Are muslims really worshiping satan?

[Densetzu]

Good gosh almighty, you're recommending a Chick Tract, Baptist? Every last one of those is an atrocity committed against common sense and good judgment. Chick is the same guy that said playing Dungeons and Dragons will lead you into hardcore satanism or some such nonsense.

Show me the scripture reference that God will ask us that before the Judgment seat . Good luck.

From the book of Matthew, Ch. 25:

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44 “Then they also will answer Him,[d] saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph 2:8-9 (KJV)

The Book of James, Ch. 2:

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[f] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[g]And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

The Apostle Paul was not God, and James obviously had a different view on the relationship between faith and works than Paul did. Who are you to judge for others which is more accurate? Is one of the tenants of the Baptist denomination not the priesthood of all believers?

To bring us back on topic--
Muslim's worship a single and transcendent God. Yes, they get some details about him wrong, and yes, they need an understanding that Isa was more than just a prophet. Yes, they need grace. But to jump to the conclusion that they are worshiping Satan is ludicrous and judgmental--after all, as far as King David and his contemporaries were concerned, YHWH did not have a Son either. Does that mean they were worshiping Satan too?

Obviously not.

 

[Baptistrw]

Paul says faith alone saves, James says that faith that says is not alone, but works will follow to prove it. There is no issue between the two views. The God the Israelites worshipped was real. Not imaginery. As for the Matthew thing, you do realize that's a parable right? Knowing the context of a passage before quoting it might be a good idea.

 

[Baptistrw]

tracks......... i agree with the both of you.... no good

Use them and see Unless you have, you're input is utterly worthless. They attract attention via comic format and are highly successful for tract evangelism as other tracts are usually wadded up and thrown away.

 

[above]

Densetzu, you can't argue with people like that. Facts and logic are irrelevant to them, they will believe anything as long as it confirms their view of the world. All we can do is wait and hope that he will re-evaluate (does that word exist in the english language?) what he really knows.

 

[Baptistrw]

Are you serious?

If you think that is a good resource to give to a Muslim friend, you obviously have no concern for their souls, it seems it would have moreso to do with winning the argument. I say that as an ex-muslim.

Muslims need a christian friend who will be there, and get to know them, before directly forcing their views on them. They need someone to show them the love of Christ. It seems, unfortunately, you are not that person.

I may be wrong though, maybe in the future you'll be capable of that task.

O well when you deal with large groups of people, befriending someone isn't always a possibility. If I talk to a Muslim in the store and we go our separate ways how is it possible to do that? In a perfect world what you say would be great. One problem. It doesn't work that way. You make the best of what you have available and leave the rest to God. They may be offended, but that happens. It's better to offend someone is sharing the gospel than to watch them die and go to hell without ever approaching them with the gospel.

 

[Baptistrw]

And I'm officially done with this thread. We're running around in circles. Dios te bendiga amigos.

 

[Densetzu]

The only thing Jack Chick's godawful hateful tracts are good for is kindling for a fireplace.

The God the Israelites worshipped was real. Not imaginery.

Note the change in argument; now Allah is an imaginary God rather than Satan.

Which if you've been paying attention, was my point all alone.

As for the Matthew thing, you do realize that's a parable right? Knowing the context of a passage before quoting it might be a good idea

Yes--a parable about how God goes about Judging people's actions. Hence it's entirely relevant to your question.

 

[Pineapple]

Use them and see Unless you have, you're input is utterly worthless. They attract attention via comic format and are highly successful for tract evangelism as other tracts are usually wadded up and thrown away.

I'm trying my hardest not to offend here, but is there anything in that head of yours? This junk that you posted, if highly offensive to anyone that believes in that muslim faith. By showing them something like that, there is more chance of turning them away from Jesus for good.

Do YOU want to be responsible for stealing someone AWAY from Jesus?
If not, i'd suggest you start using your head and actually relate to the mindset that they are in.

