BAPTIST BIBLE POLL ON RAPTURE (OTHERS ARE WELCOME)

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P

PlainWord

Senior Member
#101
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
#101
popeye said:
Neither do I think you make a good case for Babylon.

It says the earth was made rich with her products.
And the nations drank of her fornication.

You have an insurmountable dilemma right there.

Some of your deal fits,but it is more indirect than major.

That is where you bog down,in playing your deal out. Much of it is a huge leap,and folks must leap with you.
Click to expand...
My contention is that the "earth" as discussed by John in Revelation is referring to the Muslim society. You cite two clues but there are so many that fit perfectly and even the two you cite fit if you accept the earth as the Muslim earth. The Muslim merchants have gotten rich selling the items listed below to Mecca, the Harlot's City. Google some pictures of Mecca now and the money that is being poured into building that city. The Saudis buy these gaudy things as well as they deal in slavery. The below verse makes clear that slavery is involved and as I've said before, Saudi Arabia is #1 in the world for having slaves today.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]merchandise of gold and silver, precious stones and pearls, fine linen and purple, silk and scarlet, every kind of citron wood, every kind of object of ivory, every kind of object of most precious wood, bronze, iron, and marble; [SUP]13 [/SUP]and cinnamon and incense, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and bodies and souls of men.

Mystery Babylon is a false religion and the Mother of them all. Islam is the largest false religion on the planet with 57 countries having majority Muslim populations. Look at these clues and how Islam fits every one.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication...

The Muslim nations. Fornication is Idol Worship or false worship. This is saying the false worship of Islam is angry (wrath), so angry that they kill because of their beliefs. The product (wine - fruits of their worship) is anger. The wine of Christianity is Love. The Muslim nations have consumed the anger of Islam.

...the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her...

Indeed Muslims have the most kings and they follow Islam. Therefore the "Muslim" kings worship Allah.

I've identified 62 clues given for Mystery Babylon. There isn't one that does not fit, some haven't happened yet so we can't be sure but none of the 62 listed can be ruled out. You may have to scroll over to the right to see Islam.

