Apostle Paul On Tongues In 1 Corinthians

[notuptome]

yet your constant vain repetition of the Holy Spirit no longer has the same unction He had, is a well known fact around these forums

in fact, I wonder what you would contribute if everyone who actually practiced what God promises left the forum

So now you take an inaccurate description of vain repetitions and misuse it to devalue my statements.

You then follow it up with a false claim made without support of scripture.

My contributions will be the same contributions of scripture to illustrate the error of those who claim the falsehoods of mystical new age religions as truth.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[LaurenTM]

So now you take an inaccurate description of vain repetitions and misuse it to devalue my statements.

You then follow it up with a false claim made without support of scripture.

My contributions will be the same contributions of scripture to illustrate the error of those who claim the falsehoods of mystical new age religions as truth.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

For the cause of Christ
Roger

you are a cessationist and your viewpoints are well known in this forum

you have gone so far as to state that a person speaking in tongues does so by the power of a demon

so, don't hide behind scripture because some of us know what you really think

 

[notuptome]

you are a cessationist and your viewpoints are well known in this forum

you have gone so far as to state that a person speaking in tongues does so by the power of a demon

so, don't hide behind scripture because some of us know what you really think

I am not a cessationist. as I believe the bible and it says that only three sign gifts have ceased not all the gifts.

One does not hide behind the scriptures. God sends forth His word and it never returns to Him void but always accomplishes that to which He has purposed it. Isaiah 55:11

You simply must face the reality that men are able to speak in unknowable tongues by the power of their own will. You must face the reality that the bible never teaches prayer tongues. Every example of prayer in the bible is in human language. Jesus taught the disciples to pray not in tongues but from the heart as unto a knowable, approachable and receptive Father in heaven.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[LaurenTM]

I am not a cessationist. as I believe the bible and it says that only three sign gifts have ceased not all the gifts.

One does not hide behind the scriptures. God sends forth His word and it never returns to Him void but always accomplishes that to which He has purposed it. Isaiah 55:11

You simply must face the reality that men are able to speak in unknowable tongues by the power of their own will. You must face the reality that the bible never teaches prayer tongues. Every example of prayer in the bible is in human language. Jesus taught the disciples to pray not in tongues but from the heart as unto a knowable, approachable and receptive Father in heaven.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

well, you choose human reasoning and I choose to follow an invisible God whose Spirit still operates through those who seek more of Him

your reality is your reality Roger..certainly not the reality of scripture

and you are a cessationist by stating what you do. you cannot take parts of the Bible, cut them out and state you believe...you believe what you want to believe and what you have been taught to believe

 

[notuptome]

well, you choose human reasoning and I choose to follow an invisible God whose Spirit still operates through those who seek more of Him

your reality is your reality Roger..certainly not the reality of scripture

and you are a cessationist by stating what you do. you cannot take parts of the Bible, cut them out and state you believe...you believe what you want to believe and what you have been taught to believe

When confronted by the truth you choose to turn away. You can label me in any fashion that lets you get to sleep at night.

I have provided scripture after scripture and all you can do is ignore it and say I rely on human reasoning.

Acts 6:10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.
11 Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God.
12 And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council,
13 And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:
14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.
15 And all that sat in the council, looking stedfastly on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel.
1 ¶ Then said the high priest, Are these things so?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Right. And he says in 1 Cor 14:16 that when speaking in tongues, thou shalt bless with the spirit and speaking in tongues is giving thanks well.

You are reading into the scripture and not reading out of the scripture. Paul is not inferring that he is blessing and giving thanks in tongues but in the Holy Spirit.

Paul begins his line of reasoning concerning praying in the spirit in 1 Cor 14:14:

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

When a believer prays in tongues, his/her spirit prays.


Then Paul follows in vs 15:

1 Corinthians 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

Praying with the spirit is praying in tongues.


Now read 1 Cor 14:16 in the context within which it sits:

1 Corinthians 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks


You can rip 1 Cor 14:16 out of its context and make it say Paul was "not inferring that he is blessing and giving thanks in tongues" but that is not the meaning of the verse as it stands within the context.

Poor workmanship on your part there.

He can and did speak in known languages to those to whom he ministered the word of God.

