. Is it not possible that God holds the same high standards concerning alcoholic beverage?

You may not be crossing the line that you have laid out, but you may be crossing the line that God has established.

In 1 Thessalonians 5, we read:

1 Thessalonians 5:4 (KJV) But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1 Thessalonians 5:5 (KJV) Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1 Thessalonians 5:6 (KJV) Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1 Thessalonians 5:7 (KJV) For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1 Thessalonians 5:8 (KJV) But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 (KJV) For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1 Thessalonians 5:10 (KJV) Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Notice the two contrasts mentioned in those verses

DAY as opposed to NIGHT
DRUNKEN as opposed to SOBER


The word "SOBER" means "abstaining from alcohol; not intoxicated; of a clear mind"

EXACT OPPOSITES! God wants us to walk as far from the dividing line as we possibly can. he wants us to be watchful and alert. The best way to make sure you are not crossing God's already established line is to not touch alcohol at all.

God doesn't favor compromise.

Revelation 3:15 (KJV) I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Revelation 3:16 (KJV) So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

 

[Ukorin]

I'll keep the freedom I gained in Christ.

You seem to think that wine has no positives or purpose, and that it has no place in a Believer's life.
I will say clearly that I flirt no line when I have a glass, nor has it ever burdened my conscience.

If your conscience is strict, then I will not discuss it further, as the conversation will not be edifying to anyone.

 

[oldernotwiser]

Drugs a big NO NO but Alchohal and tobaco are not as you said mind perverting, I think thats going a bit far. Moderation is key, its not a sin to use tobaco or drink but when it becomes to addictive and begins to affect your life and becomes more important than God then you might need to quit. However its healthier to wean yourself rather quit cold turkey. Just reduce the amount little by little until u dont need it anymore

if you take a little time researching this, you might find that alcohol and tobacco are "drugs." alcohol probably kills more people than heroin and it's more difficult to kick a nicotine habit than to get off crack. having said that i'm going out for a beer now. one of the interesting things about china is that there are only a couple of places in this city where i can get decent beer, but cigarettes are less than a dollar a pack.

 

[homwardbound]

Each and every man has got tom learn and now his own limitations, sometimes that say not at all

For all things are permissible, yet not all things are beneficial.
I am Ex-Alcoholic, Ex- Druggie, Ex-smoker, and all done by God through me. God showing me how none of those things were ever beneficial Prayed for all that have a problem with this and beyond. Knowing Yeweh is the one who teaches us to walk away from unbeneficial actions and reactions

 

[homwardbound]

if you take a little time researching this, you might find that alcohol and tobacco are "drugs." alcohol probably kills more people than heroin and it's more difficult to kick a nicotine habit than to get off crack. having said that i'm going out for a beer now. one of the interesting things about china is that there are only a couple of places in this city where i can get decent beer, but cigarettes are less than a dollar a pack.

Glad to ear you know how to in moderation, knowing your own limitations and do not over indulge. Enoy

 

[homwardbound]

I'll keep the freedom I gained in Christ.

You seem to think that wine has no positives or purpose, and that it has no place in a Believer's life.
I will say clearly that I flirt no line when I have a glass, nor has it ever burdened my conscience.

If your conscience is strict, then I will not discuss it further, as the conversation will not be edifying to anyone.

A little wine for the stomach is good, 1 Tim 4, may be 5

 

[oldernotwiser]

How many Christians are opposed to these body and mind perverting substances.

good question ........ i'm not opposed (but i may be in the minority)

 

[SeaBass]

it is weird that the people, for whatever reason, abstain from alcohol make it seem like the ones that do not are forcing them to have a drink. no one is saying this. you can abstain by choice, or for past addiction. but they should not try to force their choice as a Biblical command.

I do not think anyone is forcing me to drink, I am here to defend the bible's teaching on abstaining (nepho) against the "moderation" crowd.

 

[The_highwayman]

meh I drank moderately last night. It wasn't hard. I know many that can do this and never once have a single negative consequence in their life. Too bad you lack the self-control to do so yourself.

I must be hitting a nerve here, because you resort to attack mode.


The first sign of a person struggling with alcohol is: I can do it moderately, and it will never hurt me, has never hurt me or others and its too bad others don't have the control I do and others have.

These are the lies the devil places in a person's mind, when they are slowly leaving moderation and going into the phase of dependence.

