All Aboard! Present Your Post-Tribber Ticket to Hell on Earth!

[Grace777x70]

Hey Kenneth...I agree with just about all that you wrote...people should just stick to their calling for sure.

I only disagree that the Holy Spirit would tell someone that "your ministry to the body of Christ is to rebuke and teach on the warnings from Paul's epistles."... ( perhaps it's in the wording of it that throws some of us off )

we are to teach about Jesus and what He has done....the knowledge of Him will properly apply the warnings and exhortations in Paul's letters to believers.

I understand you believe differently in this area...and that is ok....we are still brothers and there are good things to learn from the Lord that you bring to us.

But I agree wholeheartly with people finding the calling the Lord has for them and to be content and devote ourselves to that area and to be open to hear what others are saying in the body of Christ on every subject.

For example for me....the whole Calvinist and Arminian debate along with the timing of a rapture debates ..I have as much interest in those as I do with wanting to know the ant population in Africa.

I'm hear to grow in the knowledge and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. There is no greater revelation then to know Him...for who He really is and the Father in all His glory and majesty.

I agree with you here that people should stick to only the ministry in which they were called to do, and not get into debates on topic's that is not their calling.

This shows in their attitude in not having a open mind to listen to what the other says, and just shuts the door and ignore's what scriptures are presented to keep with what another man has told them.

If what the other person has taught them does not align with the Word of God then we know they were not meant to teach on that subject either. People want to force a calling that they were not called to do !!!


I wanted to do prophecy studies when I first became a believer and gave my full life to Christ !!!

The Holy Spirit told me that is fine but not what He wanted for me yet, He said I needed to learn the epistles of Paul first because He wanted me to teach and instruct others on the warnings from his epistles.

After 6 years of studying on those epistles and the warnings the Holy Spirit then took me back in prophecy study, and since then has opened my eyes to a number of things that make everything align so perfectly.

I did not see that before when I tried to force the study, but now He makes the Word simple to understand !!!

Just because a teaching has been carried on for many years does not make it truth or right, as the teachings were already being corrupted in the 1st century of the early Church and got even worse in the 4th century !!!

 

[KennethC]

I have never once heard any man of God say they know it all. They wouldn't. But, when I've had a teacher I can never once put a finger on that they've lied to me, neither do I have any reason to believe they would lie or are untrustworthy, especially when they agree with a long line of other men who I can't say ever lied. There is something there, the Holy Spirit is what. The Holy Spirit leads into all truth, not half truth, I believe this, hence believe in a community of the faithful who, in fact, agree, and I would be a fool to believe any different, deny the power of God I've even seen this harmony in, my entire life.

The point Grace777x70 and I were trying to make is just because a person is a minister or teacher, does not mean they were called to teach certain aspects.

The Holy Spirit may have called them to only teach the gospel, if they are teaching prophecy, rapture, and gifts then they are teaching on a subject they were not called to do or not called to do yet.

Therefore they are only passing along what they have been told by another, who may or may not also been called to teach on that subject !!!


We are all called to serve different parts in the ministry !!!

 

[3Scoreand10]

I agree with you. I do not hold to the same views I taught when I gre up and was in my dads church. This is one of the many topics I have spent years studying, and changed my view on alot of things.

So again, Where did you get that information?

From the Word of God.
I was not raised in a Christian home. My dad hated churches and preachers. I only began to attend church when I left home at 17. I was saved two days before my 18th birthday. My first instruction was from my Pastor, who lead me to the Lord. A man I trusted completly. He was a Godly man.
As I grew in the faith and matured and began studying the word for my self, I began to question some of what I had been taught and believed.
I have continued to study for 50 years, and the Word has corrected my understanding several times.
Although I am very sure and settled in my beliefs, I continue to put those beliefs aside from time to time and search the Word again. I encourge every one to do the same.
I make no claim to being a Bible scholar, Just a child of God seeking the truth. Seeking to know more.

 

[KennethC]

Hey Kenneth...I agree with just about all that you wrote...people should just stick to their calling for sure.