Yes, he sure did. And other times Paul spoke in tongues according to 1 Cor 14:15 and 1 Cor 14:18.

You are like the water baptism crowd that every place they see baptism they see water. Every place you see Spirit you see tongues. No wonder you are confused on this subject.

You are incorrect in your assertion. I read Scripture in context. I do not rip verses out of context, hold them up, and then claim something God never intended.

We have the written word of God for this express reason that we may determine what is of God and what is counterfeit.

Yes, we sure do. But according to you, all speaking in tongues are counterfeit. So you negate the "written word of God" and hold to false doctrine.

Why do you make such outlandish statements? How do you know "doctrine that is biblically based is not a priority" with believers who speak in tongues?

You throw out blanket statements without considering the fact that the manifestation of tongues is still energized by God in our day and time.

Get over your doubt/fear of the manifestation, start letting God be God, and let Him decide who, what, where, when, how.

If biblical doctrine were a priority you would demonstrate from the bible why tongues are for today and not argue against what the scripture teaches.

I have demonstrated "from the bible why tongues are for today". You reject all Scriptural proof and then throw out your confounded opinions that just because a believer speaks in tongues, he/she is not concerned with "doctrine that is biblically based" as that is not a "priority with them".

You are unable to refute the central point, so you engage in disparaging and derogatory remarks concerning members of the body of Christ in order to cast aspersions upon them.

I am letting God Who is God be God not creating a convenient god to manipulate into something less than Almighty God.

You do not allow God to be God when it comes to the manifestation of Holy Spirit. In fact, when God energizes the believer and the believer speaks in tongues, you deny the believer is speaking in tongues because that gift "ended".

According to you, three gifts ended. And of course, you won't state specifically which gifts ...

 

[garee]

you are a cessationist and your viewpoints are well known in this forum

you have gone so far as to state that a person speaking in tongues does so by the power of a demon

so, don't hide behind scripture because some of us know what you really think

Its scripture that reveals the unseen mysteries of God . Tongues is a revelation or an interpretation of God who is not served by human hands. He gives the hearer his understanding in their own language as well as the word that brings it .Peter did not inspire his own self as if he was in the place of the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit and again had nothing to do with interpreting it as a revelation to others.

God is no longer bringing any new revelations in any manner to include a tongue .What we had in part up until the closing and sealing with the book/chapter of Revelation we now have the whole or perfect will of God with no new revelations on the horizon.

Today if any man say I have a tongue as prophecy we are to believe not. For we walk by faith and not after our experiences of things we perform and call that evidence a person has the Holy Spirit. So if you do hear a tongue where else could it of been loosed from unless God sends a strong delusion for a person to believe a lie.

Tongues is a spiritual gift not observable by the eye as if there was such a thing as a sign gift. Signs are for those who do not believe prophecy .Prophecy the one source of Christian faith (unseen) for those who do believe God who reveals them from heaven

2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

 

[UnderGrace]

reneweddaybyday,

Do you know what unknown tongue means in the line? Do you know why Paul had to write these words to a troubled church?

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

?

Paul begins his line of reasoning concerning praying in the spirit in 1 Cor 14:14:

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

When a believer prays in tongues, his/her spirit prays.


Then Paul follows in vs 15:

1 Corinthians 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

Praying with the spirit is praying in tongues.


Now read 1 Cor 14:16 in the context within which it sits:

1 Corinthians 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks


You can rip 1 Cor 14:16 out of its context and make it say Paul was "not inferring that he is blessing and giving thanks in tongues" but that is not the meaning of the verse as it stands within the context.

Poor workmanship on your part there.




Yes, he sure did. And other times Paul spoke in tongues according to 1 Cor 14:15 and 1 Cor 14:18.




You are incorrect in your assertion. I read Scripture in context. I do not rip verses out of context, hold them up, and then claim something God never intended.




Yes, we sure do. But according to you, all speaking in tongues are counterfeit. So you negate the "written word of God" and hold to false doctrine.




I have demonstrated "from the bible why tongues are for today". You reject all Scriptural proof and then throw out your confounded opinions that just because a believer speaks in tongues, he/she is not concerned with "doctrine that is biblically based" as that is not a "priority with them".