The devil lies to people and says:

"A little Bit wont hurt you"

"It wont hurt you because you are in moderation and: "you are in control of XXXXX", where XXXXX is alcohol, porn, drugs, anger, envy, jealousy, greed, sexual perversion, hate.

The lies continue
"Look around you, others do XXXXX without consequence"

Then the capstone lie
"Anyone who has had disastrous issues with XXXXX, just cannot control it like you"
"because they are just out judge you and are legalist's"

It is quite obvious I hit a nerve with you and it is what you state and how you say it with all that swag that gives you away.

 

[gb9]

porn, lust, greed, sexual perversion, anger, hate, drugs, envy are all clearly defined sins. folks like some off you throw having a drink in there with them. it is a scare and intimidation tactic used by certain churches and denominations.
but those of us who know the Bible know that it is not a sin to have a drink. no abstinence command exits. you just string together verses to manufacture one.

 

[The_highwayman]

porn, lust, greed, sexual perversion, anger, hate, drugs, envy are all clearly defined sins. folks like some off you throw having a drink in there with them. it is a scare and intimidation tactic used by certain churches and denominations.
but those of us who know the Bible know that it is not a sin to have a drink. no abstinence command exits. you just string together verses to manufacture one.

Gal 5.19 says this:
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[SUP][a][/SUP] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, [SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, [SUP]21 [/SUP]envy, murders,[SUP][b][/SUP] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Drunkness is not one simple drink, but I have seen people get drunk off 1 drink...so whats your next excuse?

 

[SeaBass]

porn, lust, greed, sexual perversion, anger, hate, drugs, envy are all clearly defined sins. folks like some off you throw having a drink in there with them. it is a scare and intimidation tactic used by certain churches and denominations.
but those of us who know the Bible know that it is not a sin to have a drink. no abstinence command exits. you just string together verses to manufacture one.

Look up and study the Greek word "nepho".

Our English word "nephalism" comes from that Greek word,

Merriam-Webster:

Full Definition of NEPHALISM

: total abstinence from alcoholic beverages

Origin of NEPHALISM

Middle Greek nēphalismos soberness, from Greek nēphalios sober (from nēphein to be sober, drink no wine) + -ismos -ism; akin to Armenian nautʽi sober

Nephalism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary



1 Pet 5:8 "Be sober (nepho), be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:"

 

[gb9]

o.k just looked. nepho means cloud. wrong again on Biblical command of no drink.

 

[SeaBass]

o.k just looked. nepho means cloud. wrong again on Biblical command of no drink.

I see you need some help:

A quick search turned up the following:

Wine in the Apostolic Church

2. Physical Abstinence​

The Meaning of the Verb Nepho.
The adjective nephalios and the verb nepho are used in the New Testament mostly to denote physical abstinence. The adjective nephalios occurs only three times in the pastoral epistles and is consistently rendered by the RSV as "temperate" (1 Tim 3:2, 11; Titus 2:2). The verb nephooccurs six times and is translated by the RSV five times "be sober" (1 Thess 5:6, 8; 1 Pet 1:13; 4:7; 5:8) and once "be steady" (2 Tim 4:5). Before examining the meaning and usage of these two words in the New Testament, we want to verify how they are defined in Greek lexicons and used in Greek literature.


The basic meaning of nepho, as mentioned earlier, is abstention from intoxication. In his article on this word group in the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, O. Bauernfeind states: "The concept which underlies the verb nepho ‘to be sober’ and the whole word group is formally negative. It is the opposite of intoxication, both 1. in the literal sense of intoxication with wine, and 2. in the figurative sense of states of intoxication attributable to other causes."58 The Jewish philosopher Philo illustrates this definition when he says: "So too soberness [nephein] and drunkenness are opposites."


There is noteworthy unanimity among Greek lexicons on the primary meaning of this verb. Liddell and Scott give as the first meaning of nepho, "to be sober, drink no wine." In his Patristic Greek Lexicon, Lampe renders it, "be temperate, drink no wine."60 The first example given by Lampe is from Origen’s treatise Against Celsus, where the pagan philosopher Celsus accuses a Christian teacher of acting "like a drunken man, who, entering a company of drunkards, should accuse those who are sober [nephontas] of being drunk." To such an accusation Origen responds, saying, "But let him show, say from the writings of Paul, that the apostle of Jesus gave way to drunkenness, and that his words were not those of soberness."