I only disagree that the Holy Spirit would tell someone that "your ministry to the body of Christ is to rebuke and teach on the warnings from Paul's epistles."... ( perhaps it's in the wording of it that throws some of us off )

we are to teach about Jesus and what He has done....the knowledge of Him will properly apply the warnings and exhortations in Paul's letters to believers.

I understand you believe differently in this area...and that is ok....we are still brothers and there are good things to learn from the Lord that you bring to us.

But I agree wholeheartly with people finding the calling the Lord has for them and to be content and devote ourselves to that area and to be open to hear what others are saying in the body of Christ on every subject.

For example for me....the whole Calvinist and Arminian debate along with the timing of a rapture debates ..I have as much interest in those as I do with wanting to know the ant population in Africa.

I'm hear to grow in the knowledge and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. There is no greater revelation then to know Him...for who He really is and the Father in all His glory and majesty.

Well we are told by Paul who had the Holy Spirit working through him that we are called to be overseers of the rest of the flock.

Apostle Paul in his epistles, the warnings that he gave was mainly to believers not unbelievers !!!

Paul states multiple times after giving the warnings that if "we" instruct others in those warnings we will be good ministers to the Lord.

This is exactly what the Holy Spirit showed and taught me in, therefore you are disagreeing with the Holy Spirit not me !!!

There is multiple passages in the Word of God that gives warnings and tells us we are to carry that out to others.

You have just proven what we are trying to avoid, just because that is not your calling, you have no right to tell another it's not theirs or to make it out that they are wrong !!!

 

[Grace777x70]

okie dokie.....rebuke and reprove all you want then....if you think that is your ministry...have at it then...give it to them.....

 

[3Scoreand10]

Something we should all agree on if we are honest.
When we disagree with another, even if we are positive we are right, at least one of us is wrong, and often we both are wrong.

 

[KennethC]

From the Word of God.
I was not raised in a Christian home. My dad hated churches and preachers. I only began to attend church when I left home at 17. I was saved two days before my 18th birthday. My first instruction was from my Pastor, who lead me to the Lord. A man I trusted completly. He was a Godly man.
As I grew in the faith and matured and began studying the word for my self, I began to question some of what I had been taught and believed.
I have continued to study for 50 years, and the Word has corrected my understanding several times.
Although I am very sure and settled in my beliefs, I continue to put those beliefs aside from time to time and search the Word again. I encourge every one to do the same.
I make no claim to being a Bible scholar, Just a child of God seeking the truth. Seeking to know more.

Yes which is why we all must realize that we all have different callings:

And if one's calling is not on prophecy teaching, then they should not tell another who's calling is they are a liar or false teacher.

Same as with any other studies, if a person has not done in depth study on a topic they should refrain from calling others liars and false teachers when those others have.

The bible is simple to read and understand through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, it is not all complicated and full of hidden contexts to the believer.

When it becomes complicated, twisted, or made to where only a college education can understand then one has just placed man's understanding before God's revealing Truth !!!

 

[KennethC]

From the Word of God.
I was not raised in a Christian home. My dad hated churches and preachers. I only began to attend church when I left home at 17. I was saved two days before my 18th birthday. My first instruction was from my Pastor, who lead me to the Lord. A man I trusted completly. He was a Godly man.
As I grew in the faith and matured and began studying the word for my self, I began to question some of what I had been taught and believed.
I have continued to study for 50 years, and the Word has corrected my understanding several times.
Although I am very sure and settled in my beliefs, I continue to put those beliefs aside from time to time and search the Word again. I encourge every one to do the same.
I make no claim to being a Bible scholar, Just a child of God seeking the truth. Seeking to know more.

Yes which is why we all must realize that we all have different callings:

And if one's calling is not on prophecy teaching, then they should not tell another who's calling is they are a liar or false teacher.

Same as with any other studies, if a person has not done in depth study on a topic they should refrain from calling others liars and false teachers when those others have.

The bible is simple to read and understand through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, it is not all complicated and full of hidden contexts to the believer.