You are unable to refute the central point, so you engage in disparaging and derogatory remarks concerning members of the body of Christ in order to cast aspersions upon them.




You do not allow God to be God when it comes to the manifestation of Holy Spirit. In fact, when God energizes the believer and the believer speaks in tongues, you deny the believer is speaking in tongues because that gift "ended".

According to you, three gifts ended. And of course, you won't state specifically which gifts ...

 

[garee]

Paul begins his line of reasoning concerning praying in the spirit in 1 Cor 14:14:

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

When a believer prays in tongues, his/her spirit prays.

The statement is "if" I pray in an unknown tongue. Not when I pray as if praying in an unknown language was acceptableness having his approval .Therefore a commandment ...pray in unknown tongue. (no such prompt)..

That portion is not prompting us that when we seek after God by faith we mumble some thoughts not knowing what we asked for. He gives us the desire to know and the authority to make it possible to commune with Him . What good would our desires to please God be if they were unfruitful? It would be like speaking into the air .

Then Paul follows in vs 15:

1 Corinthians 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

Praying with the spirit is praying in tongues.

Now read 1 Cor 14:16 in the context within which it sits:

1 Corinthians 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks


You can rip 1 Cor 14:16 out of its context and make it say Paul was "not inferring that he is blessing and giving thanks in tongues" but that is not the meaning of the verse as it stands within the context.

Poor workmanship on your part there.

The context is clear unless someone rips it out. It informs us as it reads

1 Corinthians 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks.

All they would be hearing is sounds speaking noise into the air

And even things without life giving sound, except they give a distinction in the sounds, “how shall it be known what is piped or of spoken as with tongues when a person is saying amen.? For they will be speaking into the air hoping it is evidence they have the Holy Spirit. .

1For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, "how" shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air Co 14:8

Again....How shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks.?

 

[UnderGrace]

Yes garee, it is all very clear. In this thread it has been shown over and over again that

1) The historical interpretation of scripture has been discarded in favor of the 1901 new and revised understanding of tongues being a language that is not an earthly language but utterances that are not from earth yet "tongue" "glossa" means language/dialects in Greek

2) Speaking in a tongue is a supposed manifestation of the Holy Spirit that is done within churches since 1901, in a language no one understands that requires interpretation yet scripture is clear it is a sign to unbelievers for evangelism and to support Christianity in its infancy stages

3) The Biblical meaning of tongues is translatable language this is what Paul is talking about.

4) Paul is also clear there must be an interpreter, so how does this work for a private prayer language, scripture cannot contradict itself.

5) There is a denial of the historical context which goes against correct exegesis of scripture. Corinth was a struggling church with many problems, the most carnal church even after Paul has spent two years with them. Paul is giving reproof and correction and that is how it has to be read. Those in Corinth wrote Paul for help because the church meetings were out of control. Corinth was prosperous city with many foreigners and with many languages and dialects.

6) Corinthian members were showing off their ability to speak in various foreign languages. “For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.” (I Corinthians 14:2)

Someone that is showing off his knowledge of a foreign language that no one else around knows “edifieth himself” alone (1 Corinthians 14:4), because he speaketh not unto men, but unto God” ( 1 Corinthians 14:2). Of course God understands all languages! This point has been made over and over again!!

The whole jist of I Corinthians 14 is that all speech in the church should be clear and understandable. (I Corinthians 14:6, 9, 16, 19, 27, 28) When anyone speaks in a language that others around him don’t understand his speech is a secret or mystery to them.

7) Neuro-Linguistics supports traditional understanding of scripture not the 1901 reinvented model. Science is not truth but there is truth in science and we should at the very least pay attention to scientists, many who do their duty with integrity and honesty, especially when a manifestation is supposedly of God. Otherwise we have to accept gold tin foil falling from the rafters as a manifestation of the God.

We are to be childlike in faith not in discernment.

The statement is "if" I pray in an unknown tongue. Not when I pray as if praying in an unknown language was acceptableness having his approval .Therefore a commandment ...pray in unknown tongue. (no such prompt)..

That portion is not prompting us that when we seek after God by faith we mumble some thoughts not knowing what we asked for. He gives us the desire to know and the authority to make it possible to commune with Him . What good would our desires to please God be if they were unfruitful? It would be like speaking into the air .




