Calvinism taking over Southern Baptists

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J

Jda016

Guest
#101
#101
Spokenpassage said:
Who said God desired people to go to hell? I did not say that at all. If the Christian isn't suppose to be happy about that, why would God be happy with that?

I'm just reading the scriptures as its meant to be read. I am not trying to add any doctrine, nor am I supporting a man made doctrine. I can point out scripture for all the points, but it's up to you whether you believe it or not.

You are using two verses, one of which is from Timothy which doesn't surprise me because there in the second book a verse concerning election too! :)

2 Timothy 2:10 NAS

"For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal glory."

You can read this in context, so from what I'm hearing is that Paul was persecuted for the elect, so that they may obtain salvation in Christ Jesus and with eternal glory....

........how do you reconcile this verse? :)
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I have heard many Calvinists say God desires people to goto hell for His glory. After all, if he picks some to goto Heaven, then the logical conclusion is that he picked the rest to goto hell.

Romans does the same thing as Timothy. After Paul talks about election, he then goes on to talk about choices that affect our salvation.

Romans 8:13-14 " For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God."

This implies choice again.

in regards to Timothy, the very next couple of verses after 2:10 imply choice again. :)

11 This is a faithful saying:


For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.

I have always seen the "elect" as the people of God who respond to Him through faith. Not as a predetermined group of people that God forced to choose Him.

Blessings! I think I need to goto bed soon. Good talking with you!
 
S

Spokenpassage

Guest
#102
#102
Wrong chapter in Romans bro! :p

Hey take it easy, good talking with you too!
 
J

Jda016

Guest
#103
#103
Spokenpassage said:
Wrong chapter in Romans bro! :p

Hey take it easy, good talking with you too!
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Even if it be the wrong chapter, it still implies choice. =)

it also seems to me all of Romans was written at one time and it all flows together.
 
J

Jda016

Guest
#104
#104
Even in Romans 2 we get a very strong implication of choice in regards to eternal life.

Romans 2:5-10
New King James Version (NKJV)
5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:[a] 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
 
D

directline2iam

Banned
#105
Jul 25, 2013
1,329
19
0
#105
dcontroversal said:
Better yet, out of all baptisms recorded in scripture it seems obvious that they were all ADULTS and if infant BAPTISM is so IMPORTANT AND BIBLICAL WHY DID JESUS WAIT till he was almost 30?
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How in the world was John the baptist sapose to baptize Jesus when He John was only 6 months old when Jesus was born? Moses was baptized as an infant in a basket in the Nile river, gonna deny that scripture too? Been through this before, God is no respecter of persons, there is no set age limit for baptism nowhere in scripture. Other than the 8 day old reference of a child comparing circumcision to baptism which speaks quite plainly of the close comparison between the two. Just something note worthy the Lord threw in His Word to reinforce infant baptism. But His Word is to be read with an understanding with wisdom from a Loving God. Anyone who wouldn't baptism an infant is cold hearted and don't understand God's love for His creation.
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#106
#106
Jda016 said:
Even if it be the wrong chapter, it still implies choice. =)

it also seems to me all of Romans was written at one time and it all flows together.
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Lol the choice must first be given us (Ephesians 2:1-5), after we are drawn (John 6:44) and born again (John 3:3).

I'll leave a last verse for you to read...Acts 13:48. In no way does any of these scriptures contradict each other :cool:
 
doseofreality

doseofreality

Banned
#107
Dec 9, 2013
753
5
0
#107
Jda016 said:
But of course you are skeptical! You don't believe in God! :D

One instance was when I prayed for my mom who had a very strong UTI. It had been afflicting her for weeks and antibiotics were not working. Nothing helped. I said a very simple prayer with her and the very next day all the pain stopped. It was so bad before that it made her completely anxious and hardly able to sit down for long, but not long after I prayed it completely left her. Even she was surprised as she has a hard time believing for physical healing.

Another time I had a kidney stone. I woke up in the middle of the night with an extreme pain in my left abdomen area. I was completely doubled over as it hurt so bad. I prayed for God to take it away, but nothing happened. The pain increased. Then I stopped praying with just my head, but started crying out to God with my heart. This was real deep prayer, like the woman grabbing onto Jesus' cloak. Suddenly and immediately the pain stopped. No lingering effects at all. I went right back to sleep. First thing when I woke up, I went to the bathroom and the first thing out was a kidney stone about 3cm or so. It didn't hurt at all.
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True, but I was skeptical of "miracle healing" even as a christian.