I'm seriously blown away by the sheer ignorance of this. Do you live under a rock?

O well when you deal with large groups of people, befriending someone isn't always a possibility. If I talk to a Muslim in the store and we go our separate ways how is it possible to do that? In a perfect world what you say would be great. One problem. It doesn't work that way. You make the best of what you have available and leave the rest to God. They may be offended, but that happens. It's better to offend someone is sharing the gospel than to watch them die and go to hell without ever approaching them with the gospel.

I agree you have to offend to get the message across, but it's how you offend that makes or breaks the deal. If you just go up to a muslim and straight out offend the person, you could push that person away for their entire life. Why? Well who's going to believe some self-righteous thinks he knows it all, holds the answers to the truth? I certainly wouldn't. Why would I believe someone who can only be bothered to dedicate a few minutes of their life to tell me that I believed in lies and I was going to hell? It's a long process, and the story that unfolded in the tract you shared was just pure fantasy. Any normal muslim just wouldn't do that at all.

If you want to bring a muslim to Christ, why don't you share some of the Gospel? Why don't you just be a friend instead of someone who just wants to score points?

 

[Pineapple]

The only thing Jack Chick's godawful hateful tracts are good for is kindling for a fireplace.

...........ROFL.

 

[Baptistrw]

I'm trying my hardest not to offend here, but is there anything in that head of yours? This junk that you posted, if highly offensive to anyone that believes in that muslim faith. By showing them something like that, there is more chance of turning them away from Jesus for good.

Do YOU want to be responsible for stealing someone AWAY from Jesus?
If not, i'd suggest you start using your head and actually relate to the mindset that they are in.

I'm seriously blown away by the sheer ignorance of this. Do you live under a rock?



I agree you have to offend to get the message across, but it's how you offend that makes or breaks the deal. If you just go up to a muslim and straight out offend the person, you could push that person away for their entire life. Why? Well who's going to believe some self-righteous thinks he knows it all, holds the answers to the truth? I certainly wouldn't. Why would I believe someone who can only be bothered to dedicate a few minutes of their life to tell me that I believed in lies and I was going to hell? It's a long process, and the story that unfolded in the tract you shared was just pure fantasy. Any normal muslim just wouldn't do that at all.

If you want to bring a muslim to Christ, why don't you share some of the Gospel? Why don't you just be a friend instead of someone who just wants to score points?

Ok, I'm responding to you and I'm done. Something may offend someone, and may not offend someone else. It's the same story with people of any religion. There are things as a Christian that offend me that I would guess would not offend you. So to me it's a moot point. I appreciate your input, I will evaluate it and try to apply it where I can in what I do and what you said didn't offend me.

 

[Pineapple]

Ok, I'm responding to you and I'm done. Something may offend someone, and may not offend someone else. It's the same story with people of any religion. There are things as a Christian that offend me that I would guess would not offend you. So to me it's a moot point. I appreciate your input, I will evaluate it and try to apply it where I can in what I do and what you said didn't offend me.

Thanks for the reply and i'm sorry if I got a little heated there. I should have probably been a bit friendlier so I apologise for that. I guess we have different views on the topic we discussed.

Anyway, to the original question. Do I believe the god in islam, is the same as Christ? Most definitely not. If you read through both the quran and The Holy Bible, you'll see that there is no similarity of traits. The fact that there is no Holy Trinity within islam just seals the deal really. So just to clarify, are the two the same? No.

 

[Pineapple]

Since I can't edit the above comment. I meant to say that the god mentioned in the quran is not the same God that we know of in the Old Testament. Ahem. lol.

Thank you.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

I often wonder this.

Muslims believe that they worship the God of Abraham, the God spoken of in the Torah.

We know that as Christians, we worship the God of the bible.

Obviously the islamic faith is wrong, as they do not accept that Jesus is God, and are not saved. But are they worshiping the same God we are? Just in a distorted, incorrect and futile manner? Surely not.

