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E
"Ready for what...?"
I would like to suggest that having the faith to endure a 'pre-trib' rapture ( having no tribulation experience ) is a lot different than having the faith to endure a tribulation beheading because you refuse to 'worship the image of the beast'...
I would like to suggest that having the faith to endure a 'pre-trib' rapture ( having no tribulation experience ) is a lot different than having the faith to endure a tribulation beheading because you refuse to 'worship the image of the beast'...
If we do nt have faith to endure beheading. Do we really have faith, whether we believe in pre-trib or not? (people are being beheaded all over the middle east today for following Christ)
E
( BAD reasoning - because you believe it MUST be a short period of time )SMH...
If you could only see clearly to understand...:
~ We are in the Great Tribulation now -- since ~70 A.D.
~ ww1 and ww2 are simply part of the Great Tribulation
~ The worst is yet to come - at the end of the Great Tribulation - which is yet future
The prophets said this time will last only a few years. Here you have it lasting over 2000 years now..
I did not say it would llat a short time, GOD DID through his prophets.
What good is that? What good is saying this tribulation is so great non has been like it, If it is all a part of just some major thousands of years event.
That is why I refuse to even consider amil doctrines. They make no sense,, In their view, I could make the bible say whatever I want. That is not the way the bible, or prophesy is.. Prophesy has always been specifiv events..
E
"That is after the end..."
Matthew 24:
[SUP]29[/SUP] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [SUP]30[/SUP] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31[/SUP] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Careful study of this will reveal that it is talking about the Trumpet Events - occurring over a period of time that is at least 3.5 years in length - and coinciding with the Two Witnesses - who actually cause them to happen...
~ The Trumpet Events occur after the Great Tribulation is over.
~ It is not the return of Jesus that ends the Great Tribulation; rather, it is the Two Witnesses.
Matthew 24:
[SUP]29[/SUP] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [SUP]30[/SUP] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31[/SUP] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Careful study of this will reveal that it is talking about the Trumpet Events - occurring over a period of time that is at least 3.5 years in length - and coinciding with the Two Witnesses - who actually cause them to happen...
~ The Trumpet Events occur after the Great Tribulation is over.
~ It is not the return of Jesus that ends the Great Tribulation; rather, it is the Two Witnesses.
J
That is so funny! Instead of Baywatch babes, debris strewn all down the beach. Actually, they'll probably only hear about it on the news in Hollywood. The only Jesus they know is their Mexican gardener, and they don't really know him, either. They may notice the hedges didn't get trimmed. Or maybe down on the boulevard it will be, "Hey, dude! Did you see that? Those guys from Ohio were saying it's, like, disgusting, man, why'd they bother to come here, then, like wow, POOF! Got this cool camera, man."
J
To be frank, a huge problem on message boards is the attitude "what they have been taught." This is a huge error, learning the world of God. You learn from trustworthy scholars, Spirit-filled teachers, also. You learn from Christians down the ages. The Doctor in front of the names of many a fine, Spirit-filled preacher is not a negative. Being a Lone Ranger, who refuses instruction, is a negative, and it's called ignorance. Also, when I see something in the Bible and can line these men of God up around the block I know are faithful, who see the same thing, I'm going to have to go with them, not anonymous message board man. Would those who don't trust the professional, educated theologian go to the supermarket butcher for surgery? Of course not, but they will trust theological butchers. Makes sense to me.
What I find interesting about "scholars of the word" is that they tend to flock together under the same beliefs which is fine and to be expected. But here is the kicker...you go to their seminaries and they all teach Greek and Hebrew. Both sides of any belief system have their "scholars" to back up what they believe and depending on which seminary you go to - you will most likely come out to be just like them. Everything produces after it's own kind.
This applies to every area of scripture...from gifts of the Holy Spirit being for today or not...to prophecy...etc. All backed up by their own Greek and Hebrew experts.!
This applies to every area of scripture...from gifts of the Holy Spirit being for today or not...to prophecy...etc. All backed up by their own Greek and Hebrew experts.!
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J
This is where spiritual discernment comes in, even common sense very often. You check what you're being taught with the word of God, and, at any time, you see you're being bamboozled, this is not a trustworthy teacher. It's always been my practice to only receive ongoing instruction and education from the man of God who never lies, and who teaches strictly the word of God. I don't even want my own opinions to enter into anything, don't want to hear about philosophers, don't want to study every perversion that comes down the pike, just want the truth. I only believe what I believe because it's either obvious in the Bible, or it became obvious, under faithful tutelage. I have few opinions my own, again, this not what it's about. As a result, I understand the Bible as a unit and with clarity I'm perfectly content with, on the other hand see a sea of confusion on message boards, most of which I don't even read from some. What's the point? Join somebody wandering in a theological wilderness?
