Amos is handy

[eternally-gratefull]

I answered it, and these are only three people who are to inherit the land? Who are his children now in this day and age?

Genesis 15:5

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

who are they? I already answered this question, and again, if you had responded to my lev 26 passage you would know.

so thanks again for continuing a conversation which has already been answered.

Lev 26:[SUP]44 [/SUP]Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them;for I am the Lord their God.

the fact is, even if we do not know who they are. we can Know God will keep his promise never to cast them away, never to abhor them, and never to destroy them (wipe them off the face of the earth), even if they are dispersed due to sin and unbelief.

Do we trust god to keep his promise or not?

 

[Dustoffmyfeet]

who are they? I already answered this question, and again, if you had responded to my lev 26 passage you would know.

so thanks again for continuing a conversation which has already been answered.

Lev 26:[SUP]44 [/SUP]Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them;for I am the Lord their God.

the fact is, even if we do not know who they are. we can Know God will keep his promise never to cast them away, never to abhor them, and never to destroy them (wipe them off the face of the earth), even if they are dispersed due to sin and unbelief.

Do we trust god to keep his promise or not?

God has now done this to the tune of 7 billion people now that are on the face of the earth, who are dispersed among their enemies. And no He will not cast us away.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God has now done this to the tune of 7 billion people now that are on the face of the earth, who are dispersed among their enemies. And no He will not cast us away.

Oh So your of the lineage of Abraham Issac and Jacob? So why are you hating on Gods promise to your people concerning the land he gave as an inheritance to Abraham, and all the children which come forth from him?

So your living as a slave in whatever country your in because your fathers before youhave sinned against God. And are still sinning against God, I did not know this

You may as well face it man. The promise to Israel concerning the inheritance given them and ONLY them has nothing to do with salvation.

You can't twist Gods word to suit your own fancy. You were never given that promise.

And thanks. You just yet again shown your desire to see God as one who can not keep his promises. his literal truths are spiritual foolery, and mean nothing.

 

[Dustoffmyfeet]

Oh So your of the lineage of Abraham Issac and Jacob? So why are you hating on Gods promise to your people concerning the land he gave as an inheritance to Abraham, and all the children which come forth from him?

You may as well face it man. The promise to Israel concerning the inheritance given them and ONLY them has nothing to do with salvation.

You can't twist Gods word to suit your own fancy. You were never given that promise.

And thanks. You just yet again shown your desire to see God as one who can not keep his promises. his literal truths are spiritual foolery, and mean nothing.

I'm not, I'm only showing you its true and deeper meaning. Those people, who are also of Abraham's seed ACCORDING TO THE FLESH. They are killing other people for land! God said NOT by power or might, BUT BY SPIRIT shall we get the victory! Even Jesus destroys the man of sin by the Spirit of HIS MOUTH.

Our enemies are NOT flesh and blood. Our battles is with powers and principalities and spiritual wickedness in the lofty imaginations of men! Again, my aim is for the WHOLE EARTH, not some strip of land considered by this world to be "holy". My God said that ALL OF THE EARTH IS HIS!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm not, I'm only showing you its true and deeper meaning.

There is no deeper meaning. It means what it says, It was a promise and command given to ALL NATURAL CHILDREN of ABRAHAM, through ISAC AND JACOB (the 12 tribes of Israel) Throughout ALL their generations. which would INCLUDE the generations which are alive today.

Your trying to twist the meaning to somehow say it is no longer valid, or no longer pertains to them, which would be a false premise. Because it was NEVER GIVEN TO ANY GENTILE person, EVEN IF THEY believed in God (Nineveh repented, and came to God, and was saved, yet this promise NEVER was given to them.

Those people, who are also of Abraham's seed ACCORDING TO THE FLESH. They are killing other people for land! God said NOT by power or might, BUT BY SPIRIT shall we get the victory! Even Jesus destroys the man of sin by the Spirit of HIS MOUTH.

Yeah and God is punishing them for it is he not? Are they living in peace or or they living in fear? Ask any one of them, and they will tell you they are in fear. And they are not all back. there are more jews (an most likely people from other tribes) in the US than their is in Israel today. So whats your point? Does that make Gods promise invalid??

Are you perfect? Do you still sin? How would you like it if God said you did not live up to my standard of perfection. so I am going to remove my promise form you, and take your inheritance of eternal life in the future heaven and earth away? That is what you are claiming God did to them. so what is holding him back from doing it to you?