[TABLE="width: 830"]
[TR]
[TD]Item #[/TD]
[TD]Descriptions (meanings) of the Harlot and the Beast She Rides[/TD]
[TD]New York City/America Capitalism/Greed[/TD]
[TD]Rome/Roman Catholic Church[/TD]
[TD]Jerusalem/Israel/ Judaism[/TD]
[TD]Mecca/Islam[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]Great Harlot (Great False Religion)[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]Sits on many waters (Many Peoples/Nations Worship Her)[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Kings of Earth Fornicate (Royalty worship and support the False Religion)[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]Earth Made Drunk with Her Wine[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]Located in the Wilderness (Desert - Isolated)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]Sitting on a Scarlet Beast/Sinful Kingdom (False Religion supported by Evil Nation(s))[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]Full of names of blasphemy (The False Religion insults God)[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]Having seven heads and ten horns (Is directly of Satan Rev 12:3)[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]Arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls (Royalty)[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]In her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT (like the former Babylon)[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS (Biggest of all False Religions)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH (Most offensive to God)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]Drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]John marveled with great amazement (Did not recognize her)[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]Beast was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit (Existed in Past, Left, Comes Back)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]Beast will go to perdition (Already condemned to hell)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]The unsaved will marvel when they see the Beast that carries the harlot[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]The seven heads are seven mountains (7 Kingdoms) on which the woman sits[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is (Rome), and the other has not yet come (Future)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]And when he (7th) comes, he must continue a short time.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]The beast is the eighth (Evil Kingdom), and is of the (previous) seven, and is going to perdition[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]The ten horns are ten kings (Leaders) who have received no kingdom as yet (Do not lead a nation)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]10 horns (Leaders) receive authority for one hour as kings (leaders) with the beast[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]These will make war with the Lamb[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]26[/TD]
[TD]the Lamb will overcome them[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]27[/TD]
[TD]The waters, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. (multinational/lingual)[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]10 horns (Leaders) which you saw on the beast (Kingdom), these will hate the harlot (their religion)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]29[/TD]
[TD]10 Horns (Leaders) make Harlot (False Religion) desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose (Destroy the Harlot- False Religion)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]31[/TD]
[TD](10 Leaders) give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled (Harlot destroyed)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]The woman (Harlot - False Religion) is a great city[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]33[/TD]
[TD]This Great City reigns over the kings[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]34[/TD]
[TD]Christ or God comes to earth and declares, "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen"[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]35[/TD]
[TD]Harlot (False Religion) has become a dwelling place of demons (Worshiping Satan)[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]36[/TD]
[TD]Harlot (False Religion) has become a prison for every foul spirit (all evil)[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]Harlot (False Religion) has become a cage for every unclean and hated bird (Demon)[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]38[/TD]
[TD]All the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication (participated with her)[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]39[/TD]
[TD]The kings of the earth have committed fornication with her (worshiped this False Religion)[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]40[/TD]
[TD]Merchants have become rich through the abundance of her luxury (profited by her excessive spending)[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]41[/TD]
[TD]Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and receive of her plagues (Jews live in her lands)[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]42[/TD]
[TD]Her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities (So bad got God's attention)[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]43[/TD]
[TD]Repay her double according to her works (God will inflict twice the harm this religion caused)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]44[/TD]
[TD]I sit as queen, and am no widow (False Religion claims to have a Husband)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]45[/TD]
[TD]Her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine (God's punishment is swift)[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]46[/TD]
[TD]Harlot will be utterly burned with fire (possibly nuked)[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]47[/TD]
[TD]Kings who worshiped this false religion will weep when she burns[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]48[/TD]
[TD]Kings stand at a distance for fear of her torment (they don't want same fate)[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]49[/TD]
[TD]‘Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! (False Religious City Destroyed swiftly)[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]50[/TD]
[TD]Merchants will weep and mourn over her, for no one buys their merchandise anymore[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]51[/TD]
[TD]Merchandise list that was being sold to Harlot similar to that of Tyre (Ezek 27)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]52[/TD]
[TD]All who travel by ship stood at a distance (Harlot City near busy sea lanes)[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]53[/TD]
[TD]When they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, ‘What is like this great city?’[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]54[/TD]
[TD]They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing. (jewish/Muslim Tradition)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]55[/TD]
[TD]All who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth![/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]56[/TD]
[TD]Rejoice over her you holy apostles and prophets, for God has avenged[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]57[/TD]
[TD]a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]58[/TD]
[TD]Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]59[/TD]
[TD]harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard (Music call to worship similar to Dan 3)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]60[/TD]
[TD]Your merchants were the great men of the earth[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]61[/TD]
[TD]by your sorcery (Trickery) all the nations were deceived[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]62[/TD]
[TD]in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


You take all of this and add in the fact that Israel is completely surrounded by a sea of Muslim nations which hate her and take into account that when Israel is attacked, she is attacked by Muslim nations, it all makes sense. Catholics aren't going to invade Israel and they aren't going to start chopping off people's heads either.
 
Last edited:
B

Blessed123

Guest
#102
#102
popeye said:
I am interested in how popular the rapture teaching is in this late hour

1 I am Baptist and believe in a pretrib rapture

2 I am Baptist and believe the rapture is post trib

3 I am Baptist and believe there is no rapture at all

4 I am another persuasion and am pretrib

5 I am another persuasion and am postrib rapture

6 I am another persuasion and there is no such rapture
Click to expand...
1 Matt 24:42-44
 
S

sparkman

Guest
#103
#103
I am interested in how popular the rapture teaching is in this late hour

1 I am Baptist and believe in a pretrib rapture

2 I am Baptist and believe the rapture is post trib

3 I am Baptist and believe there is no rapture at all

4 I am another persuasion and am pretrib

5 I am another persuasion and am postrib rapture

6 I am another persuasion and there is no such rapture

I am Evangelical Free (similar to Baptists) and I believe I'd be categorized as "postribulation rapture" but I would not phrase it that way. I would say that I believe in a pre-wrath resurrection. The wrath of God is poured out on rebellious mankind after the resurrection which occurs at the seventh trumpet.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#104
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#104
sparkman said:
I am interested in how popular the rapture teaching is in this late hour