I think that islam is an invention of satan, who has a keen interest in seeing it spread. The question is, is the 'God' that muslims claim to worship really satan?

Those that do not have the Son do not have the Father, Jesus is the "I AM". He is God! There is no way to the Father except by the Son, the Father and the Son are One God!

Muslim Arabs are decended from Ishmael so they are Abraham's seed, just like the "Jews" are Abraham's seed by Esau, but neither count as Abraham's children, only Jacob's decendants which all were saved by God through the blood of Christ and are under covenant, and are called Christians. Now the Book of Hebrews also extends this covenant by faith to the decendants of Eber, called Hebrews, which accounts for the entire Caucasian family - Iberians, Celts, Illyrians, Trojans, Phoenicians, Early Egyptian, Etruscans, etc, etc...the Hebrew family number like the sands. Abraham is the father of many nations. But Muslims and "jews" are not worshipping the same God as Christians, they have their corrupted manuscripts, and they have gone through and put their god's false name in many manuscripts, but our God as Christians- never had a 'personal name' he has many names and titles, but one of the great differences between the Christian God and all other gods is that the Christian God never gave His personal Name.

 

[J0Y]

I have a book which is acclaimed in understanding and relating to people of other faiths. It helps you to understand other faith foundations in relation to Christianity. So I suggest that if you contributed to this thread and have some interest in knowing more - search the net for a copy of:
SHARING THE TRUTH IN LOVE: How to relate to people of other faiths - by Ajith Fernando. ISBN: 1-57293-054-3
It is easy reading, completely practical and an awesome resource!

 

[Elijah3]

Allah is the arabic word for God but Allah is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Allah is the god of the muslims, taoists, buddhists, hindus and catholics.

 

[above]

Allah is the arabic word for God but Allah is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Allah is the god of the muslims, taoists, buddhists, hindus and catholics.

Probably the biggest nonsense I have read in my entire life. And I have read a lot.
You start off right: "Allah is the god of the muslims." but everything from there is just plain wrong.

Taoists don't even worship a god. They believe in the spiritual ghosts of their ancestors and the scriptures of Confucius, a chinese philosopher.

Buddhists also don't actually worship any sort of god, they worship a system. Buddha himself is not seen as a god but as a teacher who opened the eyes of the people.

Hindus believe in a whole bunch of gods, most importantly Vishnu, Shiva and Kali.

And Catholics... well just read the bible.

The point I am making is: If you really meant what you said, you are either very uneducated or very stupid. I hope you are just uneducated, because at least you can do something about that.

 

[Pineapple]

Allah is the arabic word for God but Allah is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Allah is the god of the muslims, taoists, buddhists, hindus and catholics.

Err...WHAT?

 

[Sharp]

Well, I've added a poll to this thread, because I like polls. It encompasses all options discussed thus far.


I just want to add, 2 Corinthians 11:14, "And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light". I think it was Satan who spoke to Muhammad, not the archangel Gabriel.

 

[Ryan1976]

I often wonder this.

Muslims believe that they worship the God of Abraham, the God spoken of in the Torah.

We know that as Christians, we worship the God of the bible.

Obviously the islamic faith is wrong, as they do not accept that Jesus is God, and are not saved. But are they worshiping the same God we are? Just in a distorted, incorrect and futile manner? Surely not.

I think that islam is an invention of satan, who has a keen interest in seeing it spread. The question is, is the 'God' that muslims claim to worship really satan?

I would say that the Muslims worship the same God as do the Jews worship the same God that we Christians do. However they worship who they do not know wherein, because we, unlike jews and muslims, know the Son and worship who we do know.

So, though we all worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, only one group KNOWS the Father because of the Son - Christians.


But I'll just throw this on the table for all to consider. Instead of looking out across the street, into your neighbor's house. You might want to take a look at your own house. You would do well to ask yourself if Christians believe in and know the same God as do other Christians.