Our enemies are NOT flesh and blood. Our battles is with powers and principalities and spiritual wickedness in the lofty imaginations of men! Again, my aim is for the WHOLE EARTH, not some strip of land considered by this world to be "holy". My God said that ALL OF THE EARTH IS HIS!

True. But that has no bearing on this conversation.

You were never given a land, and told that that land would be yours and your families from generation to generation as an eternal inheritance. The land belongs to abraham, Thus it belongs to his children. They are not in it right now because of their unbelief. their sin, and their rejection of Christ (no, those people over there today are not ALL Israel, they are just a remnant, and a remnant which is not even in Christ for the most part, thus they are still enemies of God.

But as paul said, Even though they are enemies. they are BELOVED ACCORDING TO THE PROMISES. why? THE GIFTS (which the land was a gift) and THE CALLING (God called them out as a special nation and people) ARE IRREVOCABLE.

so tell me, Why are you calling God and Paul and Amos and others liars?

 

[Bookends]

This prophecy apparently has not yet been fulfilled (although we may be seeing it in progress) unless you spiritualize 'Israel' without warrant.
It would seem like a tough nut for the replacement people to crack.

Amos 9:14-15 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

Israel has always been the name for the people of God. Ancient Israel of Jewish descent was only the anti-type to the true Israel. Prophecy should be interpreted as and in prophetic genre, not as narrative nonfiction. IMO, the key to understanding this prophecy is in verse 12:

12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom,
And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,”
Says the Lord who does this thing.

 

[john832]

Israel has always been the name for the people of God. Ancient Israel of Jewish descent was only the anti-type to the true Israel. Prophecy should be interpreted as and in prophetic genre, not as narrative nonfiction. IMO, the key to understanding this prophecy is in verse 12:

12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom,
And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,”
Says the Lord who does this thing.

Don't mind me but Israel is not of Jewish descent, the Jews (Judah) are but one tribe in Israel. In actuality, the Jews are of Israelite descent.

 

[Dustoffmyfeet]

There is no deeper meaning. It means what it says, It was a promise and command given to ALL NATURAL CHILDREN of ABRAHAM, through ISAC AND JACOB (the 12 tribes of Israel) Throughout ALL their generations. which would INCLUDE the generations which are alive today.

Are all 12 tribes over there now? If you take the bible so literal, then why even read it? It's not for you but for people either long since dead or for those killing the Palestinians. You or I have no business reading it.

Your trying to twist the meaning to somehow say it is no longer valid, or no longer pertains to them, which would be a false premise. Because it was NEVER GIVEN TO ANY GENTILE person, EVEN IF THEY believed in God (Nineveh repented, and came to God, and was saved, yet this promise NEVER was given to them.

Again no I'm not, you are saying I am. I am saying simply that they are not what the bible means. They are over there simply to fool you by the people in charge who plays on your beliefs. It is similar to the microchip being planted in someone's hand. A tactic to play on the minds and fear of the people when in truth these have nothing to do with the true promises of God.

Yeah and God is punishing them for it is he not? Are they living in peace or or they living in fear? Ask any one of them, and they will tell you they are in fear. And they are not all back. there are more jews (an most likely people from other tribes) in the US than their is in Israel today. So whats your point? Does that make Gods promise invalid??

Is the whole family in heaven and earth named after God? If so then who are Israel according to God?

Are you perfect? Do you still sin? How would you like it if God said you did not live up to my standard of perfection. so I am going to remove my promise form you, and take your inheritance of eternal life in the future heaven and earth away? That is what you are claiming God did to them. so what is holding him back from doing it to you?

No, I no longer sin. God said to be ye perfect as He is perfect. Thus if I claim to have Christ living within me, is He then the minister of sin? How could He believing that He died once to sin, never to die again. The problem then is the world's definition of what perfect is. To God, to love your neighbor as yourself is to be perfect, as you have fulfilled all of the law.

True. But that has no bearing on this conversation.

How can you say that our enemy is not flesh and blood and yet condone for whatever reason two races of people killing one another for land? That's not right.

You were never given a land, and told that that land would be yours and your families from generation to generation as an eternal inheritance. The land belongs to abraham, Thus it belongs to his children. They are not in it right now because of their unbelief. their sin, and their rejection of Christ (no, those people over there today are not ALL Israel, they are just a remnant, and a remnant which is not even in Christ for the most part, thus they are still enemies of God.

But as paul said, Even though they are enemies. they are BELOVED ACCORDING TO THE PROMISES. why? THE GIFTS (which the land was a gift) and THE CALLING (God called them out as a special nation and people) ARE IRREVOCABLE.

so tell me, Why are you calling God and Paul and Amos and others liars?