When it becomes complicated, twisted, or made to where only a college education can understand then one has just placed man's understanding before God's revealing Truth !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

From the Word of God.
I was not raised in a Christian home. My dad hated churches and preachers. I only began to attend church when I left home at 17. I was saved two days before my 18th birthday. My first instruction was from my Pastor, who lead me to the Lord. A man I trusted completly. He was a Godly man.
As I grew in the faith and matured and began studying the word for my self, I began to question some of what I had been taught and believed.
I have continued to study for 50 years, and the Word has corrected my understanding several times.
Although I am very sure and settled in my beliefs, I continue to put those beliefs aside from time to time and search the Word again. I encourge every one to do the same.
I make no claim to being a Bible scholar, Just a child of God seeking the truth. Seeking to know more.

Sounds like we are about the same.

Only difference is I trusted my pastor for too many years, And it was when people started questioning me about certain things, and what they said made some sense I got to study. Thats how I cam to believe the way I do.. We always must be open to change, and never ASSUME we are right, with that I agree with you my friend.

 

[3Scoreand10]

Sounds like we are about the same.

Only difference is I trusted my pastor for too many years, And it was when people started questioning me about certain things, and what they said made some sense I got to study. Thats how I cam to believe the way I do.. We always must be open to change, and never ASSUME we are right, with that I agree with you my friend.

My real regreat is that I cannot go back and correct the things that I taught wrong in my early ministry.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My real regreat is that I cannot go back and correct the things that I taught wrong in my early ministry.

or things things you did while under that belief system.. I wish I could take alot back.. so I feel for ya

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree...but the only thing left is to not condemn ourselves and to trust in the love of the Lord to look after us all...commit the past into the Lord's hands..He loves them and has that all under control!

Acts 20:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

or things things you did while under that belief system.. I wish I could take alot back.. so I feel for ya

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree...but the only thing left is to not condemn ourselves and to trust in the love of the Lord to look after us all...commit the past into the Lord's hands..He loves them and has that all under control!

Acts 20:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

as far as east is from west God says..

I still wish some things were different though.. But can only ove forward. which is why I trust no one, not even any of my pastors. I test everything anyone says now..

 

[Yet]

I should have made that more clear.
I believe that our gathering together with Him and His second coming are the same event at the seventh trump.
With that said, I pray I would be worthy to endure until the end.
Another thing.Why do believe we will escape when Thousands of Belivers are suffering tribulation and death every day.
Are we that much better, more rightious than they are?

I do not believe every Christian that ever lived has been tortured and burned at the stake. Many have died in peace in bed. I'm just saying your argument doesn't finalize any particular scenario.

Not all tribulation means 7 years on the run.

We all have a story to tell of 'tribulation'.

We got saved: Bam!

Car destroyed by vandals, motor cycle stolen all in one week. On foot looking for work.

Me and family sleeping in car. No money, no home.

Pastors snubbing us, one after another. See: which pastor.

Daughter running away from home at 13 , drugs, etc.

Son jumping off of bridge at 40 with noose around his neck. He survived.

Daughter living with one man after another. Grand children in broken homes.

Grand daughter choosing drugs and prison time.

My wife and I beat up by thugs when saving a girls life.

Tithing and living in poverty.

Wife went through cancer.

I went through heart problems, blacking out while driving.

Oh the list goes on and on. Not seeking a boo hoo party. Just saying tribulation comes to all of us.

So I don't believe that it is absolutely inescapable that we be decapitated to boot and our grand babies burned alive.


And please don't judge me about my family being on the run. Sometimes 'your enemies will be they of your own household'.

And the household of God. For good reason of which I've supplied ample reasons.

 

[JesusIsAll]

I do not believe every Christian that ever lived has been tortured and burned at the stake. Many have died in peace in bed. I'm just saying your argument doesn't finalize any particular scenario.

Not all tribulation means 7 years on the run.

We all have a story to tell of 'tribulation'.

We got saved: Bam!

Car destroyed by vandals, motor cycle stolen all in one week. On foot looking for work.

Me and family sleeping in car. No money, no home.

Pastors snubbing us, one after another. See: which pastor.

Daughter running away from home at 13 , drugs, etc.

Son jumping off of bridge at 40 with noose around his neck. He survived.

Daughter living with one man after another. Grand children in broken homes.

Grand daughter choosing drugs and prison time.

My wife and I beat up by thugs when saving a girls life.

Tithing and living in poverty.

Wife went through cancer.

