Are we ready for the catching away of the church?

[popeye]

The "catching away of the church" is a false doctrine that was congealed in 1520AD by Francisco Ribera, popularized by John Nelson Darby in the 1830's and then brought to the front by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins. It is a false doctrine that is going to cause a lot of misery, confusion and loss of belief when the Tribulation occurs and Christ doesn't come in some "secret rapture" and take the church away.

Apparently any "doctrine" outside the historicist view was heresy,but this quote from wiki points to the "jesuit" thinggy as another false postrib reckless desperation;
"In 1590, Francisco Ribera, a Catholic Jesuit, taught "futurism" the idea that most of Revelation was about the future, and therefore, not about the Catholic Church. He also taught that the rapture would happen 45 days before the end of a 3.5 year tribulation."

 

[popeye]

From Jason Hommel's Bible Prophecy Study on the Pre Tribulation Rapture;

False assumption #3. Often it is assumed or claimed that Francisco Ribera invented the pretribulation rapture. But Ribera did not teach the pretribulation rapture, he primarily taught futurism, and an antichrist to come in the future. Admittedly, yes, Ribera did place the rapture 45 days prior to the end of a 3.5 year tribulation, but not 7 years before.

 

[popeye]

There will be a catching away, it's just not before the tribulation as many suppose. When Christ returns at His second coming He will send forth His angles to collect His elect, that is the catching away.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

There are 2 "comings"taught in scripture. The one you refer to is WITH the saints who are already in heaven during the GT. hence "from heaven",not earth,and "by angels" not Jesus

 

[veryelect]

there are many people that do not believe in the "rapture", but there are others who believe in it with all their hearts.
my question is ...
if you believe in it, are you sure you're gonna be caught up to heaven?
if you don´t, what do you think about the term "catching away of the church"


I'll be so grateful if you share your opinion.

People are not going anywhere before the great tribulation. The term 'caught up' in 1st Thessalonians 4:17 actually means 'to seize'. They are seized by force into their spirit bodies. The term 'air' in that same verse means breath of life, which means spirit. It happens at the Trump Of GOD, which is the last Trump or Seventh Trump. That is when this age is over. Read my post '100 percent proof that there is no rapture' and you will see the Biblical proof. Look up the definitions of 'caught up' and 'air' in 1st Thessalonians 4:17 and also read 1st Corinthians 15 for a description of our change at the Seventh Trump.

 

[PlainWord]

People are not going anywhere before the great tribulation. The term 'caught up' in 1st Thessalonians 4:17 actually means 'to seize'. They are seized by force into their spirit bodies. The term 'air' in that same verse means breath of life, which means spirit. It happens at the Trump Of GOD, which is the last Trump or Seventh Trump. That is when this age is over. Read my post '100 percent proof that there is no rapture' and you will see the Biblical proof. Look up the definitions of 'caught up' and 'air' in 1st Thessalonians 4:17 and also read 1st Corinthians 15 for a description of our change at the Seventh Trump.

I generally agree but the 7th Trumpet is when Christ returns. The Last Trumpet is a different trumpet and it's when God the Father returns. There is about 1,000 years between these trumpets. If you read 1 Thes 4:14 you will see that it is God the Father returning here. This is also when the resurrection occurs on the last day of earth. The changing occurs then and not at Christ's return. You will find no passage that discusses a changing associated with the return of Christ.

 

[PlainWord]

As for the OP. The church is not Raptured - it is slaughtered because for the most part, believers who think there is a pre-Trib Rapture go out for Satan believing he is the Christ. These believers are deceived by the unrighteous deception of Satan who comes speaking like a Lamb but is really a dragon.

This removal of the Church is the falling away discussed by Paul. Imagine the world with only 144,000 believers? The world will become so full of wickedness with nothing left restraining evil. The church is seen next in heaven having been deceived and slaughtered as the Great Multitude. Fortunately the gates of hell will not prevail against the church as Satan had hoped. The church is still saved.

The absence of the church on earth prompts Christ to ask if He will find any faith on earth when He returns (Luke 18:8).

 

[Atwood]

As for the OP. The church is not Raptured - it is slaughtered because for the most part, believers who think there is a pre-Trib Rapture go out for Satan believing he is the Christ.

Well, Plain, I didn't see too much WORD in that post aside from your Luke, & I am nor sure just what you mean. & I don't know what proof you could give that the Lord was prompted by the absence of the Church to ask some question.