1 I am Baptist and believe in a pretrib rapture

2 I am Baptist and believe the rapture is post trib

3 I am Baptist and believe there is no rapture at all

4 I am another persuasion and am pretrib

5 I am another persuasion and am postrib rapture

6 I am another persuasion and there is no such rapture

I am Evangelical Free (similar to Baptists) and I believe I'd be categorized as "postribulation rapture" but I would not phrase it that way. I would say that I believe in a pre-wrath resurrection. The wrath of God is poured out on rebellious mankind after the resurrection which occurs at the seventh trumpet.
Click to expand...
Morning sparkman,

So, why do you believe that the resurrection which is followed by the wrath of God, takes place after the 7th trumpet?

The resurrection happens prior to the wrath of God being poured out (the seven bowls). Saints will not be subject to the wrath of God. However, the "Great Tribulation" precedes the resurrection.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#106
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#106
Ahwatukee said:
Morning sparkman,

Correction on post #104:

So, why do you believe that the resurrection, takes place after the 7th trumpet? And why do you believe that only the bowl judgments are considered to be God's wrath?

Correction: However, the "Great Tribulation" which is that last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period, occurs after the church has been removed.
Click to expand...
 
P

PlainWord

Senior Member
#107
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
#107
popeye said:
You have chosen well grasshopper

Mat 24 is solid pretrib rapture proof
Click to expand...
Please show me the passage in Mat 24 which contains the Pre-Tribulation (Invasion of Israel) timing for the rapture. Which verse is the Rapture found, or if not found, which verses does it fit between?


24 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all[SUP][a][/SUP] these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences,[SUP][b][/SUP] and earthquakes in various places. [SUP]8 [/SUP]All these are the beginning of sorrows.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. [SUP]12 [/SUP]And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But he who endures to the end shall be saved. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The Great Tribulation

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[SUP][c][/SUP] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), [SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. [SUP]19 [/SUP]But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! [SUP]20 [/SUP]And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. [SUP]22 [/SUP]And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. [SUP]25 [/SUP]See, I have told you beforehand.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. [SUP]28 [/SUP]For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

The Coming of the Son of Man

[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The Parable of the Fig Tree

[SUP]32 [/SUP]“Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. [SUP]33 [/SUP]So you also, when you see all these things, know that it[SUP][d][/SUP] is near—at the doors! [SUP]34 [/SUP]Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. [SUP]35 [/SUP]Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

No One Knows the Day or Hour

[SUP]36 [/SUP]“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven,[SUP][e][/SUP] but My Father only. [SUP]37 [/SUP]But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. [SUP]38 [/SUP]For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, [SUP]39 [/SUP]and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. [SUP]40 [/SUP]Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. [SUP]41 [/SUP]Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. [SUP]42 [/SUP]Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour[SUP][f][/SUP] your Lord is coming. [SUP]43 [/SUP]But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. [SUP]44 [/SUP]Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

The Faithful Servant and the Evil Servant

[SUP]45 [/SUP]“Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? [SUP]46 [/SUP]Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. [SUP]47 [/SUP]Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. [SUP]48 [/SUP]But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’[SUP][g][/SUP] [SUP]49 [/SUP]and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, [SUP]50 [/SUP]the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, [SUP]51 [/SUP]and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
#108
Jun 11, 2013
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#108
All Pre-tribbers, see the below. Go with the clear teaching, not some man-made contrived interpretation that isn't there.

Son of Man.jpg
 
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popeye

Guest
#109
#109
PlainWord said:
Please show me the passage in Mat 24 which contains the Pre-Tribulation .......... Which verse is the Rapture found, or if not found, which verses does it fit between?
Click to expand...
[SUP]36 [/SUP]“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven,[SUP][e][/SUP] but My Father only. [SUP]37 [/SUP]But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. [SUP]38 [/SUP]For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, [SUP]39 [/SUP]and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. [SUP]40 [/SUP]Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. [SUP]41 [/SUP]Two women will begrinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. [SUP]42 [/SUP]Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour[SUP][f][/SUP] your Lord is coming. [SUP]43 [/SUP]But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. [SUP]44 [/SUP]Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.


there you go grasshopper. Nobody left anywhere post flood/post judgement.
Remember,lot and noah are used to illustrate the gathering.

