Are muslims really worshiping satan?
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I'm not thinking narrow, I'm demonstrating a point. Last time I checked, there is a God mentioned in the bible. He is the God that Christians worship. 'God of the bible' was just a phase I used to refer to the God that Christians worship. You can talk as much as you like about God being the God of the universe and leading people to Christ, but that was not the point of this thread. The point of this thread was to discuss who muslims are actually directing their worship towards.
Yes, God is omnipotent, but that doesn't mean that muslims are praying to God, just because they use the word 'God' or 'Allah' in their prayers. So far no-one here has claimed that there are multiple gods, so I don't know where you got that from. We all know that there is only one God. What I and others are saying is that muslims may think that they are worshiping the same God that we do, but they are actually not. How can they be? They worship a god which they claim has no son. This clearly does not match the description of our God. So whoever they are worshiping, its not our God, and I obviously have my own opinions about who it is...
Lastly, no-one is saying that muslims are beyond salvation. Some people seem to be perceiving this thread as judging and condemning all muslims to hell. Yes, anyone can be saved, provided that they accept Jesus as their saviour, which muslims clearly do not.
Lastly, no-one is saying that muslims are beyond salvation. Some people seem to be perceiving this thread as judging and condemning all muslims to hell. Yes, anyone can be saved, provided that they accept Jesus as their saviour, which muslims clearly do not.
S
Maybe you can better explain the 1st commandment then, because it sounds like you know God better then he does.
We are all called to judge. Even one of the gifts of the spirit is discernment. Paul constantly tells Christians to be watchfull of seducing spirits and false prophets. How else can we do that then to judge all spirits and make sure they are from God.
What you speak here is nothing short of herecy and I recommend you read your bible before spouting off again.
Jesus Christ is the son of God and the only way to heaven period.
We are all called to judge. Even one of the gifts of the spirit is discernment. Paul constantly tells Christians to be watchfull of seducing spirits and false prophets. How else can we do that then to judge all spirits and make sure they are from God.
What you speak here is nothing short of herecy and I recommend you read your bible before spouting off again.
Jesus Christ is the son of God and the only way to heaven period.
Where is the option demons? or the option nothing... Some people thing it is that way.
And btw. the Bible seems to be pretty clear about this point. There is no bigger lier than someone who denies Jesus Christ (or i thought it said that Jesus Christ came into the flesh or something like that).
Well judging them outside of the Bible without the help of Jesus Christ is not my job... But I think there is just seriously something wrong. And I absolutly believe in Jesus Christ and that He is the only way to the Father.
And btw. the Bible seems to be pretty clear about this point. There is no bigger lier than someone who denies Jesus Christ (or i thought it said that Jesus Christ came into the flesh or something like that).
Well judging them outside of the Bible without the help of Jesus Christ is not my job... But I think there is just seriously something wrong. And I absolutly believe in Jesus Christ and that He is the only way to the Father.
L
I can not even begin to see all the holes in your reasoning. If there is but one god. Then how can you worship another god? The very reasoning that they are worshipping someone else is admiting that there is more gods to worship.
And of course you are worshipping the same god, if you say I believe the one all-mighty God. I do believe however that Jesus was a mortal prophet. Then you are still praying to the same god, all though you are clearly not christian as a fundamental thing in christianity is the belief that Jesus is the son of god. But it is still the same God as there is only ONE GOD.
There is only two ways to get around that argument one is that they are worshipping something that does not exist. But that falls on it's own flawed logic, because if you are worshipping nothing, then you are still worshipping god seeing as he is everything.
The other is that they are worshipping satan. But if their aspect of god is satan, then comes the question which one of the millions of different ways to worship THE ONE GOD isn't wrong. Because clearly by your arguments there is only one way to worship, yes wait for it, THE ONE GOD.
And if you want to be arrogant enough to believe that YOU unlike everyone else, unlike even the four gospels can figure out exactly how the proper way to worship god is. Then clearly you should run for papacy and unite all christians in your own new religion. Heresy be ****ed, I'm sure you know better than Jesus' discples what he really meant, I mean it's just been 2000 years since his time. Surely by Gods infinite wisedom he elected you to lead and judge your fellow christians.