It is incorrect to say that "The Church is not Raptured - it is slaughtered." For as a matter of fact, since I AD generation after generation of Christians have died without being slaughtered, though there have been martyrs. So they won't be around to be slaughtered in the Trib as they already died long ago. The idea that believers in general (i.e., those who trust Christ as Savior) "go out for Satan" is absurd.

My sheep hear my voice. I give them eternal life, & they shall never perish.

 

[Atwood]

I generally agree but the 7th Trumpet is when Christ returns. The Last Trumpet is a different trumpet and it's when God the Father returns. There is about 1,000 years between these trumpets. If you read 1 Thes 4:14 you will see that it is God the Father returning here. This is also when the resurrection occurs on the last day of earth. The changing occurs then and not at Christ's return. You will find no passage that discusses a changing associated with the return of Christ.

You do make some weird statements plain. There has not been a first advent of the Father; He never became a human being. So there is no return. Of course He is omnipresent.

The trumpet shall sound . . . and we shall be changed.

 

[Atwood]

They are seized by force into their spirit bodies. The term 'air' in that same verse means breath of life, which means spirit.

How do you know that They are seized by force "into their spirit bodies"?
You got proof for

1) into?
2) spirit bodies?
3) air means breath of life?
4) breath of life means spirit?

Quote us a verse where "spirit bodies" occurs.

 

[Atwood]

The "catching away of the church" is a false doctrine that was congealed in 1520AD by Francisco Ribera, popularized by John Nelson Darby in the 1830's and then brought to the front by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins. It is a false doctrine that is going to cause a lot of misery, confusion and loss of belief when the Tribulation occurs and Christ doesn't come in some "secret rapture" and take the church away.

How do you know:
1) it was congealed by Ribera?
2) brought to the front by TH & JJ (I never heard of Jenkins before to my memory),
3) it is false?
4) it is going to cause a lot of misery?
5) it is going to cause confusion?
6) it is going to cause loss of belief?
7) "secret" is a significant factor?

The rapture is a Bible fact;
1 Th 4:17 harpagesometha = rapiemur = we shall be raptured (caught up).
The timing of the Rapture is debated.
The essence of the Trib is debated.
The identity or distinguishing of Rapture & 2nd coming to take over earth -- are debated.
But the Rapture itself, is a Bible fact.

Do you confuse "Rapture" with Pre-Trib Rapture theory?

There is clearly mentioned a Pre-Trib rapture in the Apocalypse of Ephraem aka Apocalypse of Pseudo-Ephraem written in late antiquity or in the early Middle ages.

 

[The_highwayman]

How do you know:
1) it was congealed by Ribera?
2) brought to the front by TH & JJ (I never heard of Jenkins before to my memory),
3) it is false?
4) it is going to cause a lot of misery?
5) it is going to cause confusion?
6) it is going to cause loss of belief?
7) "secret" is a significant factor?

The rapture is a Bible fact;
1 Th 4:17 harpagesometha = rapiemur = we shall be raptured (caught up).
The timing of the Rapture is debated.
The essence of the Trib is debated.
The identity or distinguishing of Rapture & 2nd coming to take over earth -- are debated.
But the Rapture itself, is a Bible fact.

Do you confuse "Rapture" with Pre-Trib Rapture theory?

There is clearly mentioned a Pre-Trib rapture in the Apocalypse of Ephraem aka Apocalypse of Pseudo-Ephraem written in late antiquity or in the early Middle ages.

Are you stating Jesus will come back 3 times?

 

[Atwood]

There will be a catching away, it's just not before the tribulation as many suppose. When Christ returns at His second coming He will send forth His angles to collect His elect, that is the catching away.

What is your proof that angles [sic] who collect the elect are the process of taking them up to a meeting with the Lord in the air? In the Olivet Discourse there is no mention of the Church & no rapture.

What is your proof that "gathering" means rapture?

 

[passinthru]

1 Tes. 4:13-18

" But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught UP together with them in the CLOUDS, to meet the Lord in the AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

Did anyone respond to this?

 

[Atwood]

I believe in it and I am ready

Well, sassy, IMHO that is the important thing to focus on: Christ may return at any moment, & we should be ready.

You can argue about pre-, mid-, & post-toasties, but however you figure it out, expect Him at any moment.