Again I am a descendant of Abraham, or do I need to post more verses on what that means? And they as all are, are beloved of God according to the promises. And yet again, I do not call them liars, only explain a deeper meaning to the words. If the words in this book does not apply to me, then once more, why even bother to read it knowing that I am not included?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Don't mind me but Israel is not of Jewish descent, the Jews (Judah) are but one tribe in Israel. In actuality, the Jews are of Israelite descent.

I think people forget the reason God called out the nation of Israel. They were the "church of God" in the OT.

God did not replace them with the church of the NT, He took the responsability of them representing God in their land away, and gave it to the gentiles. Of course, as Paul said, The gentiles will too one day fall away, and then Israelsa blindness will be removed, And he will again (because of her repentance) return the function of the churhc of God to her in her land, the way he origionally intended it when he made the promise to abraham in the first place. To be Gods representative on earth, so that the whole world (gentiles) will know that the God of Israel is God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Israel has always been the name for the people of God. Ancient Israel of Jewish descent was only the anti-type to the true Israel. Prophecy should be interpreted as and in prophetic genre, not as narrative nonfiction. IMO, the key to understanding this prophecy is in verse 12:

12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom,
And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,”
Says the Lord who does this thing.

Actually Ancient Israel was called the church of God, to be his representative on earth. To prove to the world that God is the one and only God.

There rejection of him caused God to take it away (as prophesied) and give it to the gentiles..

Israel was not supposed to keep the oracles of God to herself. she was supposed to give it to the gentiles so they could come to him (some, Like Daniel and others, did. But most always kept it to themselves) that was their sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Are all 12 tribes over there now? If you take the bible so literal, then why even read it? It's not for you but for people either long since dead or for those killing the Palestinians. You or I have no business reading it.

wow. You are a fighter are you not?

Did God promise never to destroy them, yes or no??

My salvation is not dependant on me believing this nation is alive or dead. It is dependant on God keeping his promises. namely based on the death of Christ.

But God uses prophesy to prove to the world he is the one true God, and all other Gods are not real.

You make a mockery of this, by saying we can take the prophesy of God and make it anything we want to. he does not have to fulfill it literally.

well face it, If this is true. Then your God is no different than nostrodomas or any other false prophet. They can spiritualise their prophesies and make them come true also!

Again no I'm not, you are saying I am.

No. I am not saying you are. God is saying you are. He did not make that promise or covenant with you. He made it to them. And your claiming he broke that covenant with them, although he promised never to do this.

I am saying simply that they are not what the bible means.

If it is not what the bible means, we might as well throw it out, it is useless to us today! Gods promises and his prophesy's are meaningless..

They are over there simply to fool you by the people in charge who plays on your beliefs. It is similar to the microchip being planted in someone's hand. A tactic to play on the minds and fear of the people when in truth these have nothing to do with the true promises of God.

They are fooling me? You have not listened to a word I have said are you? Who are they? Have they been returned by God? Have they repented? have they been given freedom in the land by God? Have they been returned to ALL the things God promised them in the OT?

I have told you over and over the answer is no, yet for some reason YOU REFUSE TO LISTEN TO ME! And then tell me I am deceived??

lol. Your the one decieved my friend, You have been spoonfed what to believe, And even though you are told over and over we do not believe certain things, You continue to use the things you are taught about us (which are in error) as an excuse to say we are deceived.

yet you want us to see God and his word in your way??

Is the whole family in heaven and earth named after God? If so then who are Israel according to God?

there are two is Israels concerning God.

the first is romans 9, and are called whether jew or gentile, free or slave, male or female.

It is those who are given a heavenly inheritance based on the child of abraham, and the promise of, "in you shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.


There is physical Israel. CHildren of Abraham isaac and Jacob. Called out by God to be a special NATION. and given an inheritance of property here on earth (non salvic promise, they were given the land whether they would go to heaven or not) They are the ones spoken of in Romans 11. The natural branches. who were cut off. but who God has spared a remnant. They are blinded in part. Yet we are told not to be ignorant of the mystery, that one day they ALL will be saved. They are called our enemy concerning th egospel. But beloved concerning the promises of God made to the fathers. Not because of their beliefe and Good works But because of Gods promise made to their fathers.

No, I no longer sin. God said to be ye perfect as He is perfect. Thus if I claim to have Christ living within me, is He then the minister of sin? How could He believing that He died once to sin, never to die again. The problem then is the world's definition of what perfect is. To God, to love your neighbor as yourself is to be perfect, as you have fulfilled all of the law.