Amen!
I find that certain teachers are anointed from the Spirit of God to teach on specific areas and when they teach on other areas...they can go off kilter.
I once heard a man that was anointed by the Lord to teach on only 2 subjects. Someone asked him what he believed about the end times ( this was not his calling from the Lord to teach on it ) . He told them what he believed but then he said...BUT I don't know if it's true or not. I like that kind of honesty.
I find that certain teachers are anointed from the Spirit of God to teach on specific areas and when they teach on other areas...they can go off kilter.
I once heard a man that was anointed by the Lord to teach on only 2 subjects. Someone asked him what he believed about the end times ( this was not his calling from the Lord to teach on it ) . He told them what he believed but then he said...BUT I don't know if it's true or not. I like that kind of honesty.
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J
Do what you will, but maybe you could do with somebody who isn't off kilter, at all? Do they have an off kilter Holy Spirit or something? There are many Spirit-filled men of God who do the whole Bible. Somebody who deigns to be a teacher of the faith should be able to do better, or learn better, before they teach.
K
Rather a person is caught up in the rapture (no matter when it happens) is not based on the belief in the timing !!!
Being caught up all depends, and only depends on Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Rather you believe in a pre, mid, or post trib rapture does not matter one bit, as the timing has nothing to do with our Faith in the Lord !!!
Being caught up all depends, and only depends on Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Rather you believe in a pre, mid, or post trib rapture does not matter one bit, as the timing has nothing to do with our Faith in the Lord !!!
I'd be a bit leery of anyone who says they know it all whether Spirit-filled or not. All of us only know in part. There will always be this truth of this scripture below until we go to be with the Lord....thank God for the Holy Spirit inside of us to lead us into all the truth.
I like the Berean-like approach and go to the scriptures to see if what I am being told is true or not. Of curse I could have my mind already made up too and will not let the scriptures get in the way of what I believe....lol..I believe the Lord will help us all in that department.
1 Corinthians 13:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
I like the Berean-like approach and go to the scriptures to see if what I am being told is true or not. Of curse I could have my mind already made up too and will not let the scriptures get in the way of what I believe....lol..I believe the Lord will help us all in that department.
1 Corinthians 13:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
K
I agree with you here that people should stick to only the ministry in which they were called to do, and not get into debates on topic's that is not their calling.
This shows in their attitude in not having a open mind to listen to what the other says, and just shuts the door and ignore's what scriptures are presented to keep with what another man has told them.
If what the other person has taught them does not align with the Word of God then we know they were not meant to teach on that subject either. People want to force a calling that they were not called to do !!!
I wanted to do prophecy studies when I first became a believer and gave my full life to Christ !!!
The Holy Spirit told me that is fine but not what He wanted for me yet, He said I needed to learn the epistles of Paul first because He wanted me to teach and instruct others on the warnings from his epistles.
After 6 years of studying on those epistles and the warnings the Holy Spirit then took me back in prophecy study, and since then has opened my eyes to a number of things that make everything align so perfectly.
I did not see that before when I tried to force the study, but now He makes the Word simple to understand !!!
Just because a teaching has been carried on for many years does not make it truth or right, as the teachings were already being corrupted in the 1st century of the early Church and got even worse in the 4th century !!!
K
Again I agree with you, this is becoming a habit.........................LOL
This is why Paul in 1 Corinthians 12 compared believers as different members of "ONE" body, and how each one serves its specific purpose.
If a person claims they know it all with no errors, they are a liar !!!
There would be no need for the different members of the body if every single believer were given the same gifts and callings.
There would be no calling and command to instruct others !!!
If you are not called to teach, or not called to teach on a certain topic, then you should not be engaging as if you are !!!
J
I have never once heard any man of God say they know it all. They wouldn't. But, when I've had a teacher I can never once put a finger on that they've lied to me, neither do I have any reason to believe they would lie or are untrustworthy, especially when they agree with a long line of other men who I can't say ever lied. There is something there, the Holy Spirit is what. The Holy Spirit leads into all truth, not half truth, I believe this, hence believe in a community of the faithful who, in fact, agree, and I would be a fool to believe any different, deny the power of God I've even seen this harmony in, my entire life.