And of course you are worshipping the same god, if you say I believe the one all-mighty God. I do believe however that Jesus was a mortal prophet. Then you are still praying to the same god, all though you are clearly not christian as a fundamental thing in christianity is the belief that Jesus is the son of god. But it is still the same God as there is only ONE GOD.
There is only two ways to get around that argument one is that they are worshipping something that does not exist. But that falls on it's own flawed logic, because if you are worshipping nothing, then you are still worshipping god seeing as he is everything.
The other is that they are worshipping satan. But if their aspect of god is satan, then comes the question which one of the millions of different ways to worship THE ONE GOD isn't wrong. Because clearly by your arguments there is only one way to worship, yes wait for it, THE ONE GOD.
And if you want to be arrogant enough to believe that YOU unlike everyone else, unlike even the four gospels can figure out exactly how the proper way to worship god is. Then clearly you should run for papacy and unite all christians in your own new religion. Heresy be ****ed, I'm sure you know better than Jesus' discples what he really meant, I mean it's just been 2000 years since his time. Surely by Gods infinite wisedom he elected you to lead and judge your fellow christians.
L
No there was not. I apologize, I do find it funny though with the accusations that all muslims worship satan and the general contempt that everyone seems to have for anything but their own private sphere of christianity, ****ed as in ****ation is a banned word.
The dictionary suggests:" condemned or doomed, esp. to eternal punishment" so insert those words instead.
The dictionary suggests:" condemned or doomed, esp. to eternal punishment" so insert those words instead.
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Buddy, you're really getting carried away, and you seem to be getting upset by things that haven't even been said. Where have I ever said that I alone know what the proper way to worship God is. I don't want to get into an argument with you about this, but if you're going to discuss this, please don't argue against things that haven't been said. What has been said is that you must accept Jesus as Lord to be saved. If you don't, which the muslims don't, then you're not saved. Worshiping Jesus is not a method or style of practising Christianity. It's not optional. It is the most fundamental aspect of Christianity. So to say that people who worship God but don't acknowledge Jesus are just following God in their own personal way and are saved like the rest of us is ridiculous.
You also said this: "The very reasoning that they are worshipping someone else is admiting that there is more gods to worship".
and this
"if you are worshipping nothing, then you are still worshipping god seeing as he is everything".
That doesn't make any sense at all. I could make up a spirit named Carlo and start worshiping it. It doesn't mean that it exists. Just because a person thinks they are worshiping someone or something, it doesn't mean that they are. Your reasoning says that all worship, regardless of where it is directed, is received by God. So if I bow down and pray to a tree, or a caravan, or the wind, that prayer will still somehow make its way to God? Where in the bible does it say I can worship 'nothing' and still be worshiping God?
You also said this: "The very reasoning that they are worshipping someone else is admiting that there is more gods to worship".
and this
"if you are worshipping nothing, then you are still worshipping god seeing as he is everything".
That doesn't make any sense at all. I could make up a spirit named Carlo and start worshiping it. It doesn't mean that it exists. Just because a person thinks they are worshiping someone or something, it doesn't mean that they are. Your reasoning says that all worship, regardless of where it is directed, is received by God. So if I bow down and pray to a tree, or a caravan, or the wind, that prayer will still somehow make its way to God? Where in the bible does it say I can worship 'nothing' and still be worshiping God?
L
"So to say that people who worship God but don't acknowledge Jesus are just following God in their own personal way and are saved like the rest of us is ridiculous."
The matter of fact is if they worship SATAN. They do not. They worship the same god you do, but in a different way which may or may not lead to them being condemned.
"Where have I ever said that I alone know what the proper way to worship God is."
"So to say that people who worship God but don't acknowledge Jesus are just following God in their own personal way and are saved like the rest of us is ridiculous."
Right there infact...
