Calvinists,Im Asking...

[NoNameMcgee]

because im new to fellowship i dont know these terms

but i believe the Word of God

every "denomination" i have tried to look into seems to add to or take away from the Word


i believe it literally and over any man
if someone goes to a greek or hebrew translation

i believe they believe what they say

but a literal interpretation of the bible trumps anyone elses understanding or teaching


i too will go to greek or hebrew here and there
but i dont have as much faith in translations i find on Google as i do in Gods inspired and preserved word



(posted this before reading, going to read all of the posts.... good thread and ty for making)

 

[kaylagrl]

Usually people will say calvinists are people who hold to the 5 tulip points, and reformed hold to covenantal theology too along with other things.

Personally I don't have a problem with calvinists calling themselves reformed, I do think it's better term, I wish reformed theology was just called biblical theology but unfortunately that's not so.

I'm not your usual calvinist as I don't believe in a lot of things other calvinistic believers do, like for example in eschatology, I don't hold an ammileanist position, but that's not required for one to be called reformed.

Some have issues with baptism as well, where presbyterias believe in paedo baptism, as I'm a baptist myself, I believe in credo baptism.

There's also those who believe gifts have ceased these days, I don't believe that myself, I believe spiritual gifts are still for today but maybe not the way it's seen in some charismatic churches.

And also I'm a creationists, I align with a young earth view, where I believe most reformed folks hold to an old earth view, some with the gap day theory.

Anyway there are disagreements even among reformed folks, what I did was just to show where I differ from them and what they believe mostly.

So I will admit I have a lot of misunderstandings. I was not trying to accuse you or put words in your mouth. So Im going to try and word my questions differently or just ask is this what you mean or not.

Now the TULIP belief is totally new to me.Heard it here first.I have Calvinist friends and never heard this talked about. Shoot I have a pastor friend of the family and we attend his church on special events and never heard the TULIP theology.

You're going to have to go slow with me here. I googled ammileanist and found nothing.Can you give me an answer to that?


Id agree with you in Baptism.I haven't been to many churches that agree with child baptism other than Catholic or the United Church,which is in Canada but Im not sure if they are in the US.


We'd agree on the gifts too,as I am Pentecostal,but I believe it must be done in order.I wouldn't agree with a lot that goes on in all lot of Pentecostal churches,and there are many independent types of churches that can basically be a free for all. I disagree with those.

Hey! We agree there too.I really hated science in school. I think I was intimidated by it. A few years ago I began reading a lot of apologist materials and I think I believe in young earth also.

I understand there are differing beliefs,as I said with Pentecost,people think I agree with certain things that I do not believe. United Pentecostal is almost totally different from what I believe.

 

[PrynceNY]

And if you read forward it says whoever doesn't believe in Jesus is condemned already, Jesus was talking to a jewish teacher, a master of the law, they believed salvation was for the jews only, in that context world means not only jews but also gentiles, that's what Jesus is saying, if world meant everyone who ever lived or will live, everyone would be saved, and we know that's not true, some have perished and some will perish, you don't wanna be a universalist now do you?

No one said everyones saved. Christ gave his life for all so "whoever" believes in him may have eternal life.It's like people who follow your beliefs ignore parts of scripture. Everyone acknowledges every person wont go to Heaven. It's a choice.

 

[Marano]

So I will admit I have a lot of misunderstandings. I was not trying to accuse you or put words in your mouth. So Im going to try and word my questions differently or just ask is this what you mean or not.

Now the TULIP belief is totally new to me.Heard it here first.I have Calvinist friends and never heard this talked about. Shoot I have a pastor friend of the family and we attend his church on special events and never heard the TULIP theology.

You're going to have to go slow with me here. I googled ammileanist and found nothing.Can you give me an answer to that?


Id agree with you in Baptism.I haven't been to many churches that agree with child baptism other than Catholic or the United Church,which is in Canada but Im not sure if they are in the US.


We'd agree on the gifts too,as I am Pentecostal,but I believe it must be done in order.I wouldn't agree with a lot that goes on in all lot of Pentecostal churches,and there are many independent types of churches that can basically be a free for all. I disagree with those.

Hey! We agree there too.I really hated science in school. I think I was intimidated by it. A few years ago I began reading a lot of apologist materials and I think I believe in young earth also.

I understand there are differing beliefs,as I said with Pentecost,people think I agree with certain things that I do not believe. United Pentecostal is almost totally different from what I believe.

I believe most reformed are ammileanist, ammileanism says the kingdom of Christ is in the present age already, so what's left is Jesus to come back and take us to heaven, revelation is going on since Christ ascended to heaven, and the millenium reign of Christ on earth isn't literal.