How in the world can people get it wrong????
 
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popeye

Guest
#110
#110
PlainWord said:
All Pre-tribbers, see the below. Go with the clear teaching, not some man-made contrived interpretation that isn't there.

View attachment 148468
Click to expand...


What do you guys do with rev 14? (you experts that peddle that "one coming" concept )

What is it? Jesus in a cloud gathering the ripe fruit DURING THE GT.

Could Jesus be wrong about the man on a cloud?????
lets see. Does he touch earth? Is this the 1.5 coming?????

ooooops,back to the drawing board.
 
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popeye

Guest
#111
#111
BTW plainword,

I do believe rev 14 messes up your deal also.

You erroneously place the rapture after the millennium,but we have several gatherings before the millennium.

Are you aware that you now have the dead in christ rising 3rd or fourth?
 
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popeye

Guest
#112
#112
we shall call rev 14 the utility chapter..

So many false concepts have died on that little jewel

LOL
 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
#113
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
#113
popeye said:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven,[SUP][e][/SUP] but My Father only. [SUP]37 [/SUP]But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. [SUP]38 [/SUP]For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, [SUP]39 [/SUP]and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. [SUP]40 [/SUP]Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. [SUP]41 [/SUP]Two women will begrinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. [SUP]42 [/SUP]Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour[SUP][f][/SUP] your Lord is coming. [SUP]43 [/SUP]But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. [SUP]44 [/SUP]Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.


there you go grasshopper. Nobody left anywhere post flood/post judgement.
Remember,lot and noah are used to illustrate the gathering.

How in the world can people get it wrong????
Click to expand...
I refer you back to my post #108 and then ask you the same question. How can you get this wrong? :eek::eek:

Were Lot and Noah snatched off the planet and whisked away to heaven?

Who were the ones in trouble in Noah and Lot's day? The wicked, right? The wicked in Noah's day were partying and mocking him as he was building the ark. I don't even want to discuss what the wicked in Lot's day were doing. But neither group of wicked had any clue about what was coming and when. So it will be when the Son of Man returns. Fast forward to our times. The wicked are going to be swept away (taken) just as they were in Noah's day.

The action, warning or threat is for the wicked, not the righteous. The only action mentioned is being taken. It is the being taken that is being warned upon the wicked. The analogy Jesus makes here is the same he makes in Mat 13:

Mat 24: [SUP]40 [/SUP]Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.

Mat 13: [SUP]38 [/SUP]The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. [SUP]39 [/SUP]The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. [SUP]40 [/SUP]Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. [SUP]41 [/SUP]The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, [SUP]42 [/SUP]and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. [SUP]43 [/SUP]Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Can you now see that the field is the world in both passages and that the ones taken are the wicked just as they were in Noah's day?

Mat 13: [SUP]30 [/SUP]Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

Those left are gathered (not raptured) into the barn/kingdom. The Son of Man comes and snatches away the wicked and takes them to the "body" but the righteous are gathered just as He says here:

Mat 24: [SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

GATHER - GATHER from the field in both passages. Wheat = Elect. They are gathered. The Tares are gathered and removed. You have a gathering and removal of the wicked and just a gathering of the righteous. The righteous are gathered and remain in the kingdom to shine forth like the sun. See below:

...and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend.

Those gathered and taken away from the kingdom are the Sons of Canaan.

Zec 14: Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the Lord of hosts. Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them. In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

The thorns are removed from Israel. Then Israel will dwell safely in their Land as was promised.

Eze 28: [SUP]24 [/SUP]“And there shall no longer be a pricking brier or a painful thorn for the house of Israel from among all who are around them, who despise them. Then they shall know that I am the Lord God.”

AGAIN -

WICKED GATHERED TO THE BODY TO BE BURNED
RIGHTEOUS GATHERED BACK TO THEIR LAND TO LIVE IN PEACE

The warning in Mat 24 is for the wicked. They are the ones in jeopardy.
 
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popeye

Guest
#114
#114
Planet?