"That doesn't make any sense at all. I could make up a spirit named Carlo and start worshiping it. It doesn't mean that it exists. Just because a person thinks they are worshiping someone or something, it doesn't mean that they are. Your reasoning says that all worship, regardless of where it is directed, is received by God. So if I bow down and pray to a tree, or a caravan, or the wind, that prayer will still somehow make its way to God? Where in the bible does it say I can worship 'nothing' and still be worshiping God?"
Yes. Yes that is what I'm saying. Or does God not listen to all prayers? Does not God hear everything and is everywhere, have not God created the trees, the caravan and the wind?
And is god not everything including the nothingness, In the beginning where there not emptiness and nothingness untill god created the world?
The very fact that there is only one god means that you can not pray to another god as then there would be two gods. Basic math, not a theological question.
And when you bow down and pray infront of the cross does that not reach God. When people clutch their crucifixes and pray does that not reach God? When children write letters to God do they not reach him? Tell me how can I fail to reach the all-mighty God that listen and knows what is inside my heart whether I lie to myself or not.
The matter of fact is if they worship SATAN. They do not. They worship the same god you do, but in a different way which may or may not lead to them being condemned.
"Where have I ever said that I alone know what the proper way to worship God is."
"So to say that people who worship God but don't acknowledge Jesus are just following God in their own personal way and are saved like the rest of us is ridiculous."
Right there infact...
"That doesn't make any sense at all. I could make up a spirit named Carlo and start worshiping it. It doesn't mean that it exists. Just because a person thinks they are worshiping someone or something, it doesn't mean that they are. Your reasoning says that all worship, regardless of where it is directed, is received by God. So if I bow down and pray to a tree, or a caravan, or the wind, that prayer will still somehow make its way to God? Where in the bible does it say I can worship 'nothing' and still be worshiping God?"
Yes. Yes that is what I'm saying. Or does God not listen to all prayers? Does not God hear everything and is everywhere, have not God created the trees, the caravan and the wind?
And is god not everything including the nothingness, In the beginning where there not emptiness and nothingness untill god created the world?
The very fact that there is only one god means that you can not pray to another god as then there would be two gods. Basic math, not a theological question.
And when you bow down and pray infront of the cross does that not reach God. When people clutch their crucifixes and pray does that not reach God? When children write letters to God do they not reach him? Tell me how can I fail to reach the all-mighty God that listen and knows what is inside my heart whether I lie to myself or not.
I really can't understand why we need three whole pages on this debate. if it is not of God then it is of the anti-christ which is satan, this is not rocket science here it is quoting scriptures, we are not comdemning anyone, we are offering hope through Jesus Christ the way( the only way) the truth ( the only truth), the life ( the only life )
1jo 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.1jo 4:2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:1jo 4:3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
do Muslims Believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh, they may believe that Jesus came in the flesh, we have many jesus's today in Mexico walking around in the flesh not hard to believe this , But did the Christ come in the flesh and was it the Jesus of the new Testament, the oned that died on the cross for the sins of the world, no they don't believe this. can I muslim be save through Jesus Christ, without a doubt
1jo 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.1jo 4:2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:1jo 4:3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
do Muslims Believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh, they may believe that Jesus came in the flesh, we have many jesus's today in Mexico walking around in the flesh not hard to believe this , But did the Christ come in the flesh and was it the Jesus of the new Testament, the oned that died on the cross for the sins of the world, no they don't believe this. can I muslim be save through Jesus Christ, without a doubt
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I don't know what kind of crazy stuff you've been taught up there in Sweden, but the bible says "You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only you shall serve". Worshiping and praying to inanimate objects doesn't count. Of course God can hear you when you bow down and worship a buffalo, God can hear everything. But why would God step in and answer a prayer that you just prayed at a buffalo? What's the point in praying to God then if we can just pray to anything we like and God interprets it as a prayer to Himself and answers it? You have some strange beliefs.
L
Well I'd assume he'd step in and say "Well son, try aiming a bit higher up than a buffalo next time."
What's the point in praying to god. Well obviously it's the best way it's the way of the bible. All I'm saying is just because you pray in a different way doesn't mean you are worshipping Satan.