Donnegan defines nepho as "to live abstemiously, to abstain from wine;"62 Greene, "to be sober, not intoxicated;"63 Robinson, "to be sober, temperate, abstinent, especially in respect to wine;"64 Abbott-Smith, "to be sober, abstain from wine."


The Meaning of the Adjective Nephalios. The adjective nephalios is defined by these lexicographers in harmony with their rendering of the verb. For example, Lampe gives as the first meaning of nephalios, "without wine, temperate."66 His first supportive example is from Clement of Alexandria, who says: "I therefore admire those who have adopted an austere [nephalion poton=abstemious drink] life, and who are fond of water, the medicine of temperance, and flee as far as possible from wine, shunning it as they would the danger of fire."


Among other lexicographers not cited above there is Hesychius, who gives as the primary meaning ofnephalios, "not having drunk." In Stephanus’ Thesaurus the nephalios is said to be "he who abstains from wine." In the Greek Dictionary of Byzantius, published in Athens in 1839, nephalios is defined as "one who does not drink wine." Similarly Bauernfeind defines nephaliosas "holding no wine." He explains that originally the word was used "for the offerings without wine" and subsequently for "the sober manner of life of those who make them."


Hellenistic Testimonies. Numerous instances of the use of nepho and nephalios in the sense of abstention from wine occur in classical Greek literature. For our purpose it is of greater significance to look into the usage of Hellenistic writers. In the Greek translation of the Old Testament, known as the Septuagint, the compound verbeknepho and the verbal noun eknepsi are found in Genesis 9:24, 1 Samuel 25:37 and Joel 1:5. In each instance the meaning is to become sober, without the influence of wine.


The testimonies of the two famous Jewish writers, Josephus and Philo, are significant for our investigation, since they were contemporaries of Paul and Peter. In hisAntiquities of the Jews, Josephus writes of the priests: "Those who wear the sacerdotal garments are without spot and eminent for their purity and sobriety [nephalioi], not being permitted to drink wine as long as they wear those garments." Similarly, in his Wars of the Jews, Josephus says of the priests, "They abstained [nephontes] chiefly from wine, out of this fear, lest otherwise they should transgress some rules of their ministration."



Like Josephus, Philo explains in his De Specialibus Legibus that the priest must officiate as nephalios, totally abstinent from wine, because he has to carry out the directions of the law and must be in a position to act as the final earthly court. In his treatise On Drunkenness, Philo, speaking of those who "swill themselves insatiably with wine," says: "For such deliberately and under no compulsion put the cup of strong drink to their lips, and so it is also with full deliberation that these men eliminate soberness [nephalion] from their soul and choose madness in its place."


Implication of Testimonies. The natural and necessary inference from the mass of testimonies cited above is that Peter and Paul must have been familiar with the primary meaning of the verb nepho and its adjective nephalios as abstinence from intoxicating beverages. This being the case, they employed these terms with such a primary meaning in at least some of their admonitions to sobriety. Even if in some instances they used these terms figuratively to refer to mental rather than physical sobriety, in no case would the underlying idea of total abstinence be lost.



Those who interpret the apostolic injunctions to sobriety as referring either to mental sobriety or to a moderate use of wine base their interpretation on the assumption that Scripture condemns not the use but the abuse of wine. For example, in The Vocabulary of the Greek Testament, Moulton and Milligan define nephalios as "sober, temperate; abstaining from wine, either entirely (Josephus Ant. 3, 12, 2) or at least from its immoderate use: 1 Tim 3:2, 11; Titus 2:2."77 But the three texts cited contain no suggestion of abstention from the immoderate use of wine. They simply express Paul’s admonition to bishops, women and older men to be nephalious.



If Josephus, Philo and a host of other writers usednephalios in the primary sense of "abstaining from wine," why should not Paul have used it in the same way? Dean Alford argues that such meaning had become obsolete in the apostles’ day. This can hardly be true, as attested by the above cited testimonies of Josephus and Philo. Moreover, long after the apostolic age, Greek writers use the word in the primary sense of abstinence. For example, the philosopher Porphyry (about 232-303) says "But be sober [nephalion] and drink without wine."



Translators’ Bias. The foregoing considerations lead us to wonder whether nepho and nephalios have been consistently translated in the New Testament with the secondary sense of being "temperate, sober, steady," rather than in the primary sense of being "abstinent," because of the translators’ predilection for drinking. By interpreting these terms figuratively, translators and expositors have been able, as Ernest Gordon puts it, to "save the face of wine while condemning drunkenness."