Now you invoke "planet"

Any analogy overworked implodes into itself.

Besides,one FACT,that FITS,is Noah carried over a mile into the atmosphere in the ARK (a type of heaven),is never,ever initiated by anti-pretribs ,and yet you use planet ,oblivious to a known fact.
 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
#115
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
#115
popeye said:
What do you guys do with rev 14? (you experts that peddle that "one coming" concept )

What is it? Jesus in a cloud gathering the ripe fruit DURING THE GT.

Could Jesus be wrong about the man on a cloud?????
lets see. Does he touch earth? Is this the 1.5 coming?????

ooooops,back to the drawing board.
Click to expand...
During the GT??? Jesus doesn't return during the GT. He comes after it, just as Mat 24 clearly teaches, "Immediately after the Tribulation of those days" etc.

Follow the correct timing. What does Jesus (not me) teach happens upon His return?

Mat 13: “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn..."

The tares are gathered and removed from the Kingdom (in Israel) first. They are taken to the Body where the Eagles have gathered. Luke 17 tells us where the ones in the field are taken. Mat 24 doesn't say, you have to go to Luke 17. The disciples are asking where the taken ones are going? Guess what? It isn't heaven.

[SUP]36 [/SUP]Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”[SUP] 37 [/SUP]And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”
So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”

The wicked are taken from the field to the BODY. What body you ask? Why the Man of Sin of course, your AntiChrist.


Why are you attempting to overlap Rev 14 and Mat 24? Rev 14 picks up where Mat 24 leaves off. In Mat 24 Jesus returns, His angels remove the wicked and gather back His ELECT to the LAND (of Israel - now expanded to the boarders promised Abraham). Rev 14 picks up now with Jesus having returned. I will put the verses together for you in chronological order.

Mat 24: [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev 14: Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads...These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Jesus returns and gathers the ELECT 144K to Him and they are seen together on Mount Zion. The Battle to retake Israel has been won. The Man of Sin has been destroyed by the Brightness of His coming. The burned BODY is outside of Jerusalem. The Tares, still alive, have been taken to the Body of the Man of Sin.

Dan 11: [SUP]45 [/SUP]And he shall plant the tents of his palace between the seas and the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and no one will help him.

Eze 28:[SUP] 18 [/SUP]“You defiled your sanctuaries By the multitude of your iniquities, By the iniquity of your trading; Therefore I brought fire from your midst; It devoured you, And I turned you to ashes upon the earth In the sight of all who saw you.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you; You have become a horror, And shall be no more forever.”’”

2 Thes 2: [SUP]8 [/SUP]And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

Now a warning goes out to the entire planet, to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people.

Rev 14: “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”

Everyone is warned that God's Wrath has come (present tense). The first thing God does in His Wrath is He destroys the capitol city of ISLAM, that Great Harlot religion which is called Babylon. The city destroyed is MECCA. The destruction of MECCA is a warning to all Muslims to stop worshiping ALLAH and to stop following the BEAST EMPIRE which has been supporting (carrying) ISLAM. The ships stand far off in the Red Sea and watch MECCA burn and they are afraid to come near.

Jesus is the Angel mentioned at the start of Rev 18. Jesus is the only Angel which illuminates the whole earth. Jesus has the Great Authority to rule over earth. No other angel can do this.

Rev 18: After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And he cried mightily with a loud voice, saying, “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen...

Rev 18: [SUP]10 [/SUP]standing at a distance for fear of her torment, saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgment has come.’

Those (Muslims) on ships want no part of God's judgment which came upon MECCA, the City of the Harlot ISLAM, so they stand far off. Then the 3rd angel thus warns.

“If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, [SUP]10 [/SUP]he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

Notice the future tense? He shall be burned, not burned yet. Muslims everywhere are warned not to follow the beast, not to accept his mark. All Muslims have been removed from Israel at this point but they have not yet been judged and sentenced. They are given this last chance from our long suffering God to turn away from Allah, turn to the real God and repent.

The war between good and evil now on a global level continues as we see and we pick it back up. Kings will be executed during the Day of the Lord.