I am not saying that their way is correct, I am not saying that Muhammed and his Quran is the light and the truth. I am saying that they are worshipping the same God. But in a different way. And whether they are right or wrong is not really the question. But to claim that everyone that doesn't pray the way you do is worshipping satan is condeming pretty much everyone but yourself.
I've said it before. If not even the bible can agree with itself. How can there be a right way to reach God. Obviously we are all trying our best according to our teachings, our beliefs and our personal experiences and it scares me that the Christian Community is so filled with contempt for everyone but themselves.
If you think the muslims are doing it wrong. Reach out to them, with love, with guidance do not accuse them of worshipping Satan. They know very well who Satan is! Their Quran is filled with instructions on how to not fall into his grasp. It's filled with Jesus own words. Though they do not believe him to be the son of god, Well that's their problem and something they'll have to take up with God, it does not mean that they believe in Satan. There's a wide and far gap between being misdirected and heritical.
Show them some love and understanding. After all, what would Jesus do?
What's the point in praying to god. Well obviously it's the best way it's the way of the bible. All I'm saying is just because you pray in a different way doesn't mean you are worshipping Satan.
I am not saying that their way is correct, I am not saying that Muhammed and his Quran is the light and the truth. I am saying that they are worshipping the same God. But in a different way. And whether they are right or wrong is not really the question. But to claim that everyone that doesn't pray the way you do is worshipping satan is condeming pretty much everyone but yourself.
I've said it before. If not even the bible can agree with itself. How can there be a right way to reach God. Obviously we are all trying our best according to our teachings, our beliefs and our personal experiences and it scares me that the Christian Community is so filled with contempt for everyone but themselves.
If you think the muslims are doing it wrong. Reach out to them, with love, with guidance do not accuse them of worshipping Satan. They know very well who Satan is! Their Quran is filled with instructions on how to not fall into his grasp. It's filled with Jesus own words. Though they do not believe him to be the son of god, Well that's their problem and something they'll have to take up with God, it does not mean that they believe in Satan. There's a wide and far gap between being misdirected and heritical.
Show them some love and understanding. After all, what would Jesus do?
L
I think you are mistaking confidence in what we know for contempt. You cannot understand how it's possible for us (or anyone) to know "the right way". All the arguing on our part is not going to convince you.
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."
R
I don't know anything about the muslim faith and frankly I don't want to and I don't know who they worship but the KKK who murdered people because of something so simple as the color of our skin claimed to be God fearing Christians. So what about them? Just a question. Please don't anyone get mad about this question.
L
Not everyone who says they are Christian are Christian. My folks went to church all my life, and they would probably call themselves Christian, but they have no personal relationship with God. If I asked them if Jesus was their Lord and Savior, they would probably not be sure what I was even talking about.
R
I know what you mean. I was just wondering about that. Everyone seems to be missing the point that if it's not of God it will be shown for what it is in due time. I know from life experience if God aint in it then it's not gonna work. Muslims are just another extremist group like the kkk and other nut balls.
well I guess this thread is going toward death, Christian were killed by the jews for their religion, jews were killed for their relgion, Muslims kill for their religion and have been killed for their religion, America was discoveried so some could have religion, alot die that we could have that freedom, then we have the Catholics killing Christian and Christians killing catholics during the crusader days, and then the Catholics killing Christians to stop the english Bible from being translated and KKK claim to kill for their relgion. the question that lies within our religion, must not be have christians ever killed for their religion or has any body ever been killed for their religion But the question that should be asked here is that no matter what has happen to us christians , were they killed by muslims, catholics, hindus, or kkk, skinheads or any other hate groups, the question is can I being A Christian find forgiveness in my Heart so that My Father, up in heaven will forgive me. hey Let's start a prayer thread , for muslims well while we are at it let's just pray for all the lost, that they might come to The Light of the World, Jesus Christ. take our fingers that is pointed at the world and their sins and turn it upward toward heaven, as in praying hands and drop to our knees and Just PRAY for the lost regardless of religion or skin color
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