The bias toward wine can be detected even in some Greek lexicons. Besides Moulton and Milligan cited earlier, mention can be made of Liddell and Scott. They definenepho as "to be sober, drink no wine," and they give a host of supportive references. Then they give the metaphorical meaning as "to be self-controlled, to be sober and wary" and they give 1 Thessalonians 5:6 and 1 Peter 4:7 in addition to a few pagan texts as supportive references. As we shall see below, the two New Testament texts support more the former than the latter meaning.



With regard to the adjective nephalios Liddell and Scott define it as "make a libation without wine . . . unmixed with wine" when referring to offerings, and they give a battery of supportive texts. When referring to persons, they render it as "sober" and give 1 Timothy 3:2, 11, Titus 2:2 and Josephus’ Antiquities of the Jews 3, 12, 2, as supportive texts. The texts of Timothy and Titus, as we shall discuss below, favor the primary meaning of abstinence. Josephus’ statement, as we have already seen, leaves no doubt that to him nephalios meant "not being permitted to drink wine." All of this shows that none of the references given really support the figurative meaning of mental sobriety. It would seem that the passages in Timothy and Titus are first translated "sober" or "temperate" rather than abstinent, and then they are cited as proof of the use of such meaning. Having looked at the meaning of nephoand nephalios in writers outside the Bible,we shall now endeavor to determine their meaning in the epistles of Peter and Paul.

3. Nepho as Physical Abstinence​

1 Thessalonians 5:6-8. Paul’s first usage of nephooccurs in his letter to the Thessalonians. After warning the Thessalonians about the sudden and unexpected manner of Christ’s coming "like a thief in the night" (1Thess 5:2), he admonishes them saying: "So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober [nephomen]. For those who sleep sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. But, since we belong to the day, let us be sober [nephomen], and put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation" (1 Thess 5:6-8).
In this passage Paul twice admonishes the Thessalonians to "be sober" (nephomen). What is the meaning ofnephomen in its context? Is Paul exhorting the Thessalonians to be mentally vigilant or physically abstinent or both? The context suggests that both mental vigilance and physical abstinence are included.


The passage consists of a number of contrasting parallels: light and darkness, day and night, waking and sleeping, to be sober and to be drunk. Since Paul contrasts the sons of the day who are sober with those of the night who are drunk, it is evident that in this context the exhortation to "be sober" means not only to be mentally vigilant but also physically abstinent. In the Scripture mental vigilance is closely connected with physical abstinence from intoxicating beverages. The unfaithful servant who failed to watch for the return of his master began "to eat and drink and get drunk" (Luke 12:45).


Another indication that Paul wishes nephomen to be taken both literally and figuratively is the connection between sobriety and wakefulness: "Let us keep awake and be sober" (v. 6). The first verb, gregoromen, refers to mental watchfulness and the second, nephomen, to physical abstinence. Otherwise it would be a needless repetition (tautology): "Let us keep awake and be awake." It is evident that Paul connects mental watchfulness with physical abstinence, because the two go together. Mental vigilance in the New Testament is often connected with physical abstinence. This will become clearer as we consider the other passages in question.


1 Peter 1:13. In addition to 1 Thessalonians 5:6-8, the verb nepho occurs three times in the first epistle of Peter (1:13; 4:7; 5:8). In all three instances, the word is translated "be sober" in the RSV. The casual reader might think that Peter’s admonition to "be sober" means to be prudent, vigilant or temperate, without reference to alcohol. But a closer examination indicates that, as in 1 Thessalonians, the verb here also refers to both mental vigilance and physical abstinence. Note should be taken of the fact that in all three texts, Peter’s exhortation to "be sober" occurs in the context of readiness for the imminent return of Christ. This implies that Peter, like Paul, grounds his call to a life of abstinence and holiness in the certainty and imminence of Christ’s return.