The Jesus of the pre-trib rapture is different than the Jesus of the post-trip non-rapture Jesus and so on. This Jesus does and says and means different things because what we take the verses that support those doctrines to say and mean, are different.

The Jesus of the baptism that is merely a symbol is different than the Jesus of a coming out party, is different from a sacramental baptism. Why? Because these three or four Jesuses do and say different things.

I'll illustrate my point.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

Now, some say that Jesus is saying, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of the Spirit. When I (Jesus) say water I merely mean being born by natural birth. Think of the water breaking before labor."

Another says, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of Heaven unless he is born of the Spirit and when I say water it's only a symbol for my death. When you are baptized I'm not actually saying that it's a requirement even though I said it was a requirement."

A yet another says, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit." (that one belongs to Jesus)

Same goes for nearly every aspect of Christianity that we are aware of. The Jesus whose presence is in the Eucharist is different than the Jesus whose presence is absent in the Eucharist. The Jesus whose flesh and blood actually become the bread and wine is different from the other two Jesuses. and so on and so on...

The Jesus who says the Church is a body of believers despite their conflicting views is different than the Jesus who says that the Church is not merely the body of believers but those who actually belong to him is different than the Jesus who says the Church is Roman Catholic or a body of believers who hold a certain doctrinal view or the Jesus that says the Church is infallible because the body of Christ is infallible is different from the Jesus that says the body of believers are fallible but they still make up my body and somehow become infallible insofar as they are right but insofar as they are wrong they are not the Church etc.

We have a gazillion Jesuses saying and doing and meaning and believing conflicting things.

So the same applies to Christianity. Christians are worshiping the same Christ but only those that KNOW Christ are actually true worshipers.

Choose wisely.



God bless you on your journey toward God.

 

[Baptistrw]

I would say that the Muslims worship the same God as do the Jews worship the same God that we Christians do. However they worship who they do not know wherein, because we, unlike jews and muslims, know the Son and worship who we do know.

So, though we all worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, only one group KNOWS the Father because of the Son - Christians.


But I'll just throw this on the table for all to consider. Instead of looking out across the street, into your neighbor's house. You might want to take a look at your own house. You would do well to ask yourself if Christians believe in and know the same God as do other Christians.

The Jesus of the pre-trib rapture is different than the Jesus of the post-trip non-rapture Jesus and so on. This Jesus does and says and means different things because what we take the verses that support those doctrines to say and mean, are different.

The Jesus of the baptism that is merely a symbol is different than the Jesus of a coming out party, is different from a sacramental baptism. Why? Because these three or four Jesuses do and say different things.

I'll illustrate my point.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

Now, some say that Jesus is saying, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of the Spirit. When I (Jesus) say water I merely mean being born by natural birth. Think of the water breaking before labor."

Another says, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of Heaven unless he is born of the Spirit and when I say water it's only a symbol for my death. When you are baptized I'm not actually saying that it's a requirement even though I said it was a requirement."

A yet another says, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit." (that one belongs to Jesus)

Same goes for nearly every aspect of Christianity that we are aware of. The Jesus whose presence is in the Eucharist is different than the Jesus whose presence is absent in the Eucharist. The Jesus whose flesh and blood actually become the bread and wine is different from the other two Jesuses. and so on and so on...

The Jesus who says the Church is a body of believers despite their conflicting views is different than the Jesus who says that the Church is not merely the body of believers but those who actually belong to him is different than the Jesus who says the Church is Roman Catholic or a body of believers who hold a certain doctrinal view or the Jesus that says the Church is infallible because the body of Christ is infallible is different from the Jesus that says the body of believers are fallible but they still make up my body and somehow become infallible insofar as they are right but insofar as they are wrong they are not the Church etc.

We have a gazillion Jesuses saying and doing and meaning and believing conflicting things.

So the same applies to Christianity. Christians are worshiping the same Christ but only those that KNOW Christ are actually true worshipers.

Choose wisely.



God bless you on your journey toward God.

How can Allah be Jehovah when Allah has no son??