It is possible to be a post-toastie & yet believe that the Rapture is any moment imminent. It is possible to be a preterist (consigning the Trib to long past history) and believe in an imminent rapture. But what is poor theology is to think you KNOW that Christ cannot return now, He can't come back for some years.

And what is disgraceful is to get arrogant & condemning of other Christians for disagreeing with you over eschatological details.

 

[Atwood]

Are you stating Jesus will come back 3 times?

What I am stating is

The rapture is a Bible fact;
1 Th 4:17 harpagesometha = rapiemur = we shall be raptured (caught up).
The timing of the Rapture is debated.
The essence of the Trib is debated.
The identity or distinguishing of Rapture & 2nd coming to take over earth -- are debated.
But the Rapture itself, is a Bible fact.

There is clearly mentioned a Pre-Trib rapture in the Apocalypse of Ephraem aka Apocalypse of Pseudo-Ephraem written in late antiquity or in the early Middle ages.

How do you know:
1) it was congealed by Ribera?
2) brought to the front by TH & JJ (I never heard of Jenkins before to my memory),
3) it is false?
4) it is going to cause a lot of misery?
5) it is going to cause confusion?
6) it is going to cause loss of belief?
7) "secret" is a significant factor?

Do you confuse "Rapture" with Pre-Trib Rapture theory?

But now I add:

Where does scripture limit the times the Lord Jesus can move from Heaven to earth? Have you put him in your box, limiting his omnipotence & freedom of will?

 

[The_highwayman]

What is your proof that angles [sic] who collect the elect are the process of taking them up to a meeting with the Lord in the air? In the Olivet Discourse there is no mention of the Church & no rapture.

It is quite possible Butch is using the parable of the wheat and the tares to stand upon.

Matt 13.24-30 and then Jesus explains the parable in Matt 13.37-42

 

[Atwood]

It is quite possible Butch is using the parable of the wheat and the tares to stand upon.

Matt 13.24-30 and then Jesus explains the parable in Matt 13.37-42

Where does Mat 13 say that the gathering together by angels is a catching up to a meeting in the air with the Lord? Where does "Church" occur in Mat 13? Where does "catching up" occur in Mat 13?

 

[The_highwayman]

What I am stating is

The rapture is a Bible fact;
1 Th 4:17 harpagesometha = rapiemur = we shall be raptured (caught up).
The timing of the Rapture is debated.
The essence of the Trib is debated.
The identity or distinguishing of Rapture & 2nd coming to take over earth -- are debated.
But the Rapture itself, is a Bible fact.

There is clearly mentioned a Pre-Trib rapture in the Apocalypse of Ephraem aka Apocalypse of Pseudo-Ephraem written in late antiquity or in the early Middle ages.

How do you know:
1) it was congealed by Ribera?
2) brought to the front by TH & JJ (I never heard of Jenkins before to my memory),
3) it is false?
4) it is going to cause a lot of misery?
5) it is going to cause confusion?
6) it is going to cause loss of belief?
7) "secret" is a significant factor?

Do you confuse "Rapture" with Pre-Trib Rapture theory?

All you did was re-post the Greek word for taking away.
I am asking you directly...are you stating Jesus will come back 3 times?

Here is something else to chew on....

One of the greatest lies Satan could deceive millions of Christians with is this:

The beast comes to power and millions of Christians say: "Wait,this is not the anti-Christ, because Jesus has not come back yet." The Beast then deceives millions.

I do not confuse anything, but I will state that I look forward to his return and ask the Holy Spirit to guide me and teach me.

 

[passinthru]

I think we have all heard pre-trib, mid-trib and cases for no rapture as it has been taught. Some feel it has already happened . All seem interesting and I do lean toward pre - trib ,,,,, look here: The Rapture - Brief History and Speculation

Regardless of who is right on this topic I know where I am going.,,,,even if not when.
The guy on the street that does not know Jesus as his savior may step into eternity tonight. We as the Church have been commissioned to "Go ye into all the world....." So does it really matter that much as far as the Rapture goes?

 

[The_highwayman]

Where does Mat 13 say that the gathering together by angels is a catching up to a meeting in the air with the Lord? Where does "Church" occur in Mat 13? Where does "catching up" occur in Mat 13?

Pay attention to what I posted, I stated it is quite possible that butch is using Matt 13, I never stated I agreed with him, because I don't.