Oh You never sin? You do not understand what sin is then. You must be better than Paul was. For he could never be perfect. should I bow down to you?

How can you say that our enemy is not flesh and blood and yet condone for whatever reason two races of people killing one another for land? That's not right.

Why do you continue to bring this up? Can you honestly read what I have said from the time I entered this thread, where I have condemned BOTH PEOPLE in that fight, and say I condone it?

Dude, if your not going to listen to me. and keep making false accusations against me. (which is a sin by the way, so so much for your being perfect) or are you going to at least open your mind and listen to what I say, to prove to the whole chat room that you are open minded, and not closed??

Again I am a descendant of Abraham, or do I need to post more verses on what that means? And they as all are, are beloved of God according to the promises. And yet again, I do not call them liars, only explain a deeper meaning to the words. If the words in this book does not apply to me, then once more, why even bother to read it knowing that I am not included?

You are a descendant of abraham, in the aspect "ALL NATIONS of the world will be blessed"

You are not a descendant of abraham, in the way "I give this land to you and your descendants after you as an eternal possession) That is a completely different covenant altogether. Which has never pertained to you. and WIll never pertain to you.

Until you realise there was a spiritual/salvic side to that covenant, and a physical/fleshly side to that covenant, you will never comprehend those prophesies or promises.

 

[Historicist]

Don't mind me but Israel is not of Jewish descent, the Jews (Judah) are but one tribe in Israel. In actuality, the Jews are of Israelite descent.

This is partially correct only, BC and first century Jews were Israelites (i.e., of the Judah portion of Israel), but most contemporary Jews, being of Askenazi-Khazar ancestry, are not. Google on The Invention of the Jewish People by Israeli professor Shlomo Sand, and The Thirteenth Tribe by Jewish historian Arthur Koestler, and Johns Hopkins Jewish DNA Study for suppressed truth on this.

 

[john832]

This is partially correct only, BC and first century Jews were Israelites (i.e., of the Judah portion of Israel), but most contemporary Jews, being of Askenazi-Khazar ancestry, are not. Google on The Invention of the Jewish People by Israeli professor Shlomo Sand, and The Thirteenth Tribe by Jewish historian Arthur Koestler, and Johns Hopkins Jewish DNA Study for suppressed truth on this.

Most Israelites are not Jews at all. To say that all Israelites are Jews is to say that all Americans are Texans. it is simply wrong.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Most Israelites are not Jews at all. To say that all Israelites are Jews is to say that all Americans are Texans. it is simply wrong.

true, if anything a jew is only 2/12'ths of the nation of Israel.

 

[Historicist]

true, if anything a jew is only 2/12'ths of the nation of Israel.

eternally-grateful, you're catching on. But now you must identify the 10/12'ths (i.e., the non-Jews of the ten tribes), those who did not return from captivity.

 

[Historicist]

Most Israelites are not Jews at all. To say that all Israelites are Jews is to say that all Americans are Texans. it is simply wrong.

That's right john832, all Israelites were not Jews anymore than all Americans are Texans.

 

[john832]

eternally-grateful, you're catching on. But now you must identify the 10/12'ths (i.e., the non-Jews of the ten tribes), those who did not return from captivity.

Migrated in to Europe for the most part. Some even crossed the pond.

 

[Historicist]

Actually Ancient Israel was called the church of God, to be his representative on earth. To prove to the world that God is the one and only God.

There rejection of him caused God to take it away (as prophesied) and give it to the gentiles..

Israel was not supposed to keep the oracles of God to herself. she was supposed to give it to the gentiles so they could come to him (some, Like Daniel and others, did. But most always kept it to themselves) that was their sin.

You say, "their rejection of him caused God to take it away (as promised) and give it to the gentiles..." Is this interpretation not the Replacement type theology you condemn?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

eternally-grateful, you're catching on. But now you must identify the 10/12'ths (i.e., the non-Jews of the ten tribes), those who did not return from captivity.

no I do not. Because not all jews are in the land yet. so we can not even identify them to be honest.

all I have to do is believe God when he says, and I post again.

Lev 26:[SUP]44 [/SUP]Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them;for I am the Lord their God.

That God will keep his promise, and not destroy them off the face of the earth as a nation of people. even when they are not a nation as we think of a nation.

 

[Historicist]

Migrated in to Europe for the most part. Some even crossed the pond.

Would this perhaps, explain why Christianity is Eurocentric, why Jesus and the New Covenant are woven into the culture of Western and related Europeans only?