There are postmileniasts also, I myself am a non dispensationalist post trib rapture premileanist.

It would be better if a brother who believes in ammileanism explained to you how and why they believe what they believe, because I don't think I nearly covered everything they believe. I supposed there are some here who whold to that position.

 

[Grandpa]

I gotta find this book that says Christ died only for the elect because it seems as of today no such thing exist.

Who are the elect?

Those that believe, right?

Did Christ die for those who don't believe? In a way, yes. But if a person continues to not believe then Christs death and atonement is not EFFECTUAL for them.

The bible even tells you this explicitly.

John 3:18 [FONT=&quot]He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.[/FONT]

 

[Marano]

No one said everyones saved. Christ gave his life for all so "whoever" believes in him may have eternal life.It's like people who follow your beliefs ignore parts of scripture. Everyone acknowledges every person wont go to Heaven. It's a choice.

So you have to agree with that Christ's sacrifice is only effective for those who believe right? And that's where we disagree you believe Christ died for those who wouldn't believe him also yet those people never got saved, Christ's sacrifice was never effective to them.

No sir, I believe Christ's sacrifice on the cross acomplished the saving of all God intended to save, it wasn't a sacrifice to merely make salvation possible to everyone, he was indeed saving all he intended to save.

 

[p_rehbein]

The Five Points of Calvinism​

There are two mains camps of theology within Christianity in America today: Arminianism and Calvinism. Calvinism is a system of biblical interpretation taught by John Calvin. Calvin lived in France in the 1500's at the time of Martin Luther who sparked the Reformation.
The system of Calvinism adheres to a very high view of scripture and seeks to derive its theological formulations based solely on God’s word. It focuses on God’s sovereignty, stating that God is able and willing by virtue of his omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence, to do whatever He desires with His creation. It also maintains that within the Bible are the following teachings: That God, by His sovereign grace predestines people into salvation; that Jesus died only for those predestined; that God regenerates the individual where he is then able and wants to choose God; and that it is impossible for those who are redeemed to lose their salvation.
Arminianism, on the other hand, maintains that God predestined, but not in an absolute sense. Rather, He looked into the future to see who would pick him and then He chose them. Jesus died for all peoples' sins who have ever lived and ever will live, not just the Christians. Each person is the one who decides if he wants to be saved or not. And finally, it is possible to lose your salvation (some arminians believe you cannot lose your salvation).
Basically, Calvinism is known by an acronym: T.U.L.I.P.

Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)
​

These five categories do not comprise Calvinism in totality. They simply represent some of its main points.

The Five Points of Calvinism, TULIP


I do not accept Calvin's Theology simply because it completely discounts "free will." The basit ideology is that man has ZERO to do with his salvation. Calvin believed that all men are EITHER chosen from the beginning to salvation, or NOT chosen, and, thus, face eternal condemnation regardless of what they say or do.

Some Calvinists will argue with this, but it is the basic ideology of what Calvin asserted. Since his time, there have been some groups that have altered Calvin's ideology with changes here and there, but the still fall short of the Truth of Scripture in my opinion only I suppose.

I firmly believe in "free will," thus I must reject Calvin's ideology.

 

[kaylagrl]

IMHO, not all reformed are Calvinists. Its like higher group and Calvinists are a subgroup.

The reformation was much wider than just the "Calvin or Luther?" (ever heard of the Czech reformation?

But it always depends on the use of the term, whether historically or theologically or how it is used in a common language or in some specific (American) culture etc.

Oh no! Dont throw a wrench in it! I was just beginning to understand!! and no I had heard of the Czech reformation,or I dont think so. I read a thick book on different reformations and important events in Christianity,but I dont recall that.

 

[ForthAngel]

I do not accept Calvin's Theology

Then why are you here trying to represent Calvinists and argue? Thread wasn't for you to say what you think we believe.

 

[kaylagrl]

True, but they tend to be synonymous these days, at least where I am. The reason I don't like Calvinist is because I don't believe everything he ever said or wrote. Whereas with reformed theology, which should rightly be called biblical theology like Marano said, takes the emphasis off of a long past dead man and puts it back on scripture and God.

​So you are like Marano?You're not whole hog on Calvinism? Some points you disagree on?

 

[Ariel82]

Lol...you Took a big bite with your questions.

Good luck with it all.

I suggest holding off on discussion of amillenial theology since he admits to not believing in it....basically it's a way to read Revelation, you will get into more terms like preterist,futurist, rapture, post millenial,pre millenial, etc.