Rev 14:[SUP] 12 [/SUP]Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”

Saints are still dying as we see above. Their works follow them as their reward is still in the future. If you turn to 1 Cor 15 you see that the LAST enemy Christ defeats is death. Evil is finally removed, Satan is chained, the 1,000 year reign is underway. The resurrection has not yet happened. Saints are living in the expanded Israel with Christ ruling for 1,000 years.

Rev 20: [SUP]7 [/SUP]Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison [SUP]8 [/SUP]and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.

The 1,000 years are now up. Satan has been released to deceive the world again. Satan has with him an enormous army of deceived.

Rev 20: [SUP]9 [/SUP]They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city.

Let's stop here and set the table for the grand finale. Christ with the Saints are ruling over the planet for 1,000 years. The rest of the world living outside of Israel have been honoring the Lord and they come up once a year to pay tribute (Zec 14). Satan was chained but is now released. The world outside of Israel is deceived yet again and Satan leads a massive army of the wicked to again attack Israel. Daniel teaches that at this time, Michael stands up.

Dan 12: “At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time.

Here comes the RESURRECTION. The dead are raised first.

Dan 12: And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

1 Thes 4: that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

God then comes down from heaven with all the souls to receive their glorified bodies.

1 Thes 4: [SUP]14 [/SUP]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

Jesus raises up the bodies and goes up in the clouds to meet the Father coming down. Now comes the RAPTURE. Here it is right now, it is not before the Tribulation of Israel. Jesus already came back and reigned. This is where Rev 14 concludes.

1 Thes 4: [SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Rev 14:[SUP] 14 [/SUP]Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. [SUP]15 [/SUP]And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” [SUP]16 [/SUP]So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.

So all the saved are in the clouds. So then we see what happens to the wicked.

Rev 20: And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. [SUP]10 [/SUP]The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Notice that the angel with power over fire deals with the wicked who came up against Israel after Satan was released.

Rev 14: [SUP]18 [/SUP]And another angel came out from the altar, who had power over fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, “Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe.” [SUP]19 [/SUP]So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

You then have the Great White throne and all wicked are judged and sentenced to the second death. Christ has defeated death so there is no more dying, up til now there still was dying as Rev 14:13 teaches.

Rev 21: [SUP]2 [/SUP]Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”[SUP] 5 [/SUP]Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.” [SUP]6 [/SUP]And He said to me, “It is done!

IT IS DONE. Forget about the Rapture while you are alive dear Popeye as you will not see it. You and I will be among the souls who return with God, the Father after the Millennium. You might be alive to see the Second Coming of Christ, however. This is how I see it. No other order makes sense.

Abomination of Desolation
Scattering of Israel
Man of Sin attacks Israel (Great Tribulation)
Man of Sin defeats Israel
Man of Sin claims to be above all called God
Man of Sin kills those who won't worship or serve his Beast Kingdom
Relative Peace
Sign of Christ appears in heaven
Christ returns
Mecca Destroyed, Man of Sin killed, Muslim forces in Israel defeated and taken to body to be killed
ELECT gathered back to Land to be with Christ and to follow Him everywhere He goes
1,000 year reign
Satan loosed to deceive
Final battle over Israel
Resurrection
Rapture
Wicked condemned
New Jerusalem
 
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popeye

Guest
#116
#116
PlainWord said:
I refer you back to my post #108 and then ask you the same question. How can you get this wrong? :eek::eek:

Were Lot and Noah snatched off the planet and whisked away to heaven?

Who were the ones in trouble in Noah and Lot's day? The wicked, right? The wicked in Noah's day were partying and mocking him as he was building the ark. I don't even want to discuss what the wicked in Lot's day were doing. But neither group of wicked had any clue about what was coming and when. So it will be when the Son of Man returns. Fast forward to our times. The wicked are going to be swept away (taken) just as they were in Noah's day.

The action, warning or threat is for the wicked, not the righteous. The only action mentioned is being taken. It is the being taken that is being warned upon the wicked. The analogy Jesus makes here is the same he makes in Mat 13:

Mat 24: [SUP]40 [/SUP]Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.