I went through heart problems, blacking out while driving.

Oh the list goes on and on. Not seeking a boo hoo party. Just saying tribulation comes to all of us.

So I don't believe that it is absolutely inescapable that we be decapitated to boot and our grand babies burned alive.


And please don't judge me about my family being on the run. Sometimes 'your enemies will be they of your own household'.

And the household of God. For good reason of which I've supplied ample reasons.

There are those who play with words, because that seven years is commonly called the tribulation period, but the time of Jacob's trouble has nothing to do with the general use of the word tribulation, any more than the wrath of the devil and man, or the corrupt nature of the flesh in a fallen world, has to do with that wrath of the Lord to come. It's a false and silly argument, like "the word rapture isn't in the Bible," as if nobody knows we're referring to the harpazo. Duh! Trinity isn't in the Bible. Bible isn't in the Bible. Throw those out, too?

 

[GaryA]

where do you get this?

Look carefully at the verses in the 'Trumpet 1' - 'Trumpet 6' columns on my Order of Events chart ( and the passages they come from ). Pay close attention to the descriptions. Also take notice of every mention of the 'bottomless pit'.

What can you conclude...?


I have concluded that the Trumpet Events are actually "brought about" by the prophecy / testimony of the Two Witnesses - the span of time of which is a minimum of 3.5 years.


And, these things occur:


~ After the end of the tribulation period...


Matthew 24:

[SUP]29[/SUP] Immediately after the tribulation of those days ...


( i.e. - the Tribulation Period has ended when these things occur )


~ Before the return of Christ...


Matthew 24:

[SUP]30[/SUP] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.




( The web page containing the chart may be found by following the link in my signature. )

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Look carefully at the verses in the 'Trumpet 1' - 'Trumpet 6' columns on my Order of Events chart ( and the passages they come from ). Pay close attention to the descriptions. Also take notice of every mention of the 'bottomless pit'.

What can you conclude...?


I have concluded that the Trumpet Events are actually "brought about" by the prophecy / testimony of the Two Witnesses - the span of time of which is a minimum of 3.5 years.


And, these things occur:


~ After the end of the tribulation period...


Matthew 24:

[SUP]29[/SUP] Immediately after the tribulation of those days ...


( i.e. - the Tribulation Period has ended when these things occur )


~ Before the return of Christ...


Matthew 24:

[SUP]30[/SUP] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.




( The web page containing the chart may be found by following the link in my signature. )

I have never heard this theory before, and I have read almost every theory there is.. I believe like the 144000, the 2 wintesses come in the beigining of tribulation. to help many come to Christ before the great tribulation starts.. They also cause the antichrist to get angry at Israel, and break his treaty with them.

 

[GaryA]

..., denying the blessed hope of the coming of the Lord Jesus for His bride on message boards.

I do not know of any born-again Christian who denies that Jesus is coming again for His bride. Whether pre- mid- post- ( or any other 'timing' that one might propose ) - does not change the belief that Jesus is coming back for His bride. What? Do you think that His 'bride' only consists of those who are still alive on the earth at the time of His appearing? If so, then you do not understand the 'bride' well enough from a biblical perspective.

 

[John146]

Yes, but those post-tribbers believe only those alive at the time of the tribulation will suffer the tribulation. Christ's body will be divided. Those who are dead in Christ will not suffer the tribulation.

I do not know of any born-again Christian who denies that Jesus is coming again for His bride. Whether pre- mid- post- ( or any other 'timing' that one might propose ) - does not change the belief that Jesus is coming back for His bride. What? Do you think that His 'bride' only consists of those who are still alive on the earth at the time of His appearing? If so, then you do not understand the 'bride' well enough from a biblical perspective.

 

[GaryA]

Yes, but those post-tribbers believe only those alive at the time of the tribulation will suffer the tribulation. Christ's body will be divided. Those who are dead in Christ will not suffer the tribulation.

Christians suffered tribulation in the Dark Ages. Most Christians in my lifetime have not [ to the same degree... ]; however, some have...

So...???

What does that have to do with anything?

There is no promise or guarantee that every Christian will suffer the same-exact-amount of persecution / tribulation.

This is not something anyone should base their eschatology on.