The context is clear unless someone rips it out. It informs us as it reads

1 Corinthians 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks.

All they would be hearing is sounds speaking noise into the air

And even things without life giving sound, except they give a distinction in the sounds, “how shall it be known what is piped or of spoken as with tongues when a person is saying amen.? For they will be speaking into the air hoping it is evidence they have the Holy Spirit. .

1For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, "how" shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air Co 14:8

Again....How shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks.?

 

[kohelet]

I am not a cessationist. as I believe the bible and it says that only three sign gifts have ceased not all the gifts.

Hi Rodge,

This is something I don't understand. If the perfect will replace the partial, wouldn't all the gifts cease at the same time? There wouldn't be more than one perfect, I'm assuming. This really is something I have difficulty getting my head around.

 

[BenFTW]

Yes garee, it is all very clear. In this thread it has been shown over and over again that

1) The historical interpretation of scripture has been discarded in favor of the 1901 new and revised understanding of tongues being a language that is not an earthly language but utterances that are not from earth yet "tongue" "glossa" means language/dialects in Greek

2) Speaking in a tongue is a supposed manifestation of the Holy Spirit that is done within churches since 1901, in a language no one understands that requires interpretation yet scripture is clear it is a sign to unbelievers for evangelism and to support Christianity in its infancy stages

3) The Biblical meaning of tongues is translatable language this is what Paul is talking about.

4) Paul is also clear there must be an interpreter, so how does this work for a private prayer language, scripture cannot contradict itself.

5) There is a denial of the historical context which goes against correct exegesis of scripture. Corinth was a struggling church with many problems, the most carnal church even after Paul has spent two years with them. Paul is giving reproof and correction and that is how it has to be read. Those in Corinth wrote Paul for help because the church meetings were out of control. Corinth was prosperous city with many foreigners and with many languages and dialects.

6) Corinthian members were showing off their ability to speak in various foreign languages. “For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.” (I Corinthians 14:2)

Someone that is showing off his knowledge of a foreign language that no one else around knows “edifieth himself” alone (1 Corinthians 14:4), because he speaketh not unto men, but unto God” ( 1 Corinthians 14:2). Of course God understands all languages! This point has been made over and over again!!

The whole jist of I Corinthians 14 is that all speech in the church should be clear and understandable. (I Corinthians 14:6, 9, 16, 19, 27, 28) When anyone speaks in a language that others around him don’t understand his speech is a secret or mystery to them.

7) Neuro-Linguistics supports traditional understanding of scripture not the 1901 reinvented model. Science is not truth but there is truth in science and we should at the very least pay attention to scientists, many who do their duty with integrity and honesty, especially when a manifestation is supposedly of God. Otherwise we have to accept gold tin foil falling from the rafters as a manifestation of the God.

We are to be childlike in faith not in discernment.

Talk about a stretch and a half. Taking the super out of supernatural.

 

[kohelet]

Hi everyone,

Just a note if anyone is tired of getting beaten black and blue by fellow believers on these forums. The GardenWeb forums are places where people are genuinely obliging, kind and helpful.



I'm serious, actually. It's a relief to hang out over at gardenweb.com, let me tell you. Why, it's like oil running down Aaron's beard, lo, to the hem of his garment. Not that people have been clobbering me here - they haven't - but I've felt badly for others who have been on the receiving end of rough treatment by the redeemed.

 

[Cee]

The people who say gifts aren't for today and tongues are for "interpreting the gospel" never quote 1 Co 14 fully. That's a telltale sign of someone who simply wants to be right. Because if we can't address Scriptures that detract from our position honestly what's the point of even posting on here? Let me know when someone actually wants to address ALL the Scriptures on tongues and spiritual gifts instead of simply saying "it's already been proven" when it hasn't. And just asserting they are "right" when they aren't.

To whoever does speak in tongues or does desire spiritual gifts like Scripture invites you:

Keep at it! Don't let people who don't have a clue about the reality of the Spirit gifts try to tell you what Scripture says. They mean well, but in honesty they just don't get it. And worse, they don't want to get it. But if you are reading these posts still I just want you to know the Spirit of God is really, real, and He does incredible things. Get to know Him. Listen to Him for yourself and just know Scripture doesn't at all support what most people think it does. Get your teaching from Him and from those who major on love and knowing His Spirit directly. You WILL always know them by their fruit. Not by their theology.