The first usage of nepho in 1 Peter occurs in 1:13: "Therefore gird up your minds, be sober [nephontes], set your hope fully upon the grace that is coming to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ." Here Peter, like Paul, correlates mental vigilance ("gird up your minds") with physical abstinence ("be sober"). Earlier we have shown that there is noteworthy unanimity in Greek lexicons and literature on the primary meaning of nepho as "be abstinent, drink no wine." This pattern of associating mental sobriety with physical abstinence is consistent in all the three usages of nepho in 1 Peter.
The admonition to "be abstinent" assumes a radical form in 1 Peter 1:13 because it is followed immediately by the adverb "teleios," which means "perfectly" or "completely." Thus, the correct translation is, "be completely or perfectly abstinent." Most translators, presumably because of their bias against abstinence, have chosen to use teleios to modify the following verb elpisate ("set your hope"), thus, rendering it "set your hope fully" (RSV) or "hope to the end" (KJV). But the idiom used elsewhere in the New Testament for "to the end" is not teleios per se, but a compound such as mechri telous or heos telous (Heb 3:6, 14; 1 Cor 1:8; 2 Cor 1:13).



Grammatically the adverb teleios can be used to modify either the preceding verb nephontes or the following verbelpisate, since in the Greek there is no punctuation that separates the adverb from the verb. A similar example is Jesus’ statement, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43). Most translators and expositors have chosen to place the comma before rather than after "today," because of their belief in the survival of the soul apart from the body at the moment of death. Similarly in 1 Peter 1:13, most translators have chosen to put the comma before rather than after teleios, because of their belief that the Bible teaches moderation rather than total abstinence.
It is noteworthy that in the Vulgate, the famous Latin translation which has served as the official Catholic Bible throughout the centuries, Jerome translates teleios as a modifier of nephontes, thus, "sobrii perfecte" ("perfectly sober"). In my view Jerome’s translation reflects accurately the intent of Peter, who repeats his call to sobriety three times in his epistle. Thus, the correct translation should be: "Therefore gird up your minds, being wholly abstinent, set your hope upon the grace that is coming to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ."



1 Peter 4:7. The verb nepho is used for the second time in 1 Peter 4:7: "The end of all things is at hand; therefore keep sane [sophronesate] and sober [nepsate] for your prayers." We noticed earlier, in our study of the termsophron, that here Peter exhorts Christians to keep mentally vigilant and physically abstinent. The meaning ofnepho as abstinence from wine is suggested also by the context, where Peter contrasts the past life-style of "licentiousness, passions, drunkenness, revels, carousing and lawless idolatry" (1 Pet 4:3) with the new life-style of temperance and abstinence.
The passage may be paraphrased as follows: "The end of all things is at hand; therefore be sober in mind and abstemious in life in order that you might be able to maintain a healthy devotional life at this critical time."
1 Peter 5:8. The third usage of nepho occurs in 1 Peter 5:8: "Be sober [nepsate], be watchful [gregoresate]. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking some one to devour." Just as in the previous two instances, here also Peter associates mental vigilance with physical abstinence, because the two are mutually dependent. The language corresponds to 1 Thessalonians 5:6, though Paul mentions first mental vigilance and second physical abstinence. The correlation between the two conditions is self-evident. Intoxicating drinks diminish the power of conscience and reason, thus weakening inhibitions to evil-doing. The ultimate result is that the Devil is better able "to devour," literally, "drink down" (katapino) such persons.

​

 

[gb9]

thanks for posting all that. that took a little doing. thank you.

 

[gb9]

one thing to add: a lot of those words point to the word temperance , which means abstinence OR moderation.

 

[SeaBass]

one thing to add: a lot of those words point to the word temperance , which means abstinence OR moderation.

Nepho

Ne = not
pho = drink
Literally means 'not drink'

 

[Stephen63]

Or you just be smart and never get the behind the wheel of a vehicle after as little as one drink? Personal responsibility and common sense sure go a long way.

I think you missed the point:

What about this....... Person has a couple of beers, or glasses of wine, gets in his car, gets pulled over by a cop, cop smells alcohol, gives a breath test, & writes him up a ticket for DUI. According to the law, he's too impaired to be driving..... in layman's terms, he's legally drunk. The world now has better sense about some things than christians do...... Is something wrong here?

My....point....is.... the law states what being "under the influence" is, & the Bible tells us to obey the laws of the land. If that law says we're too impaired to drive, in the law's eyes we are a certain percentage DRUNK.

This is not an odd circumstance..... Some "christians" go to bars with their "friends". Others go to their favorite restaurant & have a couple of drinks. And it's eeeeeasy to get pulled over.

How would it sound to a cop that goes to your church to hear on his radio that you were ticketed for DUI? Or someone see your name in the paper for it? There goes your witness.......down the drain, & for no good reason. What will you tell God then? What will you tell your church then?

Oh, about that personal responsibility/common sense thing...... I don't see that much outta you sober!