Trying to learn what the term Calvinist or reform means should be hard enough without adding that discussion to it.

 

[trofimus]

Oh no! Dont throw a wrench in it! I was just beginning to understand!! and no I had heard of the Czech reformation,or I dont think so. I read a thick book on different reformations and important events in Christianity,but I dont recall that.

Ok, ok... I am silent... pssst

 

[Marano]

I can't believe we've been here discussing the reformed faith and calvinism and no one mentioned the 5 solas.

Sola scriptura: All authority on faith and belief must be conformed to scripture.
Sola fide: Only by faith.
Sola gratia: Only grace, it's by grace alone that we are saved.
Solus Christus: Through Christ only are we saved.
Soli Deo gloria: Glory to God alone.

These are very important to understand when talking about the reformed faith too.

 

[trofimus]

I can't believe we've been here discussing the reformed faith and calvinism and no one mentioned the 5 solas.

Sola scriptura: All authority on faith and belief must be conformed to scripture.
Sola fide: Only by faith.
Sola gratia: Only grace, it's by grace alone that we are saved.
Solus Christus: Through Christ only are we saved.
Soli Deo gloria: Glory to God alone.

These are very important to understand when talking about the reformed faith too.

I was thinking about it, but then I realized that it is not specifically about Calvinism... It applies to Lutherans etc too...

 

[ForthAngel]

​So you are like Marano?You're not whole hog on Calvinism? Some points you disagree on?

I agree with all of TULIP.

As far as eschatology, I haven't got a view. Someone out of one of the many camps is gonna be right though. I'll just wait and see which one

If anything, I'm a partial preterist.

I am a cessationist which he has an opposing view on. I haven't seen ample evidence to believe otherwise, but I don't discount the fact that God may choose in certain circumstances to use a revelatory gift, but if it happens it would be extremely rare. I know that scripture teaches that in these last days God has spoken through his Son and we know start to finish, so the canon is sealed.

 

[PrynceNY]

So you have to agree with that Christ's sacrifice is only effective for those who believe right? And that's where we disagree you believe Christ died for those who wouldn't believe him also yet those people never got saved, Christ's sacrifice was never effective to them. No sir, I believe Christ's sacrifice on the cross acomplished the saving of all God intended to save, it wasn't a sacrifice to merely make salvation possible to everyone, he was indeed saving all he intended to save.

Direct scripture says otherwise countless times but you can believe what you desire

 

[kaylagrl]

Before the foundation of the world, God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the holy spirit designed a plan that would bring glory to the God the Father through creation, He did that so that He would have a people to be called His own and designed it that way and for Him to be glorified in the process.

Jesus' death on the cross and redeeming us wasn't an afterthought to Adam sinning in the garden of Eden, it was God's plan all along that things would happen that way, and He did things as to maximize the glory He receives from His creation, all the evil in the world isn't meaningless, it all has a purpose and you can believe me or not, but even actions intended as evil by men are intended for good by God, as Paul said was the case in Jesus going to calvary, it was the result of actions by 4 groups of people, yet God had designed that to be the means by which Christ would die and redeem us, yet He's still just and punishes evildoers for their actions, even if God intended them for good.

In the reformed faith, salvation is a work of the triune God: God the Father elected us to be saved, Jesus the Son died in our place and received the just compensation for our sins and the holy spirit works in those who God the Father elected and those people then believe in Christ and his work at calvary, no one can believe if the holy spirit doesn't convict them first.

This may seem like an odd question but do you believe the Jews are chosen people? Or how do Calvinists view that? or Reformed.

 

[lonestar26]

So you have to agree with that Christ's sacrifice is only effective for those who believe right? And that's where we disagree you believe Christ died for those who wouldn't believe him also yet those people never got saved, Christ's sacrifice was never effective to them.

No sir, I believe Christ's sacrifice on the cross acomplished the saving of all God intended to save, it wasn't a sacrifice to merely make salvation possible to everyone, he was indeed saving all he intended to save.

Is salvation/election "available" to all who believe?

 

[trofimus]

This may seem like an odd question but do you believe the Jews are chosen people? Or how to Calvinists view that? or Reformed.

Oh no! Everybody for guns!

 

[p_rehbein]

The Article was from a Calvinist website..........NOT what I think they believe.......what they say they believe.

The thread asked for opinions..........and, given what Scripture actually says, I'd say mine was far more Scriptural than what Calvin taught.

Then why are you here trying to represent Calvinists and argue? Thread wasn't for you to say what you think we believe.