Mat 13: [SUP]38 [/SUP]The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. [SUP]39 [/SUP]The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. [SUP]40 [/SUP]Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. [SUP]41 [/SUP]The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, [SUP]42 [/SUP]and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. [SUP]43 [/SUP]Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Can you now see that the field is the world in both passages and that the ones taken are the wicked just as they were in Noah's day?

Mat 13: [SUP]30 [/SUP]Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

Those left are gathered (not raptured) into the barn/kingdom. The Son of Man comes and snatches away the wicked and takes them to the "body" but the righteous are gathered just as He says here:

Mat 24: [SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

GATHER - GATHER from the field in both passages. Wheat = Elect. They are gathered. The Tares are gathered and removed. You have a gathering and removal of the wicked and just a gathering of the righteous. The righteous are gathered and remain in the kingdom to shine forth like the sun. See below:

...and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend.

Those gathered and taken away from the kingdom are the Sons of Canaan.

Zec 14: Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the Lord of hosts. Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them. In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

The thorns are removed from Israel. Then Israel will dwell safely in their Land as was promised.

Eze 28: [SUP]24 [/SUP]“And there shall no longer be a pricking brier or a painful thorn for the house of Israel from among all who are around them, who despise them. Then they shall know that I am the Lord God.”

AGAIN -

WICKED GATHERED TO THE BODY TO BE BURNED
RIGHTEOUS GATHERED BACK TO THEIR LAND TO LIVE IN PEACE

The warning in Mat 24 is for the wicked. They are the ones in jeopardy.
Click to expand...
Rev 14?

You skipped it.

What now?

Does not fit your deal..
 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
#117
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
#117
popeye said:
Planet?

Now you invoke "planet"

Any analogy overworked implodes into itself.

Besides,one FACT,that FITS,is Noah carried over a mile into the atmosphere in the ARK (a type of heaven),is never,ever initiated by anti-pretribs ,and yet you use planet ,oblivious to a known fact.
Click to expand...
Noah is lifted above the earth in the ark. At this time there are no tall mountains. The land mass is a single land mass, a single Super Continent called Pangaea. After the Flood the Land (continent) was divided, in the Days of Peleg. This is what the planet looked like before and after the Flood.

Super.jpg

When the Land was divided and broken up, the plates slammed into each other creating the tall mountains that are seen near the plate boundaries. The sub continent of India slamming into Asia (for example) created the Himalayas and of course Mount Everest. The below link shows how this happened. It's really cool. Watch it.

Dive and Discover : Plate Tectonics : Breakup of Pangea

This is why Noah's Ark will never be found on Mt. Ararat in Turkey.
 
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popeye

Guest
#118
#118
We have Jesus gathering live saints during the GT in rev 14.

Even if you transpose it into your deal,your obstacle is that in YOUR TIMELINE, Jesus would be on earth,not heaven.

1thes 4 WOULD REQUIRE the dead be raised prior to Rev 14.

You are not even close.
 
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popeye

Guest
#119
#119
PlainWord said:
Noah is lifted above the earth in the ark. At this time there are no tall mountains. The land mass is a single land mass, a single Super Continent called Pangaea. After the Flood the Land (continent) was divided, in the Days of Peleg. This is what the planet looked like before and after the Flood.

View attachment 148508

When the Land was divided and broken up, the plates slammed into each other creating the tall mountains that are seen near the plate boundaries. The sub continent of India slamming into Asia (for example) created the Himalayas and of course Mount Everest. The below link shows how this happened. It's really cool. Watch it.

Dive and Discover : Plate Tectonics : Breakup of Pangea

This is why Noah's Ark will never be found on Mt. Ararat in Turkey.
Click to expand...
You got to be kidding!!!!

READ THE ACCOUNT.

You are way,way off.

The mountains are impossible to miss in the story.

You haven't read it have you?
 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
#120
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
#120
popeye said:
You got to be kidding!!!!

READ THE ACCOUNT.

You are way,way off.

The mountains are impossible to miss in the story.

You haven't read it have you?
Click to expand...
The mountains weren't as tall pre-flood as they were after the plates shifted, a hundred years or so after the Flood. Of course there were mountains pre flood, they just weren't as tall as they are today. It is in the geographic record. You can go read about it.
 
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