At the end of your life, it's between you and Him anyways, and I guarantee you're going to want to know Him when you meet Him not just know about Him from what other people have told you. One day you will be face to face with Him. And it will be glorious, but until that time, let Him guide you even if other people say you're wrong, He's always right. We probably all got it wrong in some way, but it's not about right or wrong. It's about Him. And Him in you. Truth is a person. Not a religious tradition. Not a collection of principles, but an actual person.

Get to know Him. And don't let anyone stand in your way.

Bless you.

C.

 

[Cee]

Thank you for this post.

And finally, Paul illustrates exactly what he means, when he says people who speak in tongues will scare unbelievers because they won't be able to understand them. It's crazy to me that people want to define tongues without including the chapter that is written SPECIFICALLY about it.

And even if you explain in Acts 2 and 4 that the people were praying TO God as the Scripture states it's still ignored. Even though Scripture clearly says that! But thank you for pressing forward and sharing what Scripture truly teaches.

Paul begins his line of reasoning concerning praying in the spirit in 1 Cor 14:14:

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

When a believer prays in tongues, his/her spirit prays.


Then Paul follows in vs 15:

1 Corinthians 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

Praying with the spirit is praying in tongues.


Now read 1 Cor 14:16 in the context within which it sits:

1 Corinthians 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks


You can rip 1 Cor 14:16 out of its context and make it say Paul was "not inferring that he is blessing and giving thanks in tongues" but that is not the meaning of the verse as it stands within the context.

Poor workmanship on your part there.




Yes, he sure did. And other times Paul spoke in tongues according to 1 Cor 14:15 and 1 Cor 14:18.




You are incorrect in your assertion. I read Scripture in context. I do not rip verses out of context, hold them up, and then claim something God never intended.




Yes, we sure do. But according to you, all speaking in tongues are counterfeit. So you negate the "written word of God" and hold to false doctrine.




I have demonstrated "from the bible why tongues are for today". You reject all Scriptural proof and then throw out your confounded opinions that just because a believer speaks in tongues, he/she is not concerned with "doctrine that is biblically based" as that is not a "priority with them".

You are unable to refute the central point, so you engage in disparaging and derogatory remarks concerning members of the body of Christ in order to cast aspersions upon them.




You do not allow God to be God when it comes to the manifestation of Holy Spirit. In fact, when God energizes the believer and the believer speaks in tongues, you deny the believer is speaking in tongues because that gift "ended".

According to you, three gifts ended. And of course, you won't state specifically which gifts ...

 

[wattie]

Hi Rodge,

This is something I don't understand. If the perfect will replace the partial, wouldn't all the gifts cease at the same time? There wouldn't be more than one perfect, I'm assuming. This really is something I have difficulty getting my head around.

I am someone who sees in scripture ministry and sign gifts having fulfilled there purpose. But there is still the gifts of faith, hope and love. There are also still pastors, teachers and evangelists. They just wouldn't be operating their ministry with supernatural gifting.

Still put there by God's Will. Still have the office of pastor but not having the supernatural gift.

 

[garee]

Hi Rodge,

This is something I don't understand. If the perfect will replace the partial, wouldn't all the gifts cease at the same time? There wouldn't be more than one perfect, I'm assuming. This really is something I have difficulty getting my head around.

Not all the gifts have ceased .Just the ones that involve new prophecy, the substance of a tongue.

Existing prophecy (the perfect) is still used to prophecy( the gift) by those who bring the gospel, hoping those who hear it, mix it with faith (the unseen) not that seen personal experiences.

The perfect (prophecy) gives us the complete revelation of God with no laws missing by which we could know him more intimately. . It is a faith gift, spiritual, not seen. Tongues, are a warning against those who do not believe the prophecy but look to some work they could do outwardly according to their own flesh to give them the confidence they are children of God . It is something I believe, a believer could get caught up in as being led astray .

