My dear Popeye, what am I going to do with you
???
Of course there is the holy Jerusalem in heaven. Of course I know that. But there is also a Jerusalem on earth too, right? I don't think I need to show you passages proving the existence of the earthly Jerusalem. So the question becomes, (since you have it wrong), which Jerusalem, or more accurately, which Zion, is John discussing in Rev 14:1?
You say its the heavenly Sion. I say it's the earthly Sion. Let's each make our case.
The CASE for Zion of Rev 14:1 being on earth:
1) " [SUP]2 [/SUP]And I heard a voice from heaven..." Where is John when he hears this? If he was in heaven he wouldn't have said that he heard the voice from heaven.
2) "These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes." Where are they going? Where are the 144K following the Lamb to, different parts of heaven? What is the purpose of the 144K escorting Jesus through various parts of heaven? Do you have a theory about this?
My view is the 144K are the ones mentioned below with Christ. They are on earth to execute judgment and to convict ungodly men.
Jude 1:[SUP] 14 [/SUP]Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, [SUP]15 [/SUP]to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”
Are these ten thousands of saints the same as the 144,000 saints? I am thinking they are because we see what's next in Rev 14. First the warning is given to worship the correct God. Then Babylon falls. Then this:
“If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, [SUP]10 [/SUP]he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
I think the 144K are here to do battle. But we are going to have to agree to disagree like we do on so many timing issues.
???Of course there is the holy Jerusalem in heaven. Of course I know that. But there is also a Jerusalem on earth too, right? I don't think I need to show you passages proving the existence of the earthly Jerusalem. So the question becomes, (since you have it wrong), which Jerusalem, or more accurately, which Zion, is John discussing in Rev 14:1?
You say its the heavenly Sion. I say it's the earthly Sion. Let's each make our case.
The CASE for Zion of Rev 14:1 being on earth:
1) " [SUP]2 [/SUP]And I heard a voice from heaven..." Where is John when he hears this? If he was in heaven he wouldn't have said that he heard the voice from heaven.
2) "These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes." Where are they going? Where are the 144K following the Lamb to, different parts of heaven? What is the purpose of the 144K escorting Jesus through various parts of heaven? Do you have a theory about this?
My view is the 144K are the ones mentioned below with Christ. They are on earth to execute judgment and to convict ungodly men.
Jude 1:[SUP] 14 [/SUP]Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, [SUP]15 [/SUP]to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”
Are these ten thousands of saints the same as the 144,000 saints? I am thinking they are because we see what's next in Rev 14. First the warning is given to worship the correct God. Then Babylon falls. Then this:
“If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, [SUP]10 [/SUP]he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
I think the 144K are here to do battle. But we are going to have to agree to disagree like we do on so many timing issues.