I've seen too many healing crusades on tv that are complete shams.

I hear of God healing people all the time yet I can't find one documented piece of evidence of an actual physical healing that is the direct cause from God/prayer.

Your accounts certainly seem to be answers to your prayers, I can't refute the possibility that God relieved the pain when you asked. However, would you consider the possibility of other explanations for the pain going away in each case?
- People with UTI can recover without treatment in a few weeks, also sometimes anti-biotics can take up to 36 hours to take effect.
-- Pain from kidney stones is known to occur in waves, it is possible you simply had a wave of pain then it went away on its own.
 
J

Jda016

Guest
#109
#109
doseofreality said:
True, but I was skeptical of "miracle healing" even as a christian.

I've seen too many healing crusades on tv that are complete shams.

I hear of God healing people all the time yet I can't find one documented piece of evidence of an actual physical healing that is the direct cause from God/prayer.

Your accounts certainly seem to be answers to your prayers, I can't refute the possibility that God relieved the pain when you asked. However, would you consider the possibility of other explanations for the pain going away in each case?
- People with UTI can recover without treatment in a few weeks, also sometimes anti-biotics can take up to 36 hours to take effect.
-- Pain from kidney stones is known to occur in waves, it is possible you simply had a wave of pain then it went away on its own.
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It is possible, but I still believe it was God who did it. Either way, prayer happened, then deliverance came.

my mom's close friend's daughter Brittany (who i have known since she was a little girl) went to a youth conference when she was a teenager. She had bad eye sight and wore contacts. During worship her eyes suddenly became blurry and she had to take out her contacts to find that she could see perfectly. Sometimes even just in worship God will do miracles.

I do agree there are many charlatans out there, but even if God never healed me again, I would still trust in Him, because ultimately I love for what he did for me at the cross. I also believe that afflictions can refine us and purify us, by building character, christ likeness, and integrity, if we let them.
 
O

oldernotwiser

Guest
#111
#111
i have always had trouble with the idea of "double predestination." i cant accept that god would simply condemn most of humanity to eternal punishment in spite of their never having heard the gospel. i have had extreme calvinists argue that unsaved infants would be condemned to hell. i don't believe it. god doesn't burn babies, moloch does that. as far as who goes to heaven and who is condemned, thats a management decision and i'm labor.
 
doseofreality

doseofreality

Banned
#113
Dec 9, 2013
753
5
0
#113
oldernotwiser said:
i have always had trouble with the idea of "double predestination." i cant accept that god would simply condemn most of humanity to eternal punishment in spite of their never having heard the gospel. i have had extreme calvinists argue that unsaved infants would be condemned to hell. i don't believe it. god doesn't burn babies, moloch does that. as far as who goes to heaven and who is condemned, thats a management decision and i'm labor.
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The majority of all mankind have lived and died without hearing the christian gospel, so either most people end up in hell or God judges in other ways and the gospel is not the only way.

You say you don't believe in a God who burns babies...why not, if its biblical?
Is what God does dependent on what man thinks is acceptable...seems like people think so.
 
S

svedbygrace

Banned
#115
Jan 21, 2013
2,004
23
0
#115
CEF said:
How many people believe in Calvinism and why?
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Its the Gospel, if one does not believe in Calvinism, in particular the Truths of TULIP , then they don't believe the Truths of the Gospel of the Grace of God !
 
A

Alligator

Guest
#116
#116
svedbygrace said:
Its the Gospel, if one does not believe in Calvinism, in particular the Truths of TULIP , then they don't believe the Truths of the Gospel of the Grace of God !
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are you kidding? Calvinism doesn't even resemble the gospel of Christ.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#118
Nov 24, 2012
30,709
3,651
113
#118
Crucify Calvin!!!

Is this the new mantra? sheesh.

Anyone here got perfect doctrine?
 
A

Alligator

Guest
#120
#120
kayem77 said:



Romans 3:11
there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.And I will raise him up on the last day.



Unless you are the exception to these verses, and you are the only one that chose God without God first intervening. Faith is also a free gift.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
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romans 3:11 does not say what you claim it says. It does not say that no one CAN seek God.

Second Thessalonians 2:14 says that we are drawn by the Gospel. That is how God draws us to him.
 
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