Spiritual gifts are gifts not seen and neither are recognized by that which one experiences outwardly.(walking by sight)

That I believe can be viewed in respect to the trial of Christ's faith in Mathew 4 .This is when as the father prepared him for the priestly ministry. Having been baptized by John from the tribe of Levi needed as a an officiator to baptize Jesus from the tribe of Judah so he could be minister. Being obedient, fulfilling the old testament purifying, ceremonial law required when a new priest entered the ministry .The purpose of baptism, for the whole kingdom of priest (the believers).

It like tongues, it is not a personal sign as evidence a person has the Holy Spirit. Again there is no outward sign just an inward change of heart according to a new spirit hopefully and by that spirit we cry out Abba Father in our time of need..

This is when Christ as the son of man which spoke of the temporal flesh experienced seeing all the Kingdom of the world and all their glory without moving one inch in the sand .Something some call out of body experiences but is simply demons bringing in lying signs and wonders.

Christ believed not but said again and again ,as it is written (no outward sign, save the sign of Jonah)

 

[kohelet]

I am someone who sees in scripture ministry and sign gifts having fulfilled there purpose. But there is still the gifts of faith, hope and love. There are also still pastors, teachers and evangelists. They just wouldn't be operating their ministry with supernatural gifting.

Still put there by God's Will. Still have the office of pastor but not having the supernatural gift.

Well yes, Wattie mate. But Paul contrasts the partial with the perfect. When the perfect comes, the partial will disappear. How many perfects are there?

 

[garee]

And finally, Paul illustrates exactly what he means, when he says people who speak in tongues will scare unbelievers because they won't be able to understand them.

I see it more they will not understand them because they cannot understand languages they are not familiar with .

Some are scared into believing they too must experience something they cannot do,( bring new prophecy)seeing God is no longer bringing new prophecy in any manner .We have the whole or perfect sealed up till the end of time .

I would ask why some would want to experience more that he does gives us as His understanding? Is there something missing in the scriptures?

Who is scaring them to provide outward evidence to confirm faith (the unseen)? The accuser of the brethren, the god of this world?

And even if you explain in Acts 2 and 4 that the people were praying TO God as the Scripture states it's still ignored.

There are no examples of praying To God as far as tongues in Acts 2 and 4. God, not seen puts his words on Peter lips as a gift of God called to prophesy, declaring prophecy which is informing us of His will .

Prophecy is not of Peter( if you are not Catholic) as if he was the invisible source of faith , but prophecy to us is as it is written.

 

[RBA238]

Not all the gifts have ceased .Just the ones that involve new prophecy, the substance of a tongue.

Existing prophecy (the perfect) is still used to prophecy( the gift) by those who bring the gospel, hoping those who hear it, mix it with faith (the unseen) not that seen personal experiences.

The perfect (prophecy) gives us the complete revelation of God with no laws missing by which we could know him more intimately. . It is a faith gift, spiritual, not seen. Tongues, are a warning against those who do not believe the prophecy but look to some work they could do outwardly according to their own flesh to give them the confidence they are children of God . It is something I believe, a believer could get caught up in as being led astray .

Spiritual gifts are gifts not seen and neither are recognized by that which one experiences outwardly.(walking by sight)

That I believe can be viewed in respect to the trial of Christ's faith in Mathew 4 .This is when as the father prepared him for the priestly ministry. Having been baptized by John from the tribe of Levi needed as a an officiator to baptize Jesus from the tribe of Judah so he could be minister. Being obedient, fulfilling the old testament purifying, ceremonial law required when a new priest entered the ministry .The purpose of baptism, for the whole kingdom of priest (the believers).

It like tongues, it is not a personal sign as evidence a person has the Holy Spirit. Again there is no outward sign just an inward change of heart according to a new spirit hopefully and by that spirit we cry out Abba Father in our time of need..

This is when Christ as the son of man which spoke of the temporal flesh experienced seeing all the Kingdom of the world and all their glory without moving one inch in the sand .Something some call out of body experiences but is simply demons bringing in lying signs and wonders.

Christ believed not but said again and again ,as it is written (no outward sign, save the sign of Jonah)

Disagree...Read in The Book of Acts beginning at Chapter One, Two; etc. Many of those who received The Holy Spirit Spoke in tongues and recorded. We still have New people coming in, and Speaking in tongues when The Spirit comes upon them. It is not